Question for the General Election experts

[RedJ]

...so are you trying to say this is Jeremy Corbyn's fault or?

[bobjimwilly]

I don't follow your logic Bally; it is all the other parties fault for getting votes and therefore preventing a Tory majority? Is that it?

[Glyn_Wigley]

The pound fell the second the exit poll predicted a hung Parliament. Currency markets like stability so that the future can be predicted with certainty and plans made accordingly - and a hung Parliament is the opposite of stability as who knows (a) how long May can survive; (b) who will take over from her; and (c) how soon there's going to be another election, and more uncertainty because of that.

All three can be firmly laid at Theresa May's doorstep as there was absolutely NO reason to call an election at all when she had all the stability she needed to do anything she wanted. She called the election for sheer political opportunism and it blew up in her face.

If you don't believe me...would the pound be where it is if the election hadn't taken place?

[NickDRFC]

The blame lies at the Tories' door for complacency allied with/resulting in a ridiculously poor campaign - you can't blame the electorate for voting elsewhere on the strengths of the respective campaigns.

[idler]

The Tories have been making poor decisions for the last few years in my eyes.
The austerity programme really worked.
The promise of a referendum and being so confident of winning it that all Cameron could do was threaten any potential or actual Brexiters.
Overconfidence in calling an unnecessary election.
Ditching the austerity policy three years ago might have won enough people over to remain plus putting more people into work.
They are now saying policies have to be changed and people listened to. 
Where was this idea two weeks ago?

[tommy toes]

Bally
The young have been ignored for years.
Student debt in the many thousands.
Poor job prospects.
Zero hour contracts.
No chance of buying a house.
Compare that to our generation. We could change jobs anytime. I bought a house when I was 19. No problem.
At least Labour have recognised this and tried to help.
The tories would just help rich kids and those bright enough to go to new Grammar schools.

[Bentley Bullet]

Weren't tuition fees brought in because some school leavers were benefiting from free university tuition but not even bothering to attend classes? If that is correct, what would be different now?

[drfc1951]

No doubt some of the people moaning about students voting for free tuition fees,got free uni education when they left school.

[Iberian Red]

Weren't tuition fees brought in because some school leavers were benefiting from free university tuition but not even bothering to attend classes? If that is correct, what would be different now?

No,they weren't.

[ballysbackin]

Filo, it is alright saying "WE will pay all fees, but if it was the Tories who did not state where the money was coming from ??? all hell would brake loose. The Labour Party were playing with Monopoly money

[ballysbackin]

Bally
The young have been ignored for years.
Student debt in the many thousands.
Poor job prospects.
Zero hour contracts.
No chance of buying a house.
Compare that to our generation. We could change jobs anytime. I bought a house when I was 19. No problem.
At least Labour have recognised this and tried to help.
The tories would just help rich kids and those bright enough to go to new Grammar schools.

My son got aDegree at Uni and left almost two years ago so did his girlfriend.

Job 1 Carrilion doing Data input well a job for years? he was sent down the road with several others after the workload hade been caught up on
Job2 CEX selling electronic stuff (Pawnbroker) and buying from druggies and the destitute 6 months
Job 3 He is selling Borrittos in a food take away until tomorrow been there about 8 months.

Fkn Degree yep he voted Labour at Hallam and the Labour Candidate got in and my son is chuffed.

Three jobs all less than minimum wage all zero hours all no contract . Oh You do not have to tell me anything I can assure you.. He has now got accepted at The Uni of Sheff to do a Masters - More debt and will need a part time job as well so they can pay rent on the flat.

The Pound dropped. It is all the fault of the Tories. GB should stay in EU and Labour in Power. Yep that will do me.  Rovers to get relegated . Yes I was in the Police and Yes I am from Dunscroft yes I come from a Labour family. So......??????? YOUR POINT ?????

[wilts rover]

Weren't tuition fees brought in because some school leavers were benefiting from free university tuition but not even bothering to attend classes? If that is correct, what would be different now?

If it isn't correct where do you get your information from?

[wilts rover]

Filo, it is alright saying "WE will pay all fees, but if it was the Tories who did not state where the money was coming from ??? all hell would brake loose. The Labour Party were playing with Monopoly money

Two questions Bally:
How many other countries across the world have university tuition fees?
Should all children have access to university - or just the rich?

[tommy toes]

Bally
The young have been ignored for years.
Student debt in the many thousands.
Poor job prospects.
Zero hour contracts.
No chance of buying a house.
Compare that to our generation. We could change jobs anytime. I bought a house when I was 19. No problem.
At least Labour have recognised this and tried to help.
The tories would just help rich kids and those bright enough to go to new Grammar schools.

My son got aDegree at Uni and left almost two years ago so did his girlfriend.

Job 1 Carrilion doing Data input well a job for years? he was sent down the road with several others after the workload hade been caught up on
Job2 CEX selling electronic stuff (Pawnbroker) and buying from druggies and the destitute 6 months
Job 3 He is selling Borrittos in a food take away until tomorrow been there about 8 months.

Fkn Degree yep he voted Labour at Hallam and the Labour Candidate got in and my son is chuffed.

Three jobs all less than minimum wage all zero hours all no contract . Oh You do not have to tell me anything I can assure you.. He has now got accepted at The Uni of Sheff to do a Masters - More debt and will need a part time job as well so they can pay rent on the flat.

The Pound dropped. It is all the fault of the Tories. GB should stay in EU and Labour in Power. Yep that will do me.  Rovers to get relegated . Yes I was in the Police and Yes I am from Dunscroft yes I come from a Labour family. So......??????? YOUR POINT ?????

My point?
In your post you said the young saw they got something for nothing so voted Labour.
My point is that they have been ignored by successive governments including Labour and that Corbyns Labour are trying to do something about it.
The pound dropping is irrrelevant. It always happens when the Tories dont do well, it means nothing. It'll recover when the speculators have made their money.

[idler]

My eldest granddaughter is a graduate and works at a school as a special needs helper to get experience.
She gets a lift with a full time employee there.
A couple of weeks ago she was told twice in three days that she wasn't needed when she got there leaving her to catch two buses to get home.
She gets £50 a day when she works but some weeks isn't needed at all.
She is very disillusioned at the minute and at the moment regrets going to uni.

[RedJ]

Filo, it is alright saying "WE will pay all fees, but if it was the Tories who did not state where the money was coming from ??? all hell would brake loose. The Labour Party were playing with Monopoly money

Monopoly money yet they state how they'd fund it..?

[Bentley Bullet]

To deviate slightly from thread, why does it seem that everybody considers the option of going to Uni these days? When I was a lad you had to have a certain level of intelligence to qualify for Uni, nowadays it doesn't seem to matter if you're as thick as f**k.

[RedJ]

I think the recent push towards apprenticeships is a healthy thing as a lot of potential employers nowadays seem to value experience over qualifications and this is a good way of breaking into the cycle. Also doesn't mean you're thick if you go for one over university as some people seem to think.

[Bentley Bullet]

Exactly, not going to Uni does seem to signify failure these days, especially when it appears that anybody can get a place. There are a couple of young'ens that I know who have found a place that would have been better off stopping on at normal school to learn to read and write.

[Bentley Bullet]

Weren't tuition fees brought in because some school leavers were benefiting from free university tuition but not even bothering to attend classes? If that is correct, what would be different now?

If it isn't correct where do you get your information from?

I don't know if it isn't correct, that's why I'm asking the experts. I got the information after listening to opinions of other experts around the time the Labour government introduced the tuition fees.

Obviously, even if it is true, it wouldn't have been given as one of the official reasons, what with the PC brigade having a dicky fit and all that.

[Filo]

Filo, it is alright saying "WE will pay all fees, but if it was the Tories who did not state where the money was coming from ??? all hell would brake loose. The Labour Party were playing with Monopoly money

Fully costed, are you ignoring that bit?

[wilts rover]

Weren't tuition fees brought in because some school leavers were benefiting from free university tuition but not even bothering to attend classes? If that is correct, what would be different now?

If it isn't correct where do you get your information from?

I don't know if it isn't correct, that's why I'm asking the experts. I got the information after listening to opinions of other experts around the time the Labour government introduced the tuition fees.

Obviously, even if it is true, it wouldn't have been given as one of the official reasons, what with the PC brigade having a dicky fit and all that.

Obviously. Not even if it fits in with the non-PC brigade's attitude to 'alternative facts'?

If that was Labour's reason for introducing tuition fees what was the reason for the Tory coalition trebling them btw?

[wilts rover]

And moving the conversation on a little, can any of you politics experts say if it is Labour or the Tories fault that the NHS now has a shortfall of 40 000 nurses?

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/12/nhs-facing-major-crisis-after-brexit-leaves-hospitals-40000-nurses-short-6704236/

[idler]

To deviate slightly from thread, why does it seem that everybody considers the option of going to Uni these days? When I was a lad you had to have a certain level of intelligence to qualify for Uni, nowadays it doesn't seem to matter if you're as thick as f**k.

I've been saying something similar for years BB.
A university place might be a right but it does seem easier to go for a degree than in previous eras.
What is the point of hundreds or thousands going to university with little or no chance of furthering a career with it. That money would be better spent on education for younger pupils in my opinion.

[Iberian Red]

Weren't tuition fees brought in because some school leavers were benefiting from free university tuition but not even bothering to attend classes? If that is correct, what would be different now?

If it isn't correct where do you get your information from?

His crystal ball.

[ballysbackin]

I don't follow your logic Bally; it is all the other parties fault for getting votes and therefore preventing a Tory majority? Is that it?

No. The Tories still won the General Election. That is fact

[Bentley Bullet]

Weren't tuition fees brought in because some school leavers were benefiting from free university tuition but not even bothering to attend classes? If that is correct, what would be different now?

If it isn't correct where do you get your information from?

I don't know if it isn't correct, that's why I'm asking the experts. I got the information after listening to opinions of other experts around the time the Labour government introduced the tuition fees.

Obviously, even if it is true, it wouldn't have been given as one of the official reasons, what with the PC brigade having a dicky fit and all that.

Obviously. Not even if it fits in with the non-PC brigade's attitude to 'alternative facts'?

If that was Labour's reason for introducing tuition fees what was the reason for the Tory coalition trebling them btw?

Maybe the Tory coalition's decision was for different reasons. Perhaps part of the reason was to cover the cost of  EU students whose intention was to bugger off back home without paying their loans off after gaining their degrees.

[ballysbackin]

The pound fell the second the exit poll predicted a hung Parliament. Currency markets like stability so that the future can be predicted with certainty and plans made accordingly - and a hung Parliament is the opposite of stability as who knows (a) how long May can survive; (b) who will take over from her; and (c) how soon there's going to be another election, and more uncertainty because of that.

All three can be firmly laid at Theresa May's doorstep as there was absolutely NO reason to call an election at all when she had all the stability she needed to do anything she wanted. She called the election for sheer political opportunism and it blew up in her face.

If you don't believe me...would the pound be where it is if the election hadn't taken place?

Well I actually think the election was called to give stability and continuity in the discussions that are to follow next week in the ill fated it would appear Brexit talks. The five year plan would have seen and exit as Britain wanted and it would have had three good years in place for the next government to take over even if were to be the BNP.

[ballysbackin]

The blame lies at the Tories' door for complacency allied with/resulting in a ridiculously poor campaign - you can't blame the electorate for voting elsewhere on the strengths of the respective campaigns.

Last year it was at Camerons door for being too cocky and assuming the British people would vote remain, that is why he said there would only be one Referendum and ever since people have contrived to have it reversed then we had all the stupid Court action started by Gina Miller or should I say she fronted it

[ballysbackin]

The Tories have been making poor decisions for the last few years in my eyes.
The austerity programme really worked.
The promise of a referendum and being so confident of winning it that all Cameron could do was threaten any potential or actual Brexiters.
Overconfidence in calling an unnecessary election.
Ditching the austerity policy three years ago might have won enough people over to remain plus putting more people into work.
They are now saying policies have to be changed and people listened to. 
Where was this idea two weeks ago?

idler

I agree entirely