does football and humanity

[drfchound]

The bombing can be done with great accuracy as proven when taking out the car in which the murderous Jihadi John was in.
Intelligence tells the pilots what the targets are and invariably they hit them.
Unfortunate as it may be there will be some innocent people killed.
Someone said earlier that "the last time this happened wehada world war".
Ask yourself what would the world have been like had Hitler and co not been stopped.

[wilts rover]

Well it will be a bloody desperate situation when they rely on me and you, I think the best place for us is certainly sitting on our arses.

I have said above what I needs to be done. Coordinated military action for a political situation with the involvement of all middle eastern states. Preferably under the banner of the United Nations. And not just in Syria but in all the trouble spots around there, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Afghanistan and especially Yemen.

Military action on its own is pointless. Iraq tells you that, its what happens after the shooting stops that is important.

[Dagenham Rover]

and no doubt they force innocent women and  children into IS training camps and then when we bomb them claim we have hit civilians and look how many we have killed  no of course they don't.................

[Iberian Red]

No doubt the do holders would be happy to let them off.

Can you define do holder,or even do gooder?

[drfchound]

Let's protect our cultured, western, liberal, democratic way of life by interring thousands of people and holding them without trial.

Worked well in Northern Ireland, didn't it...

What do you suggest Billy?

[drfchound]

No doubt the do holders would be happy to let them off.

Can you define do holder,or even do gooder?

I did correct the predictive text didnt I?
I don't need to define what a do gooder is and you know as well as I do what I mean.

[LincsRover]

Well it will be a bloody desperate situation when they rely on me and you, I think the best place for us is certainly sitting on our arses.

I have said above what I needs to be done. Coordinated military action for a political situation with the involvement of all middle eastern states. Preferably under the banner of the United Nations. And not just in Syria but in all the trouble spots around there, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Afghanistan and especially Yemen.

Military action on its own is pointless. Iraq tells you that, its what happens after the shooting stops that is important.

 

Not to mention the mess that is Palestine - most of this trouble started there years ago with the western support of Israel. Sort that out as a starting point and the rest might just be possible. It's a bloody mess right now though and all the bombs in the world will solve nothing, just create more martyrs and more enemies!

[the vicar]

A do gooder  in this case is a pasifist  who wants to do nothing and just let them do what they want to do to us or a sympathiser who thinks we can't do anything to them no matter  what they do to us

[Arksey rover]

Raqqa in Syria, is the headquarters for IS, and if you wipe that off the map, you've effectively "chopped the head off the snake ". IS would be in disarray, and then it would be a whole lot easier to mop up what's left. You have to start somewhere. I don't think folk realise how serious this has been escalating over the last few years. Mark my words, world war three isn't too far off

[BillyStubbsTears]

A sense of proportion Hound. And a knowledge of history.

I suggest you and the rest of us get ready for the long haul. We have brought this situation upon ourselves by generations of mis-management of the Middle East. We have supported tyrants and ignored the suffering and abject poverty of many of the ordinary people. We have fertilised the seed beds that have produced this crop.

This situation took many decades to develop. We will NOT solve it in a few weeks or years. Or maybe even decades. We will certainly not solve it by killing more civilians in bombing campaigns that satiate some of the bloodlust that you see on here, but only stoke up the next generation's fighters. We will certainly not solve it by mass internment - ditto.

I don't have an off-pat answer. Beyond having the resilience to cope with these events without resorting to vendetta responses. Remembering that however many innocent people are killed in the streets of Europe, there are tens, hundreds, THOUSANDS more innocent people who have been killed on the streets of Aleppo, Gaza and Baghdad over the past decade. And that they are people. With kids and parents and brothers and sisters and friends. Just like the poor f**kers in Paris.

So mine is a philosophy rather than a solution. Be prepared for a century of this. Be vigilant and strong. Take out the active terrorists when you can. But do NOT, ever forget that they come from the same human race as you do. Their "people" are as complex, diverse and human as you are. Demanding retribution for its own sake will condemn your grandkids' grandkids to a world where this problem still exists.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Arksey.

Ever tried to deal with a wasps' nest by blowing it up?

[Arksey rover]

no I haven't , but I'm sure if I used a big enough bomb, there wouldn't be a lot left to worry about.

[the vicar]

well said Askern

[Copps is Magic]

I find a good way to fight religious fantasism is a good old education. Not further violence that can ultimately serve to fuel someone's misgiven ideology.

Even within that, there will always be a few nutters who fall through the net. That's what we have with Isis. They need wiping off the map. But we can't blanket bomb a nation, people, or religion to achieve that. We have to be smarter about it. Stop their arms, stop their financers', stop their supply chains and cut off their political counterparts.

An escalation of violence isn't even militarily a sensible strategy from the little I know, let alone an upholding of peaceful values which is what the terrorist attacks were against.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Arksey/Vicar

America dropped 7 megatonnes of TNT on Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. That didn't do the job. How much more would you suggest we drop on Syria?

[Copps is Magic]

Also on the idea of opening up some kind of Guantanamo style detention camp in Europe - Guantanamo has been a rallying call for these nutters for years now and has featured heavily in their propaganda. Its also currently full of people the US government has no idea what to do with.

[LincsRover]

no I haven't , but I'm sure if I used a big enough bomb, there wouldn't be a lot left to worry about.

The point is that if you miss just one or two, the ones you didn't kill would be bloody angry and even if you kill every one of them in the nest, there are billions more wasps in millions of other nests to replace them, and sting you on the arse!!

 

[Sammy Chung was King]

Arksey/Vicar

America dropped 7 megatonnes of TNT on Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. That didn't do the job. How much more would you suggest we drop on Syria?

About 14 megatonnes should rehabilitate them! . It will take a mixture of bombing, and getting other middle east countries to have involvement in sorting the mess out.
They already work closely with groups against IS in Afghanistan, Iraq, they have been training their police forces to better manage things. These people are not a static army, they travel lightly moving from place to place, so intelligence provided by human and drone sources are invaluable.
Keeping our own country safe, aren't i glad they didn't open the border doors fully, we cannot take any migrants in, as much as i feel sorry for them, our country has to come first.

I don't think any of us realise just how hard the undercover people, who stop these plots work, on keeping us safe. I hope this doesn't end up another world war, i am hoping that the other middle east countries recognise the threat this group pose to their countries, otherwise if all the middle east joins together, then it will be the war to end all wars, there would be nothing left!.
One of my worries is the spread of hatred assuming that every muslim is the same. And i also worry about who are the people from the middle east constantly taking over our football teams, car firms etc do they have any links to this group?.

[PDX_Rover]

The US, French and British secret services trained these f**kers to begin with. Time to stop meddling.

[Glyn_Wigley]

No doubt the do holders would be happy to let them off.

Can you define do holder,or even do gooder?

I did correct the predictive text didnt I?
I don't need to define what a do gooder is and you know as well as I do what I mean.

I think he means people who don't have knee-jerks reactions.

[drfchound]

Not sure who you are referring to Glyn, me or Iberian?

[bedale rover]

The only way to deal with "liberation movements" is to isolate the extremists from the moderates who knowingly or unknowingly support them
And the way to do that as was proved malaya by us
Was hearts and minds
Treat them as equals and education

It is the ONLY way

[the vicar]

The US, French and British secret services trained these f***ers to begin with. Time to stop meddling.

It is our business now and we need to meddle

[Arksey rover]

10-15 years ago, nobody had ever hear of IS. Look where they are now, how far they have come. Where will they be in another 10-15 years ?. They are spreading across this planet like a cancer, and if nothing is done to stop them, things will only get worse. I truly believe that the best way to do this ,is to destroy the root of this evil (in they're own country), and if it means dropping a few nukes, carpet bombing, or any other method , then so be it. With all the firepower the west have, I'm sure this could be done in a matter of months. Killing a few thousand civilians is controversial I know, but what's the alternative if it's no nipped in the bud ?. Many more than a few thousand would die if IS had they're way.

[bedale rover]

10-15 years ago, nobody had ever hear of IS. Look where they are now, how far they have come. Where will they be in another 10-15 years ?. They are spreading across this planet like a cancer, and if nothing is done to stop them, things will only get worse. I truly believe that the best way to do this ,is to destroy the root of this evil (in they're own country), and if it means dropping a few nukes, carpet bombing, or any other method , then so be it. With all the firepower the west have, I'm sure this could be done in a matter of months. Killing a few thousand civilians is controversial I know, but what's the alternative if it's no nipped in the bud ?. Many more than a few thousand would die if IS had they're way.

And those that survive will become even more embittered!

[Copps is Magic]

Arksey - There has already been thousands of air strikes in the last year. They are 'carpet bombing' isis.

But the point is their land territory is spread over thousands of kilometers and their ideological territory is spread over the entire planet. What weapons are you proposing we use that actually make sense given these facts? Or do you just want a further blood bath regardless of who it actually hits or what it actually achieves?

[hoolahoop]

The only way to deal with "liberation movements" is to isolate the extremists from the moderates who knowingly or unknowingly support them
And the way to do that as was proved malaya by us
Was hearts and minds
Treat them as equals and educate them.

It is the ONLY way

I couldn't agree more , this is nothing new and it seems that the West generally have learned little from that rare success. However comparing Gaza/Syria/Iraq etc . to Malaysia is like comparing apples to pears and is slightly too simplistic.

The MNLA with it's warlords backed by communist China were fighting against the last vestiges of the British Empire and believe it or not the troubles there lasted from 1948 to 1989.

This is not quite the same scenario but started at a similar time and is set to continue for very much longer.

[hoolahoop]

The US, French and British secret services trained these f***ers to begin with. Time to stop meddling.

Evidence of this or have you been following RT Russia Today ? Next we will have the Illuminati brought into the equation. 

[wilts rover]

Arksey you are correct, 10-15 years ago no-one had heard of ISIS. Thats because they didnt exist, as they were created by doing in Iraq and Afghanistan exactly what you are saying should be done in Syria. Indiscriminate bombing with no thought to what comes afterwards.

[idler]

The only way to deal with "liberation movements" is to isolate the extremists from the moderates who knowingly or unknowingly support them
And the way to do that as was proved malaya by us
Was hearts and minds
Treat them as equals and education

It is the ONLY way

The USA wanted us to help in Vietnam after our success in Malaysia. Our way to win was to treat the native tribes far better than the communists. They reported every move of the Indonesians which gave our SAS troops a big advantage.