The London high tower block fire.

[Geoff Blakesley]

I love you really nof xx

[not on facebook]

If you go back through the posts on this thread you will see that after the Lakanal House fire in 2009 and then again after the report into it came out in 2013 several recommendations were made to government on how to make tower blocks safer in case of fire. These included how cladding spread the fire, how building regulations on fire safety were not clear enough and on retrofitting sprinklers when blocks are refurbished.

What we will never know is if a Labour government would have acted on these recommendations. What we do know is that the Tory government didn't.

Grenfell House was refurbished in 2015-2016.

What I find disturbing is that Sheffield Council are claiming they bought one standard of cladding, but the contractors fitted a cheaper version, if that pans out to be true, and the council will surely have kept details of the contract then somebody is in for the High jump.
And if it's happened in Sheffield where else, smells like the old Polson affair and it doesn't smell nice.

What about the Doncaster councils answer to the cladding issue as I found this a tad odd .

It went along the lines that cladding types installed they was happy with ,but their are questions to be asked about the type of cladding that was installed just under the window ledge as that could be suspect cladding.

I don't quite understand why they would use a different type of cladding for just under the window ledge unless I have got the wrong end of the stick again.

[not on facebook]

I love you really nof xx

Sometimes even I don't love myself Jeff ,so you sound like scobby do now .

Have you been dropping some type of  acid or estacy  pills or them magic musrhroom things .

You do know that BYO closed down on north ridge some years ago fella.


You will soon come out of it and back to normall service I suspect .

[Geoff Blakesley]

Had a couple of pints of Ilkley Brewery 'Long Weekend' earlier, about 4%. It did go down well - could that do it ?

[not on facebook]

Beer don't make you want to love and hug everyone Jeff ,but back in the late 1980s many football hooligans were taking pills which lowered the numbers been arrested on matchdays as they was all loved up and hugging each other .

Me I was still an Orrible kunt with no fcuker to swing a punch at as I never taken a drug in my life.

Where did that  "H" go ?

[bpoolrover]

Playing devil's advocate, spending money on hotels will create jobs during the building stage and other jobs when the hotels are finished, as well as potentially fetching more people in to spend money locally.

23 million on a 4 star hotel in not the best part of Blackpool, yes maybe create a few jobs for a
Short time but can't see any other benefits

[BobG]

TRue Geoof - but the testing that's being employed and that they've all failed is mysteriously being kept very secret. There have been eports that what is being tested is the flammability of the content between the two cladding sheets and that that is bursting into flames much too readily. Bu if that's true, it's a totally bizarre test to run. Fire doesn't touch the sandwich filling until it's burned through the cladding itself. And if that lasts an hour before it melts or itself burns , then according to the regs, there's no problem.

Why test for something that is guaranteed to fail when the requirement is to test something else entirely? I've heard it suggested a few times now that the Govt panicked, rushed and didn't understand what they were ordering to be done. Two different fire inspectors have both said on Radio 4 this last 10 days that the Govt safety advisors ballsed it up. And now, if it's true, they're stuck with the consequences and the residents are stuck with the fear.

BobG

[drfchound]

Apologies if i am wrong here, but i think i heard a snippet on the news the other day saying that the cladding used on Grenfell Tower was LESS fire retardant than the cladding they should have used.

The way that reads to me is that the cladding they should have used is NOT FIREPROOF, but is a bit less fire retardant than the stuff they did use.

Why would anyone approve a cladding on a building like that if it isn't totally fireproof?
I am guessing that means that all the towers have cladding which isn't totally fireproof.

Maybe someone will tell me that it isn't possible to get a totally fireproof cladding?

Does anyone know?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Apologies if i am wrong here, but i think i heard a snippet on the news the other day saying that the cladding used on Grenfell Tower was LESS fire retardant than the cladding they should have used.

The way that reads to me is that the cladding they should have used is NOT FIREPROOF, but is a bit less fire retardant than the stuff they did use.

Why would anyone approve a cladding on a building like that if it isn't totally fireproof?
I am guessing that means that all the towers have cladding which isn't totally fireproof.

Maybe someone will tell me that it isn't possible to get a totally fireproof cladding?

Does anyone know?

Because it was £300,000 cheaper.

If you mean why isn't there something that isn't fire retardant but fire proof instead, my guess would be that anything that doesn't burn at all would either be dangerous (ie asbestos), or so solid/dense that it would be too heavy to put all up the sides of tower blocks without compromising the integrity of the building. And cost a lot more to put there than the cladding actually used too.

Having said that, it does occur to me that the cladding seems to be some sort of material sandwiched between two thin layers of another material (in the case of Grenfell, aluminium I believe). Is there any reason why the foam that is used in fire retardant furniture couldn't be used as the filling in the sandwich? OK it still burns - but very slowly, so no quick spread of flames or smoke - and would be light enough for the job too.

[drfchound]

Glyn, I know about the £300k saving but that wasn't the point of my question.
It was about the use of none fire proof products.

Surely in this day and age there must be a product that could be used that is light enough and fire proof.

Maybe it would be more expensive if it does in fact exist but in light of comments on here and on TV, cost shouldn't be an issue if it is at the risk of public safety.

[MachoMadness]

It shouldn't be an issue, but it is an issue. At least, it was before this. Couple the cheap flammable cladding with other slapdash cost cutting, like not filling in chambers made for power lines and gas mains (essentially giving the fire a chimney to spread right to the top of the tower very quickly), and add on top the "red tape" cutting that meant proper safety checks weren't carried out. Really it's a catalogue of errors, encouraged from the government down by this bizarre culture of red tape cutting.

[MachoMadness]

Also just read that hospitals are failing the fire safety checks, including Sheffield Children's Hospital. Makes you really see the scope of the problem.

[selby]

It hasnt took that long for the subject not to be the main news item in the media.
  The dodgy deals ,back  handers and poor workmanship,plus the crooked tenants who sub let,and the illegal tenants and dare I say the illegal immigrants,will all be covering their tracks, or disappearing into the cesspit that London has become.
  No doubt we will have a very expensive Enquiry that will look to blame one or too officials,but will fudge or overlook most of the problems and the people involved because it is not politically correct.


 

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn, I know about the £300k saving but that wasn't the point of my question.
It was about the use of none fire proof products.

Surely in this day and age there must be a product that could be used that is light enough and fire proof.

Maybe it would be more expensive if it does in fact exist but in light of comments on here and on TV, cost shouldn't be an issue if it is at the risk of public safety.

It doesn't need to be completely fire proof, just burn slowly enough for the emergency services to be able to get there and deal with instead of a whole building going up like a roman candle.

I remember a QI programme that was on about hay being a very good fire retardant and that lots of American houses have it in the cavity between the outer and inner skin of the building.

[drfchound]

I can imagine what people would say if hay was used on future towers.
It would be the last straw!

[roversdude]

Careful bringing your mirth to the forum

[Sprotyrover]

My Grandparents house has a foot thick lining of hay in between the outer and inner walls.cool in summer warm in winter. It's 400 years old and still standing

[Bentley Bullet]

I can imagine what people would say if hay was used on future towers.
It would be the last straw!

They'd probably blame poor old Nigel Forage for it.

[drfchound]

Someone would bale him out though.

[Bentley Bullet]

They wouldn't be very popular with the lefties on here if they did, they don't like people going against the grain.

[wilts rover]

Or with the right wing if it wasn't local but had been brought in from further afield.

[Bentley Bullet]

I think they'd have a point in preferring employment fodder local people.

[drfchound]

It would help sort the wheat from the chaff I suppose.

[roversdude]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/grenfell-tower-fire-alarm-firm-lakehouse-in-fraud-claim-j2l5k80p9

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-risk-assessor-carl-stokes-buried-fire-risk-report-kensington-and-chelsea-tenant-a7819386.html%3Famp

Couple of linked items