brexit-poll-new-eu-leave-regret-remain-yougov-times-poll

[SydneyRover]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-new-eu-leave-regret-remain-yougov-times-latest-theresa-may-bad-idea-a8000156.html

[Donnywolf]

Well that goes some way to answering my hypothetical question posed just a few days ago on a separate thread ....... and here is what I asked




I KNOW this can never happen (and will probably open another can of worms) BUT if it were possible to ask this question of all today's electorate ....

..... do you wish to continue with an exit from the EU having seen all what has unfolded since the original vote was held and where we are currently ?

I reckon personally that it would be much higher that the original "Remain" vote was but as I say that is just my own very humble opinion ! It cant happen !

I cant also imagine what the News would have been talking about if we had voted Remain in the Referendum. Unless of course it was the infighting amongst the "losing" Politicians who were pressing for a second Referendum having been at it since we joined the Common Market

[SydneyRover]

Anything can happen if the people of Britain want it badly enough.

[Dagenham Rover]

Looks like theyve already got rid of us    Interesting read

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4979466/ROBERT-HARDMAN-does-EU-s-new-museum-ignore-Britain.html

[Filo]

I have no regrets voting to leave, I would n't have been bitter either had we voted to stay. For me the brexit negotians show us why we should be out, negotiations by definition are talks by opposing sides based on finding some common ground involving concessions by either side. I see no sign of concessions from the EU side, just demands and vieled threats

[hoolahoop]

You don't get it do you Filo these are commitments that we signed up to , they have their own people's lives to protect , there are certain intricacies re, the triangle of the UK, Ireland and N.Ireland that need sorting out properly - it's a dangerous region with an obviously dangerous recent past to be taken into account.

The threats have been all ours , don't you listen or read anything ? We threaten albeit subtly that we will withdraw from security sharing , use of our armed forces to " protect " them ( what a joke ! ).

Continually we use divisive language, deride their court , threaten to deport furriners illegally by the dozen, try and use loss of their trade profit to lessen the bill we have signed up to and ........they threaten us ffs Filo wake up !!

Stop reading the shite newspapers - they have been filling you with hate, falsehoods , exaggerations  for years . 

[DonnyOsmond]

I didn't vote for it but why turn back? Did people think it would be a quick 10 minute thing that wouldn't cost us a penny?

I'm not sure why the government hasn't been promoting new businesses in the UK so we're making our own goods for when prices get hiked up.

[hoolahoop]

Oh and look closer to home for your real enemy - the Tory Party . They conned people in Thatcher's time and they are still doing it and you are still buying it .
The only attempts to rebuild the north of England have come through the EU otherwise those " EU Regeneration " boards you must have passed trying to rebuild our County would never have been on your taxi runs.
If you didn't see them - it was because you had already decided to dismiss them because their/our work and money was inconvenient to your way of looking at the world .
Left to both the Tory AND, I hasten to add, the Labour Party ; the North / South divide would be even larger !

Finally contrast our cleaner beaches, rivers , stocked up seas and other environmental controls to that we had 40 years ago .......Yes it was the evil EU empire that was behind all that too. Again you will NEVER admit it because it doesn't suit and now you , like others, in the face of the Unions , CBI, and virtually every leading organisation's advice are happy to wreck, isolate and  undo all  this country has achieved whilst a member of this organisation.

You make my piss boil, especially when Leavers suggest it is ' Remoaners ' ( childish word ) who are selling this country out and not being patriotic.

I wouldn't get behind this lot if they were the very last thing between me and that cliff edge . Watch Clinton on Marr today and you will hear that the Russians were behind Brexit too prior to the Trump fiasco. I wonder why ? 

[hoolahoop]

Btw it should be " the will of the (majority of) people "- Christ how that annoys me when repeated like a mantra.   If this goes through - I want people to know as dissatisfied as I am with some of what has and wouldn't happen whilst in the EU ; This masochistic shite is not on me and is down to you Empire makers soon to live in Trump's glorious world with prancing unicorns and the world enthralled by  the power of the British Empire regaining the sovereignty it admitted it ALWAYS had . Rule Britannia and all that .

[del boy]

Oh and look closer to home for your real enemy - the Tory Party . They conned people in Thatcher's time and they are still doing it and you are still buying it .
The only attempts to rebuild the north of England have come through the EU otherwise those " EU Regeneration " boards you must have passed trying to rebuild our County would never have been on your taxi runs.
If you didn't see them - it was because you had already decided to dismiss them because their/our work and money was inconvenient to your way of looking at the world .
Left to both the Tory AND, I hasten to add, the Labour Party ; the North / South divide would be even larger !

Finally contrast our cleaner beaches, rivers , stocked up seas and other environmental controls to that we had 40 years ago .......Yes it was the evil EU empire that was behind all that too. Again you will NEVER admit it because it doesn't suit and now you , like others, in the face of the Unions , CBI, and virtually every leading organisation's advice are happy to wreck, isolate and  undo all  this country has achieved whilst a member of this organisation.

You make my piss boil, especially when Leavers suggest it is ' Remoaners ' ( childish word ) who are selling this country out and not being patriotic.

I wouldn't get behind this lot if they were the very last thing between me and that cliff edge . Watch Clinton on Marr today and you will hear that the Russians were behind Brexit too prior to the Trump fiasco. I wonder why ?

It really puzzles me why Theresa May hasn't got this brexit sorted yet as Hoolahoop, Glyn Wigley and Redj could sort it all in a fortnight as they seem to be the only ones who can 100% predict the future after brexit.

[Hounslowrover]

I'd have thought it was the Brexiteers who could have it sorted, not the remainders.  In July 2016 Davis wrote " So be under no doubt, we can do deals with our trading partners, and we can do them quickly...I would expect most of them to be concluded within between 12 and 24 months."
Fox predicted that a free trade deal with the EU "should be one of the easiest in human history".
Redwood said"Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards".
Not to mention Johnson and "having our cake and eating it" and "they can whistle" for their money.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Just because I 100% predicted it was going to be an almighty mess and not as simplistic as many Brexiters seem to think it would be it doesn't mean the onus is on me to sort it all out for those of you who voted for it. That's your job. Any answers?

[wilts rover]

I'm not sure why the government hasn't been promoting new businesses in the UK so we're making our own goods for when prices get hiked up.

Because whatever they say in the media that isn't a big priority for them. What free trade means is that if you can get widgets cheaper from Cambodia - you get widgets from Cambodia. If you can get steel cheaper from China, you get steel from China. That what capitalism is and does. The only way businesses would open here is if we can produce widgets or steel cheaper than Cambodia or China.

The ultimate aim of the far right, free trade Brexiters is to recreate Britain as a low tax, low regulation economy. Where moving money about is all that matters, hedge funds thrive and the wealthy get to keep more of their wealth. Like Singapore or Panama.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/31/turning-brexit-britain-tax-haven-would-make-us-richer-cant-philip/

We will probably still keep making bombs and drugs tho.

[Filo]

Btw it should be " the will of the (majority of) people "- Christ how that annoys me when repeated like a mantra.   If this goes through - I want people to know as dissatisfied as I am with some of what has and wouldn't happen whilst in the EU ; This masochistic shite is not on me and is down to you Empire makers soon to live in Trump's glorious world with prancing unicorns and the world enthralled by  the power of the British Empire regaining the sovereignty it admitted it ALWAYS had . Rule Britannia and all that .

Go and have a lie down mate 😀

[Yargo]

Btw it should be " the will of the (majority of) people "- Christ how that annoys me when repeated like a mantra.   If this goes through - I want people to know as dissatisfied as I am with some of what has and wouldn't happen whilst in the EU ; This masochistic shite is not on me and is down to you Empire makers soon to live in Trump's glorious world with prancing unicorns and the world enthralled by  the power of the British Empire regaining the sovereignty it admitted it ALWAYS had . Rule Britannia and all that .

Go and have a lie down mate 😀

Or twelve months in the psychiatrists chair ala Stubbs.
Britain began to leave the EU when it didn't join the single currency and its preparations for joining effectively ended when it had to exit the Exchange Rate Mechanism of the European Monetary System in '92

[wilts rover]

Ah, we began to leave 12 months before the EU was formed - that was clever of us.

The Maastricht Treaty, which came into effect on 1st November 1993, was the founding document of the EU. Prior to that it was the EEC.

[i_ateallthepies]

I'm not sure why the government hasn't been promoting new businesses in the UK so we're making our own goods for when prices get hiked up.

Because whatever they say in the media that isn't a big priority for them. What free trade means is that if you can get widgets cheaper from Cambodia - you get widgets from Cambodia. If you can get steel cheaper from China, you get steel from China. That what capitalism is and does. The only way businesses would open here is if we can produce widgets or steel cheaper than Cambodia or China.

The ultimate aim of the far right, free trade Brexiters is to recreate Britain as a low tax, low regulation economy. Where moving money about is all that matters, hedge funds thrive and the wealthy get to keep more of their wealth. Like Singapore or Panama.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/31/turning-brexit-britain-tax-haven-would-make-us-richer-cant-philip/

We will probably still keep making bombs and drugs tho.

So, we didn't need Brexit after all, it's already been that way for years.

[SydneyRover]

How the hell would May ever sort this mess out when she can't control her own party which is mainly made up of self interested rent seekers. Cameron thought this was a good idea instead of trying to sort out all the underlying problems. Britain's problems of jobs, class, north-south divide, etc will only ever be solved politically and to do that the people need to control the political system. Taking Britain out of Europe will see most of the existing problems worsen, so what's in Brexit for the average person or family? probably very little, but what's in it for those that are driving Brexit, and I don't mean the followers I mean those at the top of the heap, that's what you have to look at why they want to get rid of all those laws conditions others spoke of that force governments to look to the welfare of the citizens.

[Glyn_Wigley]

How the hell would May ever sort this mess out when she can't control her own party which is mainly made up of self interested rent seekers. Cameron thought this was a good idea instead of trying to sort out all the underlying problems. Britain's problems of jobs, class, north-south divide, etc will only ever be solved politically and to do that the people need to control the political system. Taking Britain out of Europe will see most of the existing problems worsen, so what's in Brexit for the average person or family? probably very little, but what's in it for those that are driving Brexit, and I don't mean the followers I mean those at the top of the heap, that's what you have to look at why they want to get rid of all those laws conditions others spoke of that force governments to look to the welfare of the citizens.

Well, Private Eye did make a point during the referendum campaign that the EU was in the process of giving wide-ranging powers to its members states' tax investigators to be able to access international financial information as part of its anti-money laundering and anti-tax avoidance strategy, which they thought went some way to explaining why the owners of several newspapers pushed for their readers to vote 'out' as strongly as they did.

[hoolahoop]

Looks like theyve already got rid of us    Interesting read

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4979466/ROBERT-HARDMAN-does-EU-s-new-museum-ignore-Britain.html

How very " Daily Mail " , this is the problem we want praise for winning both WW1 & WW2 ALL on our own.
I don't think this museum was creating a Nazi shrine anymore than it was there to promote the demonisation of the German nation. Why would they create a museum that would become a focal point for every Nazi like group in Europe to make a pilgrimage too ?

I would have thought that constantly ramming the sins of their fathers bit down the throats of the modern German people would be counter- productive and not in the spirit of an evolving Europe.
As a child in the early 1960's , we were stationed in Germany and the TV showed images and newsreels 24/7 of the atrocities carried out by Germans and rightly so . Do they need a museum to do that now after 80 years ?

Seems to me that some want to stay firmly rooted in the past ( early 20th century )  or even 19th century .

Shouldn't we learn from this and simply forge futures firmly in the 21st century either inside or outside the project or do we still have to sing ......'10 German bombers ' etc for ever more . This is why we can't get behind the project that is now the EU and would love it to fail .
It's more like - we will fail if we don't stop living in the past and remember this if a conquered mainland Europe who after all WERE under the yoke of the Nazi/Germans and ALL lost millions can get on with it then what is our problem ? Is it the fact that we still cling onto our Empire and blame the loss of that as well on the Germans - that being the case when if ever does it stop ?

Should we build an exhibition castigating ourselves for the injustices of Indian Partition , the Opium wars , the creation of the Penal Colony that has become modern Australia, Iraq , Afghanistan , Syria and of course slavery or should we look ahead . Some would say these are in the past but still have ramifications today but we certainly haven't built a museum where we can all self-flaggelate in .

The EU is  NOT about the way that ALL the Empire builders behaved but a vision of a future that we have decided that we don't want most parts of rightly or wrongly.

It's not unpatriotic to want to move on given the behaviour of most if not all of the European nations around the world . 

[SydneyRover]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-oecd-eu-referendum-second-economy-reverse-uk-europe-theresa-may-latest-a8004676.html

The OECD analysis suggests a “no-deal” Brexit would wipe up to a staggering £40bn off UK economic growth by 2019.

The UK economy will grow 1.5 per cent slower in 2019 if the country crashes out of the EU without a trade deal or a transition deal with the bloc in March 2019, it said.

[MachoMadness]

"Fed up of listening to experts".

If Brexit is stopped, it'll have to be quietly dropped by whoever is in power as I'm not convinced another referendum would hold a different result. A lot of Remain voters simply can't be arsed with it any more and just want to get on with it. A lot of Leave voters are even more entrenched in their post-fact safe space as a result of "winning".

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-is-worth-family-members-losing-their-jobs-say-leave-voters-over-65_uk_59806ffae4b00bb8ff3975bb

This is an example of that. Half of Leave voters over the age of 65 would be happy for a family member to lose their job if it meant Brexit went ahead. 2 in 5 Leave voters overall would be happy for this to happen.

As a friend of mine succinctly put it, how do you get through to that kind of Kitson?

The link also points out 1 in 5 Remain voters want the economy to tank to teach Leave voters a lesson, which is also Kitsony but backs up my point about the Remain turnout being lower if a second referendum happened.

[IDM]

Why oh why did we have a vote, when we didn't know what we were voting for and still don't??  Had brexit been properly defined, maybe leave would have had a bigger majority, maybe not.

Regardless of the outcome, it was a foolish process..  At least with a general election if the government in power fails to deliver, we can vote them out next time.  where's that safety net with brexit??

As not the nine o'clock news once said...

"its like a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat...


...that isn't there!"

[SydneyRover]

" Taking Britain out of Europe will see most of the existing problems worsen, so what's in Brexit for the average person or family? probably very little, but what's in it for those that are driving Brexit, and I don't mean the followers I mean those at the top of the heap, that's what you have to look at why they want to get rid of all those laws conditions others spoke of that force governments to look to the welfare of the citizens"

The above was part of my post the other day and the following is what alarms me the most about Brexit, who were the movers and shakers behind it?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/19/mp-calls-for-inquiry-into-arron-banks-and-dark-money-in-eu-referendum

[Geoff Blakesley]

Why oh why did we have a vote, when we didn't know what we were voting for and still don't??  Had brexit been properly defined, maybe leave would have had a bigger majority, maybe not.

Regardless of the outcome, it was a foolish process..  At least with a general election if the government in power fails to deliver, we can vote them out next time.  where's that safety net with brexit??

As not the nine o'clock news once said...

"its like a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat...


...that isn't there!"

Err that knob Cameron's idea I think - to make him seem like a real man of the people - but they shat on him and all of us that thought we are better united than divided.

[not on facebook]

I doubt this will ever happen but you never quite know  do you as trump got in and UK did vote for brexit ,after all the experts were saying that the two mentioned would NEVER NEVER happen.

How would you all feal if whoever brought the country to heal, and brought in another referendum on  the brexit situation ?

[Jenny]

My work will be heavily impacted by Brexit and as such I've listened to endless streams of professionals pass their opinion on it. The most recent was at a seminar & they were utterly convinced that the government and the civil service simply do not have the resource or expertise to deliver a clean brexit. I think we are in for a very rocky road over the next couple of years, as this is going to drag on until at least 2021.

[Glyn_Wigley]

My work will be heavily impacted by Brexit and as such I've listened to endless streams of professionals pass their opinion on it. The most recent was at a seminar & they were utterly convinced that the government and the civil service simply do not have the resource or expertise to deliver a clean brexit. I think we are in for a very rocky road over the next couple of years, as this is going to drag on until at least 2021.

They certainly don't have the expertise - most of the civil servants in Liam Fox's department had to be forcibly seconded there because no-one wanted to go voluntarily as they thought it was career suicide.

[hoolahoop]

The argument now being used by the Brickshitters is that extra revenue from  imports from the EU will simply be collected by HMRC under WTO trading rules . I can't see how that affects the German / French/ Italian car importers - we NEED  their product  and will see cars being sold at inflated prices and ......we will still buy them  !

[Bentley Bullet]

The argument now being used by the Brickshitters is that extra revenue from  imports from the EU will simply be collected by HMRC under WTO trading rules . I can't see how that affects the German / French/ Italian car importers - we NEED  their product  and will see cars being sold at inflated prices and ......we will still buy them  !

"Brickshitters" aye, not bad coming from a bloke who says "Remoaners" is a childish word!

How will we buy cars at inflated prices when we're all skint because of the effects of Brexit?