Youth v Liverpool on Saturday

[DonnyOsmond]

http://mobile.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/news/article/liverpool-come-to-town-3127315.aspx

It mentions "Interim Head of Youth Ben Mawson"

[CGJ]

Paul Wilson has gone after many years in post.
Reportedly, the position of Academy Manager should meet the higher FA qualification (EUFA A) needed for this position to meet the Rovers aspirations.

[The Red Baron]

May be nothing of significance but I have just seen that Billy Russell has left Hull City.

[Dagenham Rover]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember something was said when DF first came in that he would fetch his own youth set up in

[dickos1]

So a guy who has done the job perfectly well for over a decade is presumably being ditched because of either prickly directors or a prickly manager?

I'd love to hear Paul Wilson's thoughts on things.

Depends how you're defining perfectly well

[RoverAtUni]

I believe now you need a UEFA A License to become an academy manager at a professional club.

[Lifelong supporter]

So a guy who has done the job perfectly well for over a decade is presumably being ditched because of either prickly directors or a prickly manager?

I'd love to hear Paul Wilson's thoughts on things.

Perfectly well!
As in bringing hardly any players through to first team football.
If Billy Russell is available snap him up.

[dickos1]

I've played for both Paul Wilson and Billy Russell, both got rid of me but Russell is in a different league altogether as a coach

[Sammy Chung was King]

A youth manager can only work with the players he has. This fella must have worked hard for the club to be in the position for so long. We haven't had that many come through to the first team, let's not forget that many of our better players in donny, sign for leeds etc, so he works with what is left in the talent pool.
It's like going to a boot sale at twelve in the afternoon, it's been picked over, and though you might still get a bargain, the best deals happened while you were still in bed!.

You have to remember that when he started, the youth system was at virtually nil. Maybe the time was right for a change, but he must have had some input into Middleton, Lund, Mandeville being good enough to now be professionals.
 He probably loved his job with us, it's his livelihood, jobs aren't easy to get in football. He won't have been on life changing money, and will have worked a lot of unsociable hours as all coaches do, so his family life will have also been effected at times.
 Good luck to him, and i hope he is employed again soon, thanks for the hard work over the years!.

[GetDuerdenOn]

Would be interesting to know how our youth teams compared against Liverpool, anybody know the results?

[CGJ]

U11 - Won
U12 - Lost
U13 - Drew 3-3
U14 - Lost 1-2

Both U13 and U14 teams were actually unlucky not to have won their games, putting in good competitive performances and not outclassed in any way. A credit to all involved.

[GazLaz]

Were they playing the actual Liverpool academy?? or one of there development teams?

[CGJ]

Academy. Carragher's lad was in the U13's.

[Lifelong supporter]

So a guy who has done the job perfectly well for over a decade is presumably being ditched because of either prickly directors or a prickly manager?

I'd love to hear Paul Wilson's thoughts on things.

Perfectly well!
As in bringing hardly any players through to first team football.
If Billy Russell is available snap him up.

Do you know how football works?

I'll give you an example of the sort of politics that goes on in youth football from someone I know relatively well.

About three years ago, in his position as youth team manager of a League Two club, he suggested two players to the manager who he believed could 'make it'. Instead, the manager just took a 'no thanks' attitude and said he'd rather have 100k to sign a midfielder from a non-league club.

If you get a manager such as that, who just isn't interested in the youth team, there's not an awful lot you can do.

Paul Wilson has helped bring through many players (especially in recent years) when compared to other clubs. So what if they aren't around in the Football League now? If they're decent human beings, decent people with decent characteristics, that's what matters.

But yeah, lets lynch him. Because folk on an internet forum who've never spent one day inside a football club, always (think they) know best.

I wasn't talking about lynching anyone.
Nor did I realise the youth system was for developing decent human beings.
I thought that's what parents and schools were supposed to do.
Please name me a few players who have come through the system in Wilson's time who have gone on to have good careers.
And surely that's the point of an Academy.
If not, why waste money on a youth system?

[GetDuerdenOn]

Still early days I know but Lund & Middleton are heading in the right direction, Mandeville maybe.

Didn't we get half a million pounds for Husband as well who came from our youth team?

Decent set of results against Liverpool by the look of things as well, looks promising for the future.

[Lifelong supporter]

Rigo,

I've been watching Rovers' youth teams since the 60s and remember Alan Warboys coming through the youth system, saw a fair bit of the youth team when Bremner was first team boss and watched most of the games when Beaglehole took them to the FA Youth Cup final.
But I'll bow to your superior knowledge and wisdom.
Please don't reply because, as you say, I would probably not understand and I wouldn't want you to be long-winded because it took me quite a while to get through your last (presumably not long-winded) answer.
Where I will agree with you is the way the club has tried to camouflage the announcement of his departure.
I thought they were starting to get it right with the appointment of Andrew Watson and his 'open letter'.
Clearly they have a long way to go.
I have nothing against Paul Wilson either.
Just don't think he did a good job.
But, then again, neither did Mickey Walker and he was rewarded with a testimonial.
If Wilson has done ten years maybe he should apply for one as well.

[RedRover45]

Rigo,

I've been watching Rovers' youth teams since the 60s and remember Alan Warboys coming through the youth system, saw a fair bit of the youth team when Bremner was first team boss and watched most of the games when Beaglehole took them to the FA Youth Cup final.
But I'll bow to your superior knowledge and wisdom.
Please don't reply because, as you say, I would probably not understand and I wouldn't want you to be long-winded because it took me quite a while to get through your last (presumably not long-winded) answer.
Where I will agree with you is the way the club has tried to camouflage the announcement of his departure.
I thought they were starting to get it right with the appointment of Andrew Watson and his 'open letter'.
Clearly they have a long way to go.
I have nothing against Paul Wilson either.
Just don't think he did a good job.
But, then again, neither did Mickey Walker and he was rewarded with a testimonial.
If Wilson has done ten years maybe he should apply for one as well.

Who was Mickey Walkers testimonial against ? Don't recall that.

[German Rover]

Rigo,

I've been watching Rovers' youth teams since the 60s and remember Alan Warboys coming through the youth system, saw a fair bit of the youth team when Bremner was first team boss and watched most of the games when Beaglehole took them to the FA Youth Cup final.
But I'll bow to your superior knowledge and wisdom.
Please don't reply because, as you say, I would probably not understand and I wouldn't want you to be long-winded because it took me quite a while to get through your last (presumably not long-winded) answer.
Where I will agree with you is the way the club has tried to camouflage the announcement of his departure.
I thought they were starting to get it right with the appointment of Andrew Watson and his 'open letter'.
Clearly they have a long way to go.
I have nothing against Paul Wilson either.
Just don't think he did a good job.
But, then again, neither did Mickey Walker and he was rewarded with a testimonial.
If Wilson has done ten years maybe he should apply for one as well.

Who was Mickey Walkers testimonial against ? Don't recall that.

Wolves a few years back

[Belle_Vue]

Maybe  Wilson chose to retire?

[Sammy Chung was King]

We tend to find it hard to praise our own club, when it deserves it. We at times seem to have an 'everything is bad' attitude. Our own players i have seen us pull them down really bad, and other teams supporters have said on their forums, ''i wish we had him playing for us, what a player''!.
A lot of us on here, contributed to the youth system at the start, going right back to belle vue, remember the pound coin promotion to help improve it?.
Sometimes one guy can lay the groundwork, and the next guy comes along, does very little and he gets all the praise, because the previous fella, already had the system on the verge of success.

 That's why you get a lot of managers in football, with inflated reputations,. who sometimes get jobs they shouldn't.
Perfect example, Warburton at brentford, rosler laid the groundwork, he just carried on where he left off. It's still to be proven he is a good manager. In the league they have been in rangers, almost anybody could do well in charge. When he goes up against celtic, aberdeen etc, let's see if he really is good or not!.

[GazLaz]

SOD knew the youth system is a waste of money. Far easier and cheaper picking up Premier League youth rejects. They will be a better standard of player as well. Our youth system is an absolute myth, too many bigger clubs around to compete with. Bringing your own youth players through is a romantic fantasy of clubs and fans.

The fact a couple of the lads we brought through play non league and a couple are physio's isn't much of an argument in favour is it.

[Chris Black come back]

Gaz. I would want to believe that the contrary is the case, but suspect your point is probably the case.

Even going back to Greeny we picked players up who were let go by other clubs and their youth set ups. Unless a parent is willing to gamble and think their lad has a better chance of making first team action with Rovers rather than a bigger local club, he is always going to go for the bigger local club.

Unless we have particularly value-added coaching and can offer this gateway to first team action, we are going to have to be realistic about picking up kids at 8 years and seeing them through to their first team debuts ten years later.

[Nudga]

It's not just local clubs we have to compete with now.
I've heard Leicester and Man City sniffing around a couple of our younger lads.

[DonnyOsmond]

And with EPPP they can take them for pittance if they wish.

I think we all dream of being similar to Crewe but better to hold onto our players.

[The Red Baron]

SOD knew the youth system is a waste of money. Far easier and cheaper picking up Premier League youth rejects. They will be a better standard of player as well. Our youth system is an absolute myth, too many bigger clubs around to compete with. Bringing your own youth players through is a romantic fantasy of clubs and fans.

The fact a couple of the lads we brought through play non league and a couple are physio's isn't much of an argument in favour is it.

Do you know of any professional clubs who have done away with their academy, and what the results were? I am genuinely interested because it is a costly exercise if it doesn't bring players through to the first team.

[DonnyOsmond]

Hereford, Wycombe and Yeovil don't have academies due to EPPP and recently Brentford got rid of theirs. 

[The Red Baron]

Brentford are probably the ones to watch then. Thanks for that.

[Sammy Chung was King]

You can't blame the parents, if they can choose between us or man utd, course they will pick utd most of the time. They know a couple of injuries an opportunity for their kid, and he could end up being a top player, and also financially secure for life.
If he doesn't make it there, he might then drop to a side like ours. If you don't make it with us, where do you go, frickley?, askern?, rossington?.

Then a lot get downhearted, and accept they are not good enough, when sometimes it isn't the case. Not everybody gets the opportunity to prove they are or could be great, joining the bigger clubs is like jumpting the queue to potential success.
 A club like ours can only make it known you will get opportunities if good enough, and also take some released from youth teams on trial. Don't forget the young kid playing at frickley, askern or rossington, he might still be good enough if you give him a chance!.

[wilts rover]

Hereford, Wycombe and Yeovil don't have academies due to EPPP and recently Brentford got rid of theirs. 

Hereford! They went bust and a new club was formed in the Midland League - Tier 9. Thats like saying Armthorpe and Bessacarr don't have Academies!

Yeovil have admitted it was a mistake to scrap theirs and relaunched it last season
http://www.ytfc.net/news/article/yeovil-town-relaunches-academy-programme-2404183.aspx

Brentford do seem to have gone back to the pre-Academy, Youth Team, hope it works for them.

[DonnyOsmond]

I got the first three clubs from a link I found, Hereford closed there's before they went bust hence why they were on there.

Brentford have gone to just U18 and development due to a restructure in May.

http://mobile.brentfordfc.co.uk/news/article/brentford-academy-restructuring-11.05.16-3109002.aspx