Scottish football ,at what level would their teams survive in English leagues

[not on facebook]

After yesterday's glasgow rangers getting knocked out of Europe by a bcasically pub football team ,at what level is Scottish football.

Iam sick of hearing Celtic fans sporting that their team would finish top six in the prem ,and it all seems to be biased on their fans passion at Celtic park with 60,000 sell outs.

Then we have the tal that likes of Celtic should be allowed to play their trade in the English prem.

Ok it would liven up the games but Iam not sold out on Celtic been in the prem.

Where do you think Celtic would finish in the prem?

What about other teams from up there likes of Aberdeen ,rangers. Hearts hibs ,which one of our leagues would they find their playing standards .

[Herbert Anchovy]

This is one of those subjects that crops up every few years!

As a kid I remember reading an article in a footie magazine (possibly Shoot!) on this subject and it was felt that Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen should be allowed to play in the English First Division. It could be argued that in the late 70's and early 80's Scottish football was in a much stronger place than it is now and perhaps these teams could have held their own. As for now, I'm not so sure. I suspect that they'd be a bottom third Premier league club at the very best.

[not on facebook]

Since Celtic won their last league title by going unbeaten and also with a shed load of points  difference I think it's gone to most Celtic fans heads that they would pish a top 4 or 6 in the prem.

All that they would bring to the prem is a interest factor ,but on the pitch they would find it a lot more harder than anticipated and they could only survive off the Scotland/England thing for so long.

As for other jock teams in our league you have to look below the prem for their standard .

[DonnyNoel]

I'd say there's two debates on this - 1 - where would the clubs be with the players they have now? 2 - where would the clubs be assuming more realistic scenario that once they entered the English setup they'd receive the giant TV pay packets compared to the peanuts they get now?

In answer to point 1, I guess we have to look at European performance and benchmark against English teams performances in the same competition. The conclusion wouldn't be too favourable for many Scottish sides but based on a few CL upsets maybe Celtic have a case to say they could do OK in the Premier League.

To answer to point 2, I don't have a problem with goingg by perceived size of the club. You'd expect a team with loyal support of over 50k to be able to do ok in the Premier League so Rangers and Celtic have a case. Likewise Hibs and Hearts could well be Championship clubs as could Aberdeen.

[RoversAlias]

Agreed DonnyNoel, it's two different scenarios. I believe if you dropped Celtic & Rangers in the Premier League they'd build a team that can compete for top 10 but with their current squads? I think Celtic would be a top end Championship club and everyone else in the Scottish Premiership would struggle in League One or below. I certainly think if you stuck DRFC in their league right now we'd have a good shot at finishing in their top 6.

[selby]

If we do play Aberdeen behind closed doors on Saturday, we may find out our standing together with theirs.

[IDM]

With their current squads I doubt the auld firm would succeed in the premier league, but with the tv money and buying a new squad, their ground sizes and fan bases, of course they could do well...

As for the others, the top sides could equate to championship level again with appropriate squads, with the occasional foray into the prem.

The part time lower league sides getting only a few hundred fans would struggle IMHO.

[drfchound]

I'd say there's two debates on this - 1 - where would the clubs be with the players they have now? 2 - where would the clubs be assuming more realistic scenario that once they entered the English setup they'd receive the giant TV pay packets compared to the peanuts they get now?

In answer to point 1, I guess we have to look at European performance and benchmark against English teams performances in the same competition. The conclusion wouldn't be too favourable for many Scottish sides but based on a few CL upsets maybe Celtic have a case to say they could do OK in the Premier League.

To answer to point 2, I don't have a problem with goingg by perceived size of the club. You'd expect a team with loyal support of over 50k to be able to do ok in the Premier League so Rangers and Celtic have a case. Likewise Hibs and Hearts could well be Championship clubs as could Aberdeen.

That is a good point mate, about them getting enough money to build a squad capable of surviving.
Who would have thought that Bournemouth could have done so well after they got promoted?

[DonnyOsmond]

Short term Celtic Championship, the rest League One and League Two. Aberdeen being the second best team will be a test for us but seeing as it's a friendly it could go either way. Long term those clubs have crowds to grow much bigger and Celtic could be Premier League too half.

[keith79]

Celtic with the TV money would be top 4

[wing commander]

I'm not so sure they would be...It would certainly take them a good number of years to manage it...I'm also not convinced the top players that would be required to achieve that would fancy a cold Tuesday night in Glasgow...But as with everything else money would probably talk...

[not on facebook]

Celtic with the TV money would be top 4

Last seasons too 4 Chelsea Spurs man city Liverpool > who Celtic knock out of that list.

Top six > Chelsea Spurs man city Liverpool arsenal man utd > who would Celtic replace out of that lot

Next 4 teams > Everton Southampton whoever fa and whoever fc > this is where Celtic will be fighting is my guess .

[Glyn_Wigley]

If you thought Arsenal fans were fickle, can you imagine what Celtic fans would be like if they went for several seasons and won sod all silverware?

[the vicar]

None of them should start at the top and not even in English football, as teams would have to drop down the pecking order to accommodate them

[George Carter]

I think with current squads Celtic would be an average championship side like a Bristol city or Leeds or something,, but TV money would probably turn them into a top club on or above newcastle's level.

Rangers and Aberdeen might beat a top end of league one but no higher atm,, and the rest including top end of the division below would be a right mixed bag of anything from the top end of league two to the conference.

As for the rest then theyd be in regional leagues as the standard seems that bad.

[sheffield exile1]

I went to Cowdenbeath v Arbroath a few years ago. About 300 there and an enjoyable match but not a grat deal of skill or finesse. Reminded me more of our conference days, but more basic and possibly a lower level. Excellent scotch pies at 50p and a reasonable pint of beer. Funnist moment was me in my carlotti Rovers hoodie on the station going back to Inverkeithing where I was staying and, on the other platform, a "gang" of about a dozen youths chanting "who are you" at me. First time I have ever been mistaken for an Arbroath fan!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Celtic can have all the TV money they like but they'll have the same problem a lot of other clubs have in attracting the best players - they're not in London or Manchester.

[Beerseller]

Woud the Auld Firm continue to attract 50,000 fans every match if they didn’t win anything for a few seasons?  I can imagine that for maybe three or four seasons the novelty factor would ensure that, whatever the results on the pitch, fans would continue to attend.

Five years on, if there was no silverware and if a mid-table finish or avoiding relegation was the only highlight, I suspect crowds would start to dwindle, particularly against less fashionable English clubs such as Bournemouth or Watford.

Additionally, what incentive would there be for the very best players to sign for a Scottish club rather than a top four (or even top six) English club when there was little or no prospect of European football or domestic trophies?

It seems to me that any Scottish club would have to secure almost immediate success (ie at the very least, a top six finish or a semi final spot in the FA or league cup) in order to start to attract the better players they would need to ensure that success continued long term.

[George Carter]

If they got bought by a rich foreigner owner then sky's the limit!!!  If they didnt then theyd be strangled by not having the same clout and fall into the Newcastle category where that to$$er is the owner

[not on facebook]

It's not just jock football that is playing its way back into sorry state of prospects .

Loki at the recent British lions squad against the all blacks > not one single jock in the squad.

Also Scotland have never won the six nations ever which I found hard to believe.

Jock cricket is non existent and they don't have any rugby league to cheer them up.

Alan wells is now past it as they only seem to have mr Murray to wave their flag and cry 'freedom'

This is all on sturgeons watch so I blame that little shit bag

[NickDRFC]

Not quite true with the rugby - Hogg would probably have started if not injured. They performed very well in the six nations and have definitely improved over the last couple of years.

[not on facebook]

Not quite true with the rugby - Hogg would probably have started if not injured. They performed very well in the six nations and have definitely improved over the last couple of years.

IF my aunt had bolllocks she be me Uncle fella.

They might have performed better in six nations of late ,but that still don't take away fact that Scotland has never won the six nations which shocked me ,as I only learnt that yesterday.

[Illgresi]

Hi there, Aberdeen fan here. Was checking out your forum to see if there was any info on todays friendly. I ended up registering because I wanted to reply to this thread!

Aberdeen won 2 - 0, goals from Rooney and Maynard, although we started without a couple of key players. I haven't heard any opinion on performances though, and nothing about Doncaster, sorry.

As far as the topic goes, it's difficult to say with any certainty of course but I'd rate the teams as following:

Celtic - Lower EPL, they're better than the perennial yoyo teams such as Hull, but not quite at the level to push into the top half imo.
Aberdeen - Top half Championship, pushing for playoffs (assuming we get the manager's top transfer targets that is i.e. Maloney).
Rangers - Hard to say given they basically have a half a new team of foreigners, and a manager who so far seems like a special new breed of puddle drinker. Based on last season though, I'd say they rode their luck massively, and finished far above where their talent merits, so I'd say lower Championship, flirting with relegation.
St. Johnstone - Epitomise the phrase agricultural football. Very well organised and physical, which would suit the lower leagues down there albeit without the pace and technique to thrive in the championship. I'd say upper bottom half of the Championship, but still constantly in danger of relegation.
Hearts - Were a solid if unspectacular team under Neilson, but Cathro struggled to get them to perform. They've certainly made some intriguing signings, especially Berra, and if Cathro can get his ideas across I think they'll be strong again. On that basis I'd place them mid-table Championship.
Partick Thistle, Ross County, and Kilmarnock - All roughly upper half League One.
Motherwell, and Dundee - Lower half League One.
Hamilton - Upper League Two
Hibernian - Just promoted, but they have a solid team, and a decent manager (albeit a complete bawbag). I'd say Championship relegation/League One winners ish.

Anyway, all the best for the season.

[not on facebook]

Thank you very much for your input mr illgresi

[Illgresi]

Thank you very much for your input mr illgresi

Thanks for allowing me the chance to contribute my opinion! It's all conjecture, and as I say, it's very difficult to form an accurate picture of how teams from other countries would fare against each other. I know the opinion of Scottish football in England is almost like a pub league, and granted it's far from perfect (in so, so many ways), but I'm excited about the direction it's heading. Many teams now are really focusing on technique, and playing football the 'right way', sometimes even to their detriment. In some ways, the lack of money in Scottish football is even a good thing, as clubs tend to be less premature in firing managers, and allow them time to build squads (albeit almost exclusively through free transfers!).

If anyone's interested, I'm available to provide wildly biased opinion on all matters Scottish football. All the best!

[andysly]

Maybe just look at a few of the players we've released into Scottish football. 
Lewis Guy in SPL for St Mirren
Heffs in SPL for Kilmarnock & others in SPL
Shiels - Killie in SPL + Rangers
Forrester - Rangers in SPL

All did reasonably well up there but weren't good enough for a low Championship/ struggling L1 side.

[RedJ]

Shiels and Forrester had the ability but lacked the bulk and attitude respectively to do well.

I won't start on Heffernan.

[drfchound]

What was wrong with Heffernan?

[balbyrover]

I thought Heffernan was a cracking servant for the club,let himself massively at Southend in the playoffs and I think after that SOD never really wanted him about.

I liked Sheils and never thought of him as having a attitude problem, he was just a decent league one player; Agreed on Forrester though.. all the talent in the world but he just doesn't have the desire. He was sensational against Coventry at the KM i think it was.

[The Red Baron]

I went to Cowdenbeath v Arbroath a few years ago. About 300 there and an enjoyable match but not a grat deal of skill or finesse. Reminded me more of our conference days, but more basic and possibly a lower level. Excellent scotch pies at 50p and a reasonable pint of beer. Funnist moment was me in my carlotti Rovers hoodie on the station going back to Inverkeithing where I was staying and, on the other platform, a "gang" of about a dozen youths chanting "who are you" at me. First time I have ever been mistaken for an Arbroath fan!

I used to make regular trips to Scotland and always enjoyed them. The main thing was not to worry about the quality of football on display. Love the Scotch Pies, although I don't think they are good for the waistline.

I once wore my DRFC shirt at Hamilton and was mistaken for a local. Also had an Albion Rovers director apologise for the standard of the football. In fact I'd enjoyed the game a great deal.