"No" vote in a Greece?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Looks like a landslide from the early results.
http://ekloges.ypes.gr/current/e/public/index.html?lang=en#{"cls":"main","params":{}}

Cat and pigeons. And the whole of Europe a step closer to the edge.

[Filo]

And still Germany are acting the big bully, egged on by France

[Savvy]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/588722/Nigel-Farage-EU-European-Union-Greece

Looks like they've nothing to worry about if they follow Icelands lead.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Savvy

I agree with every word in Farage's article.

Doesn't change the fact that I disagree implicitly with his motives and motivation. The irony is that the EU is currently totally in thrall to precisely the kind of economics that Farage wants. He agrees with the economics of Merkl and the arc of uber-Conservative countries across the Baltic who have done more than anyone to impose the Austerity madness on Europe. He's playing this card on Greece for political reasons - it's an ideological thing, where any excuse to hammer the core EU idea has to be taken, even if it requires you to insult those with whom you agree on much of the economics.

Personally, I currently despise the EU precisely because it has been taken over by an Ordo-Liberal economic madness. I am hoping that today is the first step to the break-up not of the EU, but of the stupidity of this economic model. If this is the first step towards people in Europe rejecting the imposition of an economic model that benefits Germany and a few others whilst hammering everyone else, Europe may yet have a chance to re-emerge as something more than a vehicle for Germany's self-aggrandisement.

[BobG]

Billy. Germany... Consider its geographical position. Consider its ego. Consider its generations old self appointed (annointed?) mandate. Question: is Germany beginning to revert to type?

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bob

My old grandad was a pacifist and a socialist. Worked like a b*****d, looked after his family and his work colleagues. Did a shift down the pit, then a shift in the Union box, then a shift in the Council chamber. And he never had a bad word for anyone; not some of the shirkers that he looked after; not the Tories or the bosses that he argued against.

But he always used to say, "keep your eye on Germany. Don't give them an inch. Smack them down every time they start getting into the driver's seat."

We've let them get into the driver's seat. And they are not picking up the guns this time. But they ARE doing the usual German thing of telling the continent how it has to be, and refusing to consider the possibility (indeed, the sheer certainty in this case) that they might be wrong.

I am genuinely terrified that this German intransigence will take the whole of Europe down. And we'll all be complicit, because we've let them have this position of power.

As I say, it's not bombs and bullets this time. But it could be equally devastating over the next generation.

[Filo]

From a German minister

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/05/eurozone-greece-germany-gabriel-idUSB4N0Z800R20150705


Arrogance at it's best!

[wheatleylad]

I feel for the ordinary Greeks who are facing a terrible mess. However the Germans are not responsible for the Greek economic mess. Years of economic mismanagement by largely socialist governments in Greece have destroyed their economy. They have created a dependence on "free" money from the EU. It is now time to pay the piper and start paying back the huge debts. For years tax dodging was a national sport in Greece whilst they built an increasingly bloated public sector.

One cannot blame the Germans for being unwilling to pour yet more of their money into Greece.

However I do agree with the premise that it is wise to watch Germany. British foreign policy for many years was to oppose the dominant power in Europe. hence war with both Napoleon and the Kaiser.