EC96 England vs Germany

[BillyStubbsTears]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/36258250

Quite enjoying this. That England side is probably about the best one in the last 50 years.

[glosterred]

The 66 side was probably better

[BillyStubbsTears]

Alright pedant. 49 years and 10 months!

[Copps is Magic]

The only decent England team in my lifetime. Should have won that tournament. Best atmosphere from a home nation I've heard also.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Interesting points:

1) Ince was excellent. Early example of a new breed of physical midfield guvnor.

2) Gazza. Why the f**k couldn't he have stayed off the pop. You can see the effect it's had on him. Just taken the edge off his pace. If he'd had that zip, he could truly have been up there with the very best of all time. Instead of just being the best from England.

3) On pace, it's astonishing how slow it looks to the modern eye. No breaking at pace from either side. Very little closing down and harrying.

4) And there've been some bleeding awful balls into the box from open play.

[IDM]

We could, and should, have won the world cup in 1990 - I even turned over from the final to watch the tennis it was so shit!

[BillyStubbsTears]

5) Matts Sammer. What a player. We've produced  no-one in my lifetime who could read a game like that, and quietly snuff trouble out, then step up the field and initiate attacks. A joy to watch.

[Chris Black come back]

Erm Lothar Mattheus?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yeah. I was meaning in the English game.

[Jonathan]

Gazza is the most naturally gifted footballer I've ever had the privilege of watching. My hero growing up and he always will be because of that. Tragic how it's all turned out for him and very sad to see him now. Watching films back from 1990 and 1996, how he was around the camp, you can feel how hard it's hit him and how he must miss being in amongst it. How desperately frustrating it must be when he could no longer do what came so naturally to him.

I could watch his highlight reels back all day.

[jonnydog]

Watched the Euro '96 documentary on ITV4 last night.

Venables was on about Gazza, his skills and character, and then briefly touched on a recent visit to Gazza in rehab. He was talking it as if the inevitable is happening, even to the point where he said that when he left, he felt like he had to kiss Gazza on the forehead.

It was filmed this year so it's obviously his recent rehab visit. Very sad, and very tragic as it is with everyone who has that illness.

[PDX_Rover]

Is that the Alan Shearer documentary. Watched that last week and it was brilliant. I was in London for job interviews the week of the Holland game and it was amazing.

[Sammy Chung was King]

What a terrible standard that game was. I remembered it being better than that, Gazza was almost finished at that stage. Shearer was the best striker by a mile on that pitch.
I always remembered moller as being a top player, scholl as well, they are not how i remembered them , they looked very ordinary. Did stuart pearce have a braincell in that head?, the amount of aimless balls he played was unbelievable.
The first half was abysmal, two sides almost playing a tactical game, not wanting to give anything away. England were much better second half, but i thought the germans were technically better than us passing the ball.

Looking back now, we had quite a dirty side by those days, we give the germans a fair few digs, and not even a yellow card.
 Gazza, i had forgot that almost identical chance he missed, as well as the one we all remember. Anderton, how did he miss that?, the commentator, said ''How unlucky'', no wonder we have this poor me personality when it comes to tournaments, luck was nothing to do with it, it was a terrible finish.
I wouldn't say that side was our most talented. I'd say it was the side that had most belief i've seen upto now, togetherness, mixed in with good ability, and were very well organised under Venables.
I often wonder if we could have gone further and won something if he had carried on as manager!. It was a fantastic summer, this game brought back a lot of memories, i would love this years to be as good.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nope. It was a re-run of the entire Eng-WG match with the build up, expert summary and commentary. Got me quite caught up in it.

Regarding the England Holland match, I was in a boozer in Sheffield with a minuscule mate who was originally from Cameroon (and who was loudly cheering England on). A couple of lads next to us kept talking loudly about "f**king foreigners watching England". Half way through the first half, we were joined by another couple of mates from ex-Yugoslavia. Both of them 6'8'' and 16 stone. Not a peep from the lads at the side of us for the rest of the match.

The match was glorious, but that experience took the edge of it for me. I've never wanted supporting England to be equated with hating every other Kitson.

[PDX_Rover]

Here's me and Gazza after Paul Malcolm's benefit match, May 1990. Spent a good half hour sharing a couple of pints with him. And then he went to the World Cup and the rest is history. Really down to earth and a lovely fella who just loved his footie.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sammy.

That's the point I was making on another thread earlier. The game has moved on to such an extent that it's barely recognisable from the game of 20 years ago.

If you're going to watch old football, you have to suspend your knowledge of what's happened since, and immerse yourself in the spirit of the time. By the standards of the time, that England side was really quite good. I don't think we've had better since the late 60s.

Surprisingly, at the start of the tournament, we were just about at our lowest point in the history of the FIFA rankings (which, admittedly, only started in 1992). We were 27th in Feb 96 which was our lowest ever ranking, and 24th in May96.

Bonus point. In which year did we achieve our highest ever ranking of 3rd? When you know the answer, you'll realise how shite the FIFA rankings are.

[PDX_Rover]

2013 or something?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's me and Gazza after Paul Malcolm's benefit match, May 1990. Spent a good half hour sharing a couple of pints with him. And then he went to the World Cup and the rest is history. Really down to earth and a lovely fella who just loved his footie.

That Paul Malcom benefit match. Gazza that night was something else. He came over the the Pop Side wall to grab someone's can of ale. Had a swig and shared a joke with the crowd. Then Billy Bremner pinged a 50 yard cross-field pass towards him. Crowd shouted to Gazza to look round. He put the can down, SAT on the ball to kill it, flicked it off to another player, then picked up the can and started supping again.

Funny at the time. Heartbreaking now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nearly. Late 2012. After the last Euros. The one in which we didn't touch the ball for 120 minutes in the quarter-final. Sandwiched in-between getting humiliated by Germany in 2010, and being home before the postcards in 2014.

[PDX_Rover]

Yeah I remember him trapping the ball with his arse. He was miles above everyone else that night. Sad really that he was so badly advised and naive. MAybe if he'd gone to Man Utd rather than Spurs, Ferguson Senior might have managed him more closely. Alas, we'll never know.

[PDX_Rover]

Nearly. Late 2012. After the last Euros. The one in which we didn't touch the ball for 120 minutes in the quarter-final. Sandwiched in-between getting humiliated by Germany in 2010, and being home before the postcards in 2014.

Yeah, I remember seeing that at the time and thinking what the f**k.

[Sammy Chung was King]

Sammy.

That's the point I was making on another thread earlier. The game has moved on to such an extent that it's barely recognisable from the game of 20 years ago.

If you're going to watch old football, you have to suspend your knowledge of what's happened since, and immerse yourself in the spirit of the time. By the standards of the time, that England side was really quite good. I don't think we've had better since the late 60s.

Surprisingly, at the start of the tournament, we were just about at our lowest point in the history of the FIFA rankings (which, admittedly, only started in 1992). We were 27th in Feb 96 which was our lowest ever ranking, and 24th in May96.

Bonus point. In which year did we achieve our highest ever ranking of 3rd? When you know the answer, you'll realise how shite the FIFA rankings are.

Yes i know, and i have to admit you have a point, the standard compared, to now can't be compared. I do still think that some players from back then could adjust, but would they be as highly rated?, i don't think they would.
When i think of Gazza, i first of all see him in a newcastle, putting the ball through the england captain, bryan robson's legs. Then i think of him at spurs destroying a decent portsmouth team. That free kick against arsenal. I see italia 90, he was the best player in the tournament. I see him when he did play playing for lazio, he made a lot of their players look very ordinary.

Then i see the past it gazza, plugging along for middlesbrough, becoming a star again in scotland because of the standard going down. Euro 96 his last tournament, that goal against scotland, flashes of the old gazza here and there. Then Hoddle not picking him, and him playing in china, then the downfall that we see now, very sad!.

[RobTheRover]

Here's me and Gazza after Paul Malcolm's benefit match, May 1990. Spent a good half hour sharing a couple of pints with him. And then he went to the World Cup and the rest is history. Really down to earth and a lovely fella who just loved his footie.

I never knew you used to sing in Keane.....

[idler]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/36258250

Quite enjoying this. That England side is probably about the best one in the last 50 years.

Alright pedant. 49 years and 10 months!

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/36258250

Quite enjoying this. That England side is probably about the best one in the last 50 years.

I think that the 1970 World Cup team could have won it.
They were the only team that gave Brazil a real game.
A fit Banks or leaving Bobby Charlton on and we would have cruised past Germany. We could have taken Italy in the semi setting up a great final.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Maybe. But every country has its "if only" legends.

If only Holland had actually made sure they beat West Germany in 74 instead of trying to humiliate them.

If only Peru hadn't thrown their match against Argentina in return for getting some dissidents flown home to be tortured, Brazil might have won in 78.

If only the ref had seen Schumacher's attempted decapitation of Patrick Battiston, France might have won in 82.

Shit happens. If you're good enough, you take advantage when the breaks go your way. England's best ever chance was in 2002. It was a dreadful World Cup and we played against 10 men for the last half hour of a quarter final, with Turkey to face in the semis and the worst German team in history waiting in the final. If only we hadn't been absolute dogshite, we might have won that tournament.

[PDX_Rover]

Here's me and Gazza after Paul Malcolm's benefit match, May 1990. Spent a good half hour sharing a couple of pints with him. And then he went to the World Cup and the rest is history. Really down to earth and a lovely fella who just loved his footie.

I never knew you used to sing in Keane.....

Nope you lost me there mate.

[jonnydog]

Here's me and Gazza after Paul Malcolm's benefit match, May 1990. Spent a good half hour sharing a couple of pints with him. And then he went to the World Cup and the rest is history. Really down to earth and a lovely fella who just loved his footie.

I never knew you used to sing in Keane.....

Nope you lost me there mate.

Not lost me Rob, I do love a good lookalike

[PDX_Rover]

You two need your eyes testing.

[Al4475]

Euro 96, italians trained at my uni and five lads trained with them while they were there! Watched a session or two zola was immense as was toldo (third keeper at the time - didn't play I don't think) hilarious moment after the czech republic game - arrigo saachi only worked the other squad members who'd not been involved v czechs - the lads that pplayed got 'lost' in a field in alsager - cue mad scrambling of police to find £200million worth of talent that were sat in a field enjoying a sunny cheshire countryside day! Bizarrely our uni first team lads that trained with the italians didn't look out of place! We had some real good footballers in our first teams that never quite made it - a far thinner fine line between the 'did' and 'didn't' make it fellas back then!

[Lesonthewest]

Here's me and Gazza after Paul Malcolm's benefit match, May 1990. Spent a good half hour sharing a couple of pints with him. And then he went to the World Cup and the rest is history. Really down to earth and a lovely fella who just loved his footie.

That Paul Malcom benefit match. Gazza that night was something else. He came over the the Pop Side wall to grab someone's can of ale. Had a swig and shared a joke with the crowd. Then Billy Bremner pinged a 50 yard cross-field pass towards him. Crowd shouted to Gazza to look round. He put the can down, SAT on the ball to kill it, flicked it off to another player, then picked up the can and started supping again.

Funny at the time. Heartbreaking now.

He was brilliant that night BST, I also remember him sending off the ref aswell as throwing the ball down to his feet & being able to control it, fantastic talent that was a privelige to witness.