English Devolution

[IC1967]

I'd like to thank the Scots for the massive service they have done England today. Dave has decided to bring in more powers for England to go hand in hand with the powers being transferred to Scotland. Soon we will have English only MP's voting on certain English only matters instead of having foreign MP's in particular the Scots voting on English affairs that have nothing to do with them.

This is seriously going to weaken Labour as they won't be able to rely on foreign MP's to get what they want through parliament. Labour are resistant to this change because they are quite happy for other regions of the UK to have more power than England as they rely so heavily on foreign MP's. Mr Milliband better be careful. If he goes into the next election opposing this change he will lose a lot of English and Scottish support because if he doesn't agree then the transfer of powers to Scotland will be delayed and they will have broken their infamous 'vow'.

[scaley back rover]

It looks a good bet

[Wild Rover]

I'd like to thank the Scots for the massive service they have done England today. Dave has decided to bring in more powers for England to go hand in hand with the powers being transferred to Scotland. Soon we will have English only MP's voting on certain English only matters instead of having foreign MP's in particular the Scots voting on English affairs that have nothing to do with them.

This is seriously going to weaken Labour as they won't be able to rely on foreign MP's to get what they want through parliament. Labour are resistant to this change because they are quite happy for other regions of the UK to have more power than England as they rely so heavily on foreign MP's. Mr Milliband better be careful. If he goes into the next election opposing this change he will lose a lot of English and Scottish support because if he doesn't agree then the transfer of powers to Scotland will be delayed and they will have broken their infamous 'vow'.

Now then owd fruit, all you said there was a rehash of same thing spoken about to William Hague at 09.00,10.00,11.00 and midday ( and probably since ). So unfortunately its not your own words really.

[IC1967]

Not claiming they are my own words. They are Dave's. Not seen Mr Hague but I'm glad he sees it like me. I would lay claim to the bit about Labour being all my own work but would not be at all surprised if other politicians see it the same way as it is obvious that this is and will be the situation.

[Wild Rover]

No, as he ( Mr Hague ) said them first, or had them said to him ( Ref Labour ) prior to your piece, by some 7 hours, you cannot lay claim to any of those words.

[RedJ]

you cannot lay claim to any of those words.

What else is new?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Typical Cameron. This is a historic, watershed moment for the governance of this country. To think that this can be sorted out by a back room committee led by a serial failure of a politician is simply ridiculous. These are decisions that will affect all of our lives for generations and there MUST be a detailed and democratic debate throughout the country, followed by a democratic mandate for the change.

I have long wanted regional devolution in our country. So let's debate how best to have this. Let the debate start now. And not be rushed through by a weak PM who knows he had to placate his backbenchers to survive.

[IC1967]

Its got to be rushed through now as he has linked English devolution to the promises made to the Scots. If he doesn't get it sorted quickly then the Scots will be seriously pissed off and will vote accordingly at the general election for the SNP en masse and provoke another In Out referendum.

[River Don]

I agree with that BST

Big changes have been promised and it needs to be done properly. If they're devolving power to Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland, then they must do the same for the regions. Those regions are still even to be defined.

And if all this power is being devolved out of Westminster into the regions then shouldn't the make up of Westminster be transformed and made smaller?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I don't give a flying f**k what Cameron has announced this morning. He is playing party politics to placate his backbenchers and that is not going to fly. There will NOT be a decision on devolution in English matters before May next year. You cannot rush through something as fundamental as this. Cameron doesn't have a majority in Westminster and he will not be able to push this through.

There is only ONE reason why Scottish devolution and English devolution should be linked. That is to get Cameron out of an impossible position within the Tory party. He hasn't got a chance in hell of pushing this through, and the very fact that he is even floating it shows that he is a man who puts his party position before the good of the nation.

[IC1967]

If he doesn't push it through and sticks to linking it to the promises made to the Scots then there are going to be some very angry Scots. The SNP will be able to point out that Westminster has reneged on its promises and we will be having another In Out referendum and this time I think we all know what the result will be.

I don't think he'll be able to deliver. He would need the support of Labour which he isn't going to get.  Labour rely too much on foreign MP's to maintain power. This will backfire on them as the public will rightly deduce that Labour are putting party interest before the good of English devolution. Seems to me that George Osbourne's fingerprints are all over this as he is trying to create a trap for Labour to help the Tories win the general election.

[auckleyflyer]

BST you really want local government!? Donny gate, Rotherham council looked good in the recent scandal!! Backwards thinking Sheffield council have kept that place from being a powerhouse! That's just in our region, but can bet its repeated all over!
no thanks it might be impersonal but Westminster will do for me thanks

[not on facebook]

BST you really want local government!? Donny gate, Rotherham council looked good in the recent scandal!! Backwards thinking Sheffield council have kept that place from being a powerhouse! That's just in our region, but can bet its repeated all over!
no thanks it might be impersonal but Westminster will do for me thanks

Hate to think what would happen to Birmingham in say 50years time ,way the muslim birth rate is pushing voters out Of the womb compared to
A white english family

[BillyStubbsTears]

Auckley

I want strong regional assemblies. It works well in Scotland. It works if you have a big enough pool of talent to choose from. AND if the regional Govt has sufficient delegated powers. One problem with local Govt as we currently have it is that they have little control over income or policy. They are effectively there to implement central Govt policy. But there is little in it to attract dynamic and effective people. So we get second raters. Ask yourself how many people in the current front benches at Westminster have worked their way up through local Govt? Eric Pickles. That's it off the top of my head.

It's not like that in most other countries. They have powerful and dynamic regional politics. They get first-rate people involved at that level. Reagan was Governor of California. Bill Clinton was Governor of Arkansas. George W Bush was Governors of Texas. Carter was Governor of Georgia. Etc etc. whatever you think of their politics, these were highly successful people who worked up through dynamic regional politics. The same applies in most other countries. And it certainly is applying in the case of Scotland. I can't abide Salmond, but he has shown that a regional parliament in a region the size of Scotland can work very well.

There are as many people in Yorkshire as there are in Scotland. There is no reason why we couldn't manage our affairs on a Yorkshire-wide basis equally well.

[River Don]

I do not think the failure of Rotherham should affect our confidence in the region of Yorkshire.

Yorkshire is a brand, it's a brand we can sell to the world. I saw a report that said Yorkshire was potentially a more effective region than Scotland. We should think of Yorkshire like Catalonia or Lombardy.

Yorkshire has a great heritage, football, cricket, wool, agriculture, steel, coal, graft and craft. Today it's engineering and creativity and in Leeds a potential financial centre and York and the countryside a tourist centre.

We should see it as more than a region of the UK but as a recognisable place in the world.

Yorkshire should have confidence in itself and demand a stronger voice in the UK and in Europe.

We know it's Gods own country.

If they want to create regions that have local allegiance and a passion to make things work then Yorkshire must be given autonomy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RD

All true. Unfortunately, we also have professional Yorkshiremen, but you can't have it all I guess.

[River Don]

RD

All true. Unfortunately, we also have professional Yorkshiremen, but you can't have it all I guess.

I have friends who are professional Yorkshiremen and I probably was one. They tend to live in that London.

But I think they would back powers being devolved to the region.

[IC1967]

God help us if we get a regional assembly for Yorkshire and it is stuffed full of lefties. We'd soon be bankrupt.

As far as English devolution goes, I could sort the problem out in 5 minutes. Westminster could double as the English parliament say for 2 days a week. We'd need an English first minister. English only matters would be discussed by English only MP's. They would be responsible for exactly the same as the Scottish parliament.

Sorted.

I can't understand why all the political pundits are saying Dave hasn't left enough time to get it sorted. He's got months to do it. I've done it in less than 5 minutes.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Off you toddle and have a bet on it happening then Mick.

Difficult week always feels better after you've stuck your toe-end up the cat's arse.

[RedJ]

God help us if we get a regional assembly for Yorkshire and it is stuffed full of lefties. We'd soon be bankrupt.

As far as English devolution goes, I could sort the problem out in 5 minutes. Westminster could double as the English parliament say for 2 days a week. We'd need an English first minister. English only matters would be discussed by English only MP's. They would be responsible for exactly the same as the Scottish parliament.

Sorted.

I can't understand why all the political pundits are saying Dave hasn't left enough time to get it sorted. He's got months to do it. I've done it in less than 5 minutes.

Except you didn't do it in less than 5 minutes because it was said on the BBC on the morning after the referendum.

But you knew that, didn't you?

[Dagenham Rover]

And I know what radio station you were listening to this morning     words slightly amended

Sorry Redj we posted about the same time

[IC1967]

I can promise you that my words are all my own work. It doesn't surprise me that other pundits have worked it out the same as me. It's pretty obvious as a solution. Unfortunately Labour are going to have to be dragged along kicking and screaming. They want foreign MP's to still have a say over English only matters because it's the only way they could possibly govern. Talk about putting party interest before the interest of England. The voters aren't so stupid that they'll fall for Labour's delaying tactics. It is easy to see right through them. They will pay a heavy price at the general election if they do delay things. I can't believe they would be so stupid, but then again they are leftie, self serving out of touch fools.

[RedRover45]

Mick.

Are you going to put another £10 k bet on to make your fortune again. Be careful 😉

[IC1967]

Mick.

Are you going to put another £10 k bet on to make your fortune again. Be careful 😉

I'll be putting a large wager on Labour not being the biggest party after the general election. It will be like stealing money. You have been advised.

[auckleyflyer]

David has played a master stroke turning the Scottish devolution into a UK devo mandate! will destroy any unity within the Labour party! this will be to labour what the EU is to the Tories?
It will make for a close race next yr and I wouldn't bet a pound on it nevermind 10K!
Still think Labour will sneek it tho and how any Doncasterian or Yorkshire man would not want a Doncaster MP as PM is beyond me?! its got to be good for the south yorks region?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

David has played a master stroke turning the Scottish devolution into a UK devo mandate! will destroy any unity within the Labour party! this will be to labour what the EU is to the Tories?
It will make for a close race next yr and I wouldn't bet a pound on it nevermind 10K!
Still think Labour will sneek it tho and how any Doncasterian or Yorkshire man would not want a Doncaster MP as PM is beyond me?! its got to be good for the south yorks region?

It would be if he wasn't ineffective.  He trots out the same old lines and his policies lack innovation. I think people will see through that. Especially when it's clear he can't deliver anything people hate about the tories.

Even with labour, cuts will continue its just a matter of how.  Equally the party won't offer anything to do with a Europe ref. Like it or not people want this and it should happen.  I also think that UKIP will take a lot of votes from labour not just the tories

As for devolution. I don't see the regional approach being that favourable or how it would work. It would be too regional and we can't be compared to the usa where states are the size of our country...

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP
BFYP. I'm sure you'll hear that line about our regions being too small trotted out. Mainly by people who are either innumerate, or who think that everyone else is, so they can pull the wool over their eyes. But I thought you dealt with numbers professionally. So you don't have an excuse for getting it so badly wrong.

Population of USA in 2010 census: 308million
Number of States in USA: 50
Average population per state: 6.16million

Median population per state: 4.5million

Smallest state population: Wyoming - 582,000

Population of England in 2011 census 58million

Population of England by region:
South East: 8.6million
Greater London 8.2millon
North West: 7.0million
East: 5.8million
West Mids: 5.6million
South West: 5.3million
Yorks&Humber: 5.3million
East Mids:4.5million
North East: 2.6million

So that's that one put to bed. In fact, when you look at those numbers, it is an obscenity that we don't have strong devolved local politics which allows regional groups if that size to make local decisions on things like transport and taxes. There are very few developed countries where a population of 60million has no sub-level of strong democratic decision making below the full national one, like most of England (outside London) does.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Auckley

Cameron has set a trap alright. And he's stepped straight into it.

As someone on another site wrote last night.

"Parties calling for a considered, not rushed constitutional convention to sort out English devolution: Lab, LD, UKIP, Greens

"Parties calling for the decision to be made by William Hague in private: Con"

The Tories are going to get attacked from all directions in this. And rightly so. They have responded to an astonishing example if participatory democracy in Scotland by proposing that the equivalent process in England should be William Hague and a few other senior politics and telling us what is good for us.

Not a chance in a million that Cameron's plan to ram this through before May will work.

[IC1967]

How anyone can say Dave is rushing things is beyond me. He hasn't even outlined his proposals to make it happen. He's just given a very broad brush idea of what should happen. There would be nothing to stop the process from getting underway right now. I sorted out part of the process in less than 5 minutes on a previous post.

Dave could make a great start by only letting English MP's vote on English matters. The rest could follow in due course. What's so hard about that. I'll tell you, nothing.

Now let's get one thing straight. Labour do not want English MP's to have control of English only matters. This is obvious and they will pay a high electoral price for their attitude. They want a convention etc. that will take many years to do anything. In effect they want to kick it into the long grass because they will be severely weakened by the first part of my strategy.

Labour are pathetic. They are only bothered about exercising power no matter how they do it and no matter how unfair it is on England. We've already got a good example of how unfair the current situation is. Tuition fees were introduced by labour with the support of Scottish MP's. Guess what. In Scotland they don't have tuition fees. Barmy.

Labour better watch out. The Tories have pulled off a master stroke and are now totally certain of winning the general election.

[Filo]

How anyone can say Dave is rushing things is beyond me. He hasn't even outlined his proposals to make it happen. He's just given a very broad brush idea of what should happen. There would be nothing to stop the process from getting underway right now. I sorted out part of the process in less than 5 minutes on a previous post.

Dave could make a great start by only letting English MP's vote on English matters. The rest could follow in due course. What's so hard about that. I'll tell you, nothing.

Now let's get one thing straight. Labour do not want English MP's to have control of English only matters. This is obvious and they will pay a high electoral price for their attitude. They want a convention etc. that will take many years to do anything. In effect they want to kick it into the long grass because they will be severely weakened by the first part of my strategy.

Labour are pathetic. They are only bothered about exercising power no matter how they do it and no matter how unfair it is on England. We've already got a good example of how unfair the current situation is. Tuition fees were introduced by labour with the support of Scottish MP's. Guess what. In Scotland they don't have tuition fees. Barmy.

Labour better watch out. The Tories have pulled off a master stroke and are now totally certain of winning the general election.

Are you as certain. As you were about Scotland voting for independance?