Vlad Putin

[Sprotyrover]

Top bloke! Sent Cameron scurrying back into his kennel with tail between legs.
Sent a couple of knackered old 1950's Bear bomber/recon planes on a couple of sorties around UK and muted in Press that Russia was supplying a dozen knackered old Sukhoi SU 24 Fighters to the Argies...result British Bulldog shites it's self and scurries back into its kennel.

[BobG]

What's this Sproty? Got any links?

I think even the RAF would recognise the value of a Bear and a few SU24's so what happened?

BobG

[RobTheRover]

It was a few weeks ago, Bob.  2 Bears came close to UK airspace, but didnt transgress.  I think a couple of Typhoons were scrambled just in case.  Old Vlad testing our state of alert, no doubt.

[BobG]

Oh. Thanks Rob. I knew about that. Why oN earth all the fuss then Sproty? That's old news, and you've exaggerated its effect anyway.

BobG

[Sprotyrover]

Them rusty old hulks shouldn't be causing any concern but at no cost to himself he has caused us to scramble state of the art Aircraft which probably cost £10k an hour to keep in the air and to look over our shoulder at the Falkands, again the Sukhoi fighters are scrapers but  they can constantly probe Falklands Airspace causing the 4 Typhoons stationed there to rapidly use up their airframe life and God knows how much the running cost are.
And of course he can keep on sending scrap down there, we have to respond with big bucks.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sproty.

Where are the Sukhoi fighters flying from?

[Sprotyrover]

Cheeky t**t is selling em to the Argies for a couple of tons of corned beef!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hmm. Interesting.

[afro goal machine]

Someone would have questions to answer if typhoons weren't sent to intercept and they turned out out to be MIG-28s

[Sprotyrover]

Yes you are right the point is he put 2 piles of junk into the air and they flew around the periphery of the UK causing chaos to the Airspace and causing large numbers of flights to be affected,  costing the UK Tens of £ millions and causing the RAF to scramble expensive aircraft. The point being that Putin has probably got 50 of these things mothballed and can cause chaos several times a week if the mood takes him.
In the war we used to send 2 Mosquittos to drop bombs on berlin most days,Hitler could do naff all and used to throw a right paddy.
Putin has shown the British Government that we are vulnerable and should keep our noses out of his backyard.

[Sprotyrover]

Just done a check on Wicki 55 combat ready!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Putin has shown the British Government that we are vulnerable and should keep our noses out of his backyard.

Well aye.

If we're going to play power politics with the Big Boys, this is the sort of response we have to be prepared for.

What do you want Putin to do? Just accept the West pushing NATO to the boundaries of Russia and say, "No problem Tovarisch! Put your tanks on my lawn and I'll do nowt back to you"?

[Sprotyrover]

Spot on billy we should keep out of this, it's the Yanks who are the villains and we should stop acting like their poodle and tell to wind their Neck in..

[glosterred]

Just done a check on Wicki 55 combat ready!

Wiki's always right isn't it. Would you be happy for these aircraft to fly right over the centre of Donny and us do nowt?

[knockers]

Spoke to the Cornish coastguard today at Rame head and he was saying that last month the Russians had a ship sat right on the edge of free water about 20 miles out. The navy at Devonport sent out one of the big guys to sit right by it. They soon buggered off!!

[Hag]

Planes flying by our shores again yesterday.

We should escort them out when they are close to our airspace, when one crosses over, shoot it down... Russia knows the rules!

Is it only Putin who dare blow his chest out?

[BobG]

Trouble is, if push comes to shove, he's really quite likely to win.

BobG

[glosterred]

Trouble is, if push comes to shove, he's really quite likely to win.

BobG

Trouble is if you don't, he will continue pushing until something does happen that none of us would like.

[glosterred]

Someone would have questions to answer if typhoons weren't sent to intercept and they turned out out to be MIG-28s

Top gun aircraft

[afro goal machine]

Someone would have questions to answer if typhoons weren't sent to intercept and they turned out out to be MIG-28s

Top gun aircraft

;-)

[DonnyOsmond]

They're just testing us out. They do it with aircrafts and ships all the time for years but this time it's been blown out of proportion. They do it with other countries aswell.

At the end of the day, if they touch us or any other NATO country they'll have the rest of NATO on them which they don't want. It's basically a Cold War where everyone's waving their disks around again And very unlikely anything will happen to the West.

[BillyStubbsTears]

At the end of the day, if they touch us or any other NATO country they'll have the rest of NATO on them which they don't want.

This has been the think that has made me panic at 4am on sleepless nights for the past year. And I fear that we are on the edge of the most dangerous period in the past 30 years.

What happens when Putin does to the Baltic States (NATO members) what he's been doing in East Ukraine? Foment unrest among the Russian minorities. Send in troops and arms but claim that he's not doing.

Does NATO send the troops and tanks in and have a shooting war with Russian forces?

Anyone who does excrete seven shades of shite over that has no imagination. It scares me witless.

[bpoolrover]

Why would anyone be happy that Russian planes are in our airspace and as they said cost the uk millions? Don't understand that 1 bit?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool

I don't think anyone is saying they are "happy" about this. What I said was that it was inevitable that a militarily strong Russia would goad us as a response to our support for Ukraine. It's something g we have to expect and be prepared for. And it'd be pretty naive to imagine that NATO jets are not testing out Russian air responses.

Donny Osmond

You say that there will be no effect on the West and this is just Cold War redux. Maybe. But in the Cold War, there weren't NATO countries on the very border of Russia, with substantial Russian minorities living in them. If Putin starts gee-ing up the Russians in Latvia and Estonia and if a Ukraine-esque war breaks out, then in principle, NATO is duty bound to send in American, Canadian, British and other troops to shoot bullets against an enemy that has nuclear weapons. And we have never, ever done that. It scares the living shite out of me.

[DonnyOsmond]

I don't disagree with you. I just don't seem them doing anything because they'll be worried of retaliation. They also might have nuclear weapons but so do USA, UK and France,  I'm sure Putin won't want any heading to Moscow.

Bpoolrover, like BST says, nobodies happy about is but as you said it's costing millions, which will be the same for Russia aswell, a country heading into recession this year. Probably not a smart move and one which will make a war for them less realistic.

So for me, it's worrying but I feel it'd be dumb and suicide for them to do anything, so I'm hoping they'll keep themselves to themselves for now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Donny

I worry greatly about Putin though. Economically, the wheels have come off. But he's still phenomenally popular because he's restored some macho respect to Russia. From Grozny to South Ossetia to the Crimea and Donbass, he's shown that Russia can rein in its neighbours and bend them to its will.

My big worry is that as their economy collapses, he's under pressure to up the ante and continue with his military adventures. And the Baltics are the obvious next step. And he might just consider that he can stare NATO out and make them blink. Or that he can do a quiet subversion job and not give NATO sufficient grounds to intervene.

And he might get it wrong...

[Sprotyrover]

Masses of Russians out in Moskow today in support of Putin,they weren't crowbarred out onto the street and the poor Beeb reporter couldn't find one who wasn't anti USA .
We don't have to worry about the Baltic States the Russian minorities don't feel intimated by a neo nazi regime.
The Ukraine is Russia's back yard,the shenanigans pulled by the U.S. Tosspots last year didn't help matters.
I take my hat off the Angie Merkel and Hollande for standing up to the Yanks who by the way were spying on her private calls last summer.
We as a nation need to wind our neck in.what did the Crimea war have to do with the UK.
We we used to prop up an oppressive regime ,we are being suckered into a similar sittuation now.

[BobG]

Glsterred: you are dead right. I should have made that point. Thank you.

Sproty: we DO have to worry about the Baltic states. We are bound by treaty to provide urgent and sufficient military support if any one or more of them is ever attacked. The definition if 'attack' is the interesting bit there. Now, Putin's economy is going down the tubes. So how is he going to maintain his position when half his people are hungry, cold and unemployed? Same as every other bugger does in that situation. Just think of General Galtieri for one obvious example. And that then puts us right in the shit. if he goes for the 'stir up the minority and deny everything' approach again, then we have a choice of either

a) sitting on our hands thus allowing Russia to immediately destroy NATO's credibility for ever more, and, begin its dismantling, or
b) start shooting

Which option do you fancy?

And don't say 'sanctions'. We've already tried that. We could do more, but unless it gets him out of office pdq, the evidence suggests it's going to just inflame things even more. Desparate despots can be relied upon to do desparate things. That is something we should all fear.

Even flying planes around a bit to show the flag is going to be desperately dangerous. What would we do if one happened to be hit by a SAM battery and the Russians said the plane was 300 yards inside their territory?

What we need is a rational and sensible POTUS with some balls but also some flexibility. You seen any sign of one anywhere at all?

BobG

[Mike_F]

The whole situation is a lethal dick-waving competition. We need strong leaders to act like adults on both sides of the fence to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement. It comes down to the old "power corrupts" adage again. FFS can't we all just agree to live and let live?!

[BobG]

Sort of agree Mike - but it will only ever be on one side of the fence. Putin has both proved his value and behaviour systems now, and, worse, has gone far enough along the road that to back down will be political suicide for him. He is not going to be reasonable. He cannot afford it politically at home, and, why should he given the behaviour of the West and its level of military readiness? He's got all 4 aces and he's going to keep them for some time yet. The question is how long can he survive sanctions before they force him into another overseas adventure to keep the domestic wolves away from his door? I'd be tempted to think about relaxing sanctions right now simply so he can survive without needing to start another foreign adventure. Once he does that, we really are in for a tough time.

Bob