Russians stealing England flags..

[The Red Baron]

Well, it'd serve Putin's interests if this whipped up anti-European feeling in England ahead of the referendum...

More likely to whip up anti Russian feeling once the truth emerges.

[The Red Baron]

I see the locals in Nice have been attacking both Polish and Northern Irish fans.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

You've got folk saying they are going to vote Leave because of Afghan immigrants. I think you're expecting a bit much of some voters' powers of discrimination.

[RedJ]

Both FAs have been warned of possible disqualification if the violence continues according to Sky Sports.

[MrFrost]

Given the widespread use of military trained 'civilian' agent provocateurs in the Ukraine and elsewhere, I do just wonder what, if any, political gain might arise, and for whom, from this behaviour?

It's probably complete rubbish, but the affairs of the world these days do make me wonder a bit.

BobG

PS Just seen yours Mr Frost. Have you got any links for that? Please?!

A couple of Tweets is all really. Although they are clearly very organised and fearless, considering how outnumbered they seem to be on video evidence

[BobG]

Ok. Thanks Mr Frost.

It's an interesting line of thought....

Well, it'd serve Putin's interests if this whipped up anti-European feeling in England ahead of the referendum...

More likely to whip up anti Russian feeling once the truth emerges.

Unlikely John I think. Even though we all know what happened to that airliner over the Ukraine a couple of years ago, the Russians continue to stone wall and the world hasn't got the guts to make a fuss. Why would anyone make a fuss about something as, apparently, relatively trivial as this? (I'm not saying this would be trivial btw. Just that it would look so)

In fact, I'm sure you remember that Korean airliner packed with passengers that the Russians shot out of the sky in the mid/late 1980's. Funny how little fuss there was about that too.

No. The Russians have developed a way of waging war that involves very little risk to the Rodina, irritates the hell out of the opposition and which the world is pretty much unable to counteract. That will change, one day, but for now, the Russians have got us all dancing to their tune. That's one of the reasons why I wonder about this little excitement. I suspect the Russians are, and have been, practising very hard for quite some time now. At a guess, I think a decision to emigrate to one of the Baltic states might be a serious mistake.

Bob

[Campsall rover]

Why is it that most othe countries are unable to organise a football tournament.
How on earth can you have Russian and English in a stadium with no gap down the middle and a solid line of stewards down each side?
This just would not happen here would it? They couldn't organise a .... .. In a brewery.
Next World Cup in Russia, God help us.

[silent majority]

To be totally accurate, that far stand  occupied by the Russians which had England supporters in it, wasn't the official England section. It was meant to be a neutral area filled with ticket holders who'd acquired tickets through the UEFA portal. Admittedly it was overall England support but these wouldn't have been the regular England support more a casual following and people without a lot of tournament experience. If you check the pictures you'll see quite a few children and women in amongst those, plus French families who just happen to be wearing England shirts.

The 'official' England section was at the other end of the stadium and if they'd have charged at that end then the outcome would have been completely different. I dread to think of the carnage that would have ensued, there were no Police inside the stadium at all, mostly female stewards and volunteers.

[mushRTID]

Is the feeling this was just targeting the England fans/match or are Wales going to be in for similar treatment?

[Campsall rover]

Why is it that most othe countries are unable to organise a football tournament.
How on earth can you have Russian and English in a stadium with no gap down the middle and a solid line of stewards down each side?
This just would not happen here would it? They couldn't organise a .... .. In a brewery.
Next World Cup in Russia, God help us.

People are banging on about segregation, but if you go to any top ground in this country where rivals fans are in the same stand, it's just the same - some black netting over seats, a sterile zone which consists of a dozen or so seats, then maybe a row of stewards and the opposition fans.

Similar segregation may/may not have been there in the Stade Velodrome, but if you get d**kheads hell bent on causing chaos - and they out-number stewards, you're going to be up against it.

The police should have been inside the stadium - why they wouldn't be for a match like this anyway, especially given two days of trouble beforehand, is at best baffling, if not incompetent on the French's police's behalf. Even then, however, with the coppers inside the stadium, it may not have been enough - if the Russians were just hell-bent on carrying out an attack.

Staggeringly, something which seems to have been virtually completely overlooked is that one Russian fan got on the pitch at the end of the game. It's a good job his 'mates' didn't follow him on, otherwise there's every probability the England players would have been attacked.

Yes but there was no netting or line of stewards. Do the French not know about these Russian thugs who are hell bent on causing mayhem?
Total incompetence, and if they ( Russia ) cause any more mayhem the must be expelled from the tournament immediately. They have to sort out their hooligan problem before 2018

[Campsall rover]

Oh how silly of me, of course UEFA won't do anything of the sort it is England supporters causing the problems! Call me a cynic but thats what they will want to think.

[Retdon1]

UEFA will probably liaise with FIFA and ban Russia from the next World Cup qualifying campaign...

They don't need to qualify because there hosting it. Madness, it will be a month a pure Carneige

[CottyRover]

UEFA will probably liaise with FIFA and ban Russia from the next World Cup qualifying campaign...

They don't need to qualify because there hosting it. Madness, it will be a month a pure Carneige

I think that was Rigo's point.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Note how despite there being clear involvement from Russian, English and French, there is no suggestion that France would be thrown out of the competition.

I also think it's time to realise that it's not the fault of the countries in the competition but of the governments of those countries in not dealing with their hoolies, and of the home country in not mopping them up when they are in their country.

Its not like it's hard to identify many of those involved as initial aggressors in this, stick them in a cage for a month and whatever else. Were there any arrests in the ground for example?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Thinking ahead - what chance of USA and Russia being in the same group?!

[Andy Samuel]

 The absolute bell ends that follow england deserve all they get, always giving it the big I am. No surrender, 10 Germans bombers, lad bible generic Herbert's. The World Cup in Russia will be on another level from this in marseille, let's see how brave these goons who congregate outside Irish bars and then sing anti ira songs are then.

[Bristol Red Rover]

The absolute bell ends that follow england deserve all they get, always giving it the big I am. No surrender, 10 Germans bombers, lad bible generic Herbert's. The World Cup in Russia will be on another level from this in marseille, let's see how brave these goons who congregate outside Irish bars and then sing anti ira songs are then.

Personally I don't even subscribe to the national anthem, but there's a huge difference between taunting/songs and physical violence. Plus you make the numpty mistake of not distinguishing between "bell ends that follow england" and the few who may be on the look out for a ruck.

[Andy Samuel]

2 days of giving it the big I am, then getting absolutely smashed by some proper lads. Quality. No surrender ha ha.

[RedRover45]

Yes, these 'proper lads' showed how big and tough they are running across the neutral stand that was full of families with children. Interesting they didn't try getting into the allocated England end. Pity the hard lads of every country don't join together and give these Russian ultras a good sorting out.

[Andy Samuel]

Yes, these 'proper lads' showed how big and tough they are running across the neutral stand that was full of families with children. Interesting they didn't try getting into the allocated England end. Pity the hard lads of every country don't join together and give these Russian ultras a good sorting out.

they scattered everything insight, inside the ground outside the ground and in the city. Trust me these were organised lads, the England of old could of lived with them. However banning orders and people just growing up have put paid to that. God help anybody going to Russia for wc2018.....

[Padge_DRFC]

2 days of giving it the big I am, then getting absolutely smashed by some proper lads. Quality. No surrender ha ha.

Are you Scottish?

[wilts rover]

There are some very strange comments on this thread - the Russian government sending their army over to France in disguise as football hooligans to beat up a few drunken English blokes, really! Isn't the last line of this piece closer to the truth:

Dasha Timofeeva, 27, a Russia fan who was at the game with her father, Viktor, said the event had been poorly policed, and she was ashamed of the behaviour of some of her compatriots.

“We are of course sorry to the English who got hurt, but please believe us that not all Russian people are like these hooligans,” she said. “There is a hooligan sub-culture in Russia and sorry but there is nothing us fans can do about that.

“We were very surprised that there were no police in the stadium. Why not? In Russia the police are very strong and keep the hooligans in control. There was no control in the stadium last night.

“But also, the English fans were not kind either. My father and I were in the Old Port and had to run away from the bottles and gas. Other England supporters said sorry to us. So both countries have good and bad people at football matches.”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/12/russian-hooligans-savage-organised-england-fans-marseille-euro-2016

If anyone is 'responsible' then surely it is the organisers for not foreesing the potential for trouble = and not having an adequate plan to deal with any that broke out.

[Filo]

One of Locomotiv Moscow's ultra groups seem to be the main instigators Orel Butchers, theres loads on youtube about them, incidently another one of Locomotivs ultra groups is called the Vikings

[The Red Baron]

Worth remembering this next time someone sings the praises of "Ultras." Basically Ultra is just another word for hooligans.

[Andy Samuel]

One of Locomotiv Moscow's ultra groups seem to be the main instigators Orel Butchers, theres loads on youtube about them, incidently another one of Locomotivs ultra groups is called the Vikings

they teamed up with Cska moscow and a small moscow team. Then you had the main lot that were spartak moscow and red star belgrade. Also throw in the zenit group and small pockets of 20/30 from the lower league clubs. As I said earlier very, very well organised and extremely violent, they don't drink and most are m.m.a fighters/ex forces. f**k me they even had gum shields in!!!

[Filo]

One of Locomotiv Moscow's ultra groups seem to be the main instigators Orel Butchers, theres loads on youtube about them, incidently another one of Locomotivs ultra groups is called the Vikings

they teamed up with Cska moscow and a small moscow team. Then you had the main lot that were spartak moscow and red star belgrade. Also throw in the zenit group and small pockets of 20/30 from the lower league clubs. As I said earlier very, very well organised and extremely violent, they don't drink and most are m.m.a fighters/ex forces. f**k me they even had gum shields in!!!

How do Red Star Belgrade tie in with the Russians?

[normal rules]

Part of the problem is Russia have done nothing to prevent their worst hooligans travelling to this event.
Hundreds of England based hooligans with fbos have had to surrender their passports to prevent em travelling.

Russia should never be in the euros.
Who on earth in their right might will trail there in 2018?

[Andy Samuel]

Russians and Serbs are very close especially the various firms. Spartak moscow and red star belgrade are the orthodox brothers firm. Partizan belgrade are with cska moscow. There's loads of red star lads live in Paris aswell. If you're on twitter filo, you'll see there's a few pictures of the Serbs/Russians on their way to marseille, a good 200 of them.
As I say this was well organised and I tipped a few rovers fans off who follow england as early as December. I'll stick my neck out and say they'll be no trouble off the Russians now, they've done what they set out to do and won't see wales/Slovakia as any sort of 'scalp'. Just wait till World Cup 2018...... Another level that.

[normal rules]

Problem is, will England fans manage to contain themselves if they get anything other than a win against Wales.
let's be honest on the domestic front games between English and Welsh teams usually end in some sort of trouble, and have done for years. Cardiff, Swansea et al will all be represented in lens, it does not bode well does it? There will be Welsh idiots who will see an opportunity to goad English into trouble to get England disqualified.

[silent majority]

Problem is, will England fans manage to contain themselves if they get anything other than a win against Wales.
let's be honest on the domestic front games between English and Welsh teams usually end in some sort of trouble, and have done for years. Cardiff, Swansea et al will all be represented in lens, it does not bode well does it? There will be Welsh idiots who will see an opportunity to goad English into trouble to get England disqualified.

But you're still assuming that England has a hooligan problem. What evidence is there to support that?