Question for the General Election experts

[Bentley Bullet]

Weren't tuition fees brought in because some school leavers were benefiting from free university tuition but not even bothering to attend classes? If that is correct, what would be different now?

If it isn't correct where do you get your information from?

His crystal ball.

Iberian Red. I do the funnies - You don't.

[ballysbackin]

Bally
The young have been ignored for years.
Student debt in the many thousands.
Poor job prospects.
Zero hour contracts.
No chance of buying a house.
Compare that to our generation. We could change jobs anytime. I bought a house when I was 19. No problem.
At least Labour have recognised this and tried to help.
The tories would just help rich kids and those bright enough to go to new Grammar schools.

Tommy - Do you know when I was in local Politics there was a Councillor who would go into the planning dept at DMBC and see what was going to be given in the Thorne Area and then he would put out a press release stating that HE WOULD MAKE IT HAPPEN and then when it obviously did, he claimed the praise - Politicians are very Clever, when things are clearly not working they do a little research to seek a Strategy (POlitical Term) it really means a fixit when the matter has been fkd up previously and THAT is what Labour did , well all accept Ms Abbott who last week was put in a cupboard by Corbyn and there were many on here who absolutely crucified her for not knowing the true costs to make things happen, but then she was poorly of course

[ballysbackin]

No doubt some of the people moaning about students voting for free tuition fees,got free uni education when they left school.

Well my lad did not and I worked at The Plant. so it did not do us any good.

[ballysbackin]

Filo, it is alright saying "WE will pay all fees, but if it was the Tories who did not state where the money was coming from ??? all hell would brake loose. The Labour Party were playing with Monopoly money

Two questions Bally:
How many other countries across the world have university tuition fees?
Should all children have access to university - or just the rich?

Wilts. WE are not talking about any other country though are we?

[ballysbackin]

Bally
The young have been ignored for years.
Student debt in the many thousands.
Poor job prospects.
Zero hour contracts.
No chance of buying a house.
Compare that to our generation. We could change jobs anytime. I bought a house when I was 19. No problem.
At least Labour have recognised this and tried to help.


OK TOMMY Corbyn is a Politician and slated by most on here, all of a sudden he is the promised son.
The tories would just help rich kids and those bright enough to go to new Grammar schools.

My son got aDegree at Uni and left almost two years ago so did his girlfriend.

Job 1 Carrilion doing Data input well a job for years? he was sent down the road with several others after the workload hade been caught up on
Job2 CEX selling electronic stuff (Pawnbroker) and buying from druggies and the destitute 6 months
Job 3 He is selling Borrittos in a food take away until tomorrow been there about 8 months.

Fkn Degree yep he voted Labour at Hallam and the Labour Candidate got in and my son is chuffed.

Three jobs all less than minimum wage all zero hours all no contract . Oh You do not have to tell me anything I can assure you.. He has now got accepted at The Uni of Sheff to do a Masters - More debt and will need a part time job as well so they can pay rent on the flat.

The Pound dropped. It is all the fault of the Tories. GB should stay in EU and Labour in Power. Yep that will do me.  Rovers to get relegated . Yes I was in the Police and Yes I am from Dunscroft yes I come from a Labour family. So......??????? YOUR POINT ?????

My point?
In your post you said the young saw they got something for nothing so voted Labour.
My point is that they have been ignored by successive governments including Labour and that Corbyns Labour are trying to do something about it.
The pound dropping is irrrelevant. It always happens when the Tories dont do well, it means nothing. It'll recover when the speculators have made their money.

[ballysbackin]

To deviate slightly from thread, why does it seem that everybody considers the option of going to Uni these days? When I was a lad you had to have a certain level of intelligence to qualify for Uni, nowadays it doesn't seem to matter if you're as thick as f**k.

Yes BB you and I got a good education but which Party tried to make even the poor kids get a place?

[ballysbackin]

I think the recent push towards apprenticeships is a healthy thing as a lot of potential employers nowadays seem to value experience over qualifications and this is a good way of breaking into the cycle. Also doesn't mean you're thick if you go for one over university as some people seem to think.

Red...... The Politicians came up with the apprenticeships again after realising that there were no trades up and running after promoting I.T. for the last 20 years or so.  All new Police recruits are to be in possesion of a University Degree? Well that will go down well in a pub fight in one of our villages, I have worked in the Police with some graduates ffs nearly got me killed

[ballysbackin]

Right Thank you all, Sorry for hogging this at the Mo but I cannot play on the computer until my daughter went to bed.

[wilts rover]

Weren't tuition fees brought in because some school leavers were benefiting from free university tuition but not even bothering to attend classes? If that is correct, what would be different now?

If it isn't correct where do you get your information from?

I don't know if it isn't correct, that's why I'm asking the experts. I got the information after listening to opinions of other experts around the time the Labour government introduced the tuition fees.

Obviously, even if it is true, it wouldn't have been given as one of the official reasons, what with the PC brigade having a dicky fit and all that.

Obviously. Not even if it fits in with the non-PC brigade's attitude to 'alternative facts'?

If that was Labour's reason for introducing tuition fees what was the reason for the Tory coalition trebling them btw?

Maybe the Tory coalition's decision was for different reasons. Perhaps part of the reason was to cover the cost of  EU students whose intention was to bugger off back home without paying their loans off after gaining their degrees.

Ahh I see. This problem with EU (and home) students defaulting on loans - has it got better or worse since they made that decision?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672898/eu-students-uk-taxpayers-89-million-fee-fleeing-tuition-fees

[ballysbackin]

As we know the Loans are paid back per PAYE and if they gone back then it is not going to get paid, I do not see any solution to that matter.

[Bentley Bullet]

Now come on Wilts, play the game! If ever I dare use an Express link I/it gets immediately ridiculed!

It seems that the situation has got better for the majority of students, seeing as only a third of them actually pay their fees off.

[Bentley Bullet]

Wilts, apologies for being pedantic, but how many other countries across the world have university tuition fees?

[tommy toes]

Bally
The young have been ignored for years.
Student debt in the many thousands.
Poor job prospects.
Zero hour contracts.
No chance of buying a house.
Compare that to our generation. We could change jobs anytime. I bought a house when I was 19. No problem.
At least Labour have recognised this and tried to help.
The tories would just help rich kids and those bright enough to go to new Grammar schools.

Tommy - Do you know when I was in local Politics there was a Councillor who would go into the planning dept at DMBC and see what was going to be given in the Thorne Area and then he would put out a press release stating that HE WOULD MAKE IT HAPPEN and then when it obviously did, he claimed the praise - Politicians are very Clever, when things are clearly not working they do a little research to seek a Strategy (POlitical Term) it really means a fixit when the matter has been fkd up previously and THAT is what Labour did , well all accept Ms Abbott who last week was put in a cupboard by Corbyn and there were many on here who absolutely crucified her for not knowing the true costs to make things happen, but then she was poorly of course

You are describing a dishonest politician Bally which has no relevance to the arguement.
If you are then trying to say that Labour could see what was wrong in their opinion and outline policies that would put it right then isn't that what all politicians are supposed to do?
Hardly a point worth making IMO.

[ballysbackin]

Bally
The young have been ignored for years.
Student debt in the many thousands.
Poor job prospects.
Zero hour contracts.
No chance of buying a house.
Compare that to our generation. We could change jobs anytime. I bought a house when I was 19. No problem.
At least Labour have recognised this and tried to help.
The tories would just help rich kids and those bright enough to go to new Grammar schools.

Tommy - Do you know when I was in local Politics there was a Councillor who would go into the planning dept at DMBC and see what was going to be given in the Thorne Area and then he would put out a press release stating that HE WOULD MAKE IT HAPPEN and then when it obviously did, he claimed the praise - Politicians are very Clever, when things are clearly not working they do a little research to seek a Strategy (POlitical Term) it really means a fixit when the matter has been fkd up previously and THAT is what Labour did , well all accept Ms Abbott who last week was put in a cupboard by Corbyn and there were many on here who absolutely crucified her for not knowing the true costs to make things happen, but then she was poorly of course

You are describing a dishonest politician Bally which has no relevance to the arguement.
If you are then trying to say that Labour could see what was wrong in their opinion and outline policies that would put it right then isn't that what all politicians are supposed to do?
Hardly a point worth making IMO.

Let the first man who is without sin, cast the first stone.

Your first line complains of a dishonest politician, remember you said that and not me.
Your next line would suggest that it is alright to do the same but in a diverse way
your line three , well you are entitled to your opinion as am I

[tommy toes]

I give up trying to debate with you Bally.
What are you on about?
You brought up the bent politician. Then you try to link it to normal right and proper day to day normal politics as far as I can see.
A couple of weeks ago you said with regards to all this' Leave me out as I'm not bothered'
Since then you've posted loads of ill informed claptrap.
Listen to your own advice man.

[ballysbackin]

Yes Tommy - But YOU said the politician was bent not me. Klap Trap. Interesting but since I had enough which you are correct I DID There have been two mass murders on these isles and a General Election do you not think my views have been affected. But as you want to be right you just be yourself . Have you never changed your opinion ????????????????????
 

Let the first man that is without sin cast the first stone. Well you have defied logic you must be the only one without any sin...You should be really proud of yourself.

Welcome to my world - I tell you what just enjoy the moment 

[tommy toes]

Me without sin? 😃

I once ran through a farmers wheatfield.

Plus I dont see what my sins have got anything to do with what we are discussing on here.
As I said I give up.

[ballysbackin]

Now you are just being silly

[Pancho Regan]

Me without sin? 😃

I once ran through a farmers wheatfield.

Excellent!

[drfchound]

I thought it was a bit corny.

[ballysbackin]

Hay . Do not encourage him that is  the last straw

[Not Now Kato]

To deviate slightly from thread, why does it seem that everybody considers the option of going to Uni these days? When I was a lad you had to have a certain level of intelligence to qualify for Uni, nowadays it doesn't seem to matter if you're as thick as f**k.

I've been saying something similar for years BB.
A university place might be a right but it does seem easier to go for a degree than in previous eras.
What is the point of hundreds or thousands going to university with little or no chance of furthering a career with it. That money would be better spent on education for younger pupils in my opinion.

Simple. It helps make the 'Unemployed' figures look good, as does getting people to work longer!
 
Of course, both have a severe impact further down the line.
 

[idler]

I took redundancy aged 53 and went to register at the Job Centre.
A mate aged 60 went with me as he left the same day as me.
He was told, " You already have enough stamps for your state pension,so if you want you don't have to sign on unless looking for work".
That was another off the figures.
I started a new job the following Monday, found with no help from them.

[ballysbackin]

I was finished 4 weeks after I was 51 - Don't bother looking for work no one will employ you...Lovely - Done at 51 scrap heap Exactly 12months to the month my wife died aged 46 f**kin Brill I think not.

[wilts rover]

Wilts, apologies for being pedantic, but how many other countries across the world have university tuition fees?

I am not sure BB but i do know that England has the highest fees in the world. Students in France pay £346 per year and Belgium, Germany, Italy and Austria less than £1000. Scotland have just introduced them - although of course English students pay the full £9k there.

The US doesn't have a national rate and it is much easier to get scolarships and bursaries there too.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/university-tuition-fees-england-highest-world-compare-students-student-loan-calculator-a7654276.html
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/24/uk-has-highest-undergraduate-tuition-fees-in-industrialised-world-survey-finds

As you say this has caused student debt to rise so much in the past 5 years - average £44000 (twice as much as US students) - that 70% of current students are never expected to earn enough to be able to pay it off. Thus costing the government/tax payer around £8billion.

There is also the knock-on effect in that whilst they are paying off their debts these people will have less money to contribute to the economy in the future. Its a huge problem we are stocking up for 5, 10, 15 years time - all for the sake of a terrible austerity policy.

https://www.ft.com/content/55f4a6f6-3eab-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a
http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/education/exploding-student-debt-ripples-uks-economy/17/01/

[idler]

It was only ever austerity for some though Wilts.
How could someone like George Osborne with his start in life and numerous part time jobs while earning more as an MP than most understand the despair of poverty and being out of work?

[Donnywolf]

Me without sin? 😃

I once ran through a farmers wheatfield.

.

That was a sin as we were playing golf 2 fairways left of the Wheat field !

[BobG]

I was finished 4 weeks after I was 51 - Don't bother looking for work no one will employ you...Lovely - Done at 51 scrap heap Exactly 12months to the month my wife died aged 46 f**kin Brill I think not.

That's utter rubbish Bally. Total claptrap. I'm 61. I have had 4 different, well paying, jobs in the last 5 years. My most recent started when I was 60. I expect to start another while I'm 61. Grow up man.

BobG

[hoolahoop]

The DUPsters to hold the balance of power will not give stability for the long term. They have an interesting past;
So, who are the DUP? | openDemocracy

It seems unlikely to hold until the EU negotiations are finalised in spring 2019, and the strain will show if the deal looks like disappointing some.

What price another election in October, with Mother Theresa standing down for a new leader with a more human persona?

Is there a Tory with a humane persona?

Oh come on Filo there are many Labour who don't live in the real world either and lack both humanity and personality....it's not just Tories .
Don't let your own prejudices get in the way all the time ......there's many a t**t in Westminster.

[hoolahoop]

Filo, it is alright saying "WE will pay all fees, but if it was the Tories who did not state where the money was coming from ??? all hell would brake loose. The Labour Party were playing with Monopoly money

Fully costed, are you ignoring that bit?

It was indeed and was found by the IFS to have had more holes in it than the proverbial sieve.