Doncaster Rovers Ltd - accounts y/e 2017

[vaya]

In the old days the club's accounts showed far more detail, including the the overall playing side wage bill, income from attendances etc.
Is there any reason the club currently does not want to disclose more to its supporters?
 

Crazy. Next they'll not be disclosing things about Central American-based hedge funds.

[Lifelong supporter]

It's a perfectly valid question and it really is amazing that when all you are requesting is greater transparency that people seem to want to close ranks.

[Filo]

It's a perfectly valid question and it really is amazing that when all you are requesting is greater transparency that people seem to want to close ranks.

Why were you not requesting greater transparency when a dodgy hedge fund was involved?

[RedJ]

It's a perfectly valid question

That had already been answered.

[Jonathan]

I think I’d like to understand the basis of the question, Lifelong Supporter. Why do you really want to know and what would be the benefit of finding out? Are you actually trying to imply that they’re covering up the details of the wage bill as the club is no longer remunerating its playing staff adequately? I think you know that’s not the case so you're just objectionably shit stirring for the sake of it, yet again.

[glosterred]

Never really understood why the average fan has any interest in the accounts, years gone by we never saw or heard about them. Did it change us from being fans, not one iota. So why now?


COYR

[RedJ]

And most fans haven't got a f**king clue how to read or interpret accounts anyway.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Just another stick to beat the board with! Trying anywhichway to prove they are spendthrift owners. Quite ironic really as mentioned above about the transparency of the two takeovers, stringing people along he dearly wanted to believe they were the answer to our prayers. Even Louis Tomlinson said he'd been misled.

It's about time some folk found something else to do and left the powers that be to get on with managing the finances the best they can. Pumping in extra millions in here and there isn't going to happen. Until some genuine new money comes along any progress we make will be down to good honest business and management principles.

[Lifelong supporter]

Like I said the hysteria in response is quite astonishing.
Just to answer one or two points as no-one seems to be able to answer mine.

Filo: I think I did. But if I didn't it shouldn't preclude me from making the same request now.
Red J: If the question has already been answered I apologise. Must have missed it. Just post me a link.
Jonathan: I'm not implying anything, or stirring anything. In fact you can't stir anything if there is nothing there to stir. I made a point that we used to get far more detail and wondered why we didn't now, that's all.
glosterred: Actually, years gone by the accounts were always available at the annual shareholders meeting and reported in the newspaper so we did see and hear about them. However good or bad they were it wouldn't change me from being a fan either.
RedJ: I've heard it said that most fans don't have a clue about football either but it doesn't stop them watching or commenting about it.
DonnyBazROver: Far from looking for sticks to beat the board with I've said many times before I think we have some good directors and we should be grateful for their benevolence. But that should never mean they should not be open to question and even criticism at times. Finally, my understanding of the word spendthrift is someone who spends money extravagantly, irresponsibly or recklessly and I would never accuse the owners of that, let alone try to prove it!

[wesisback]

A couple of things to note, there's loads of examples of clubs managing to tip the balance in this League and get promoted on miles smaller budgets and even more examples of those with massive budgets failing miserably, I don't think it's that important as a benchmark of the Owners intentions.
Despite reading this post, I'm no wiser as to why they wouldn't include that information. It may not be relevant to us as supporters and may create moaning but i don't think anyone would look at £2million put in for the last financial year and truly expect to be squeezing somebody else's money for free.
It was the start of last season that Gavin Baldwin stated we had a competitive budget which was vague at best as it didn't state competitive against what ambition. If it was promotion you would expect it would be behind Blackburn and Wigan (obviously) But similar to the pack that follows behind should we wish to compete for the Championship. We've lost a number of big earners this year with Williams and Evina on a decent sum and Baudry potentially not far behind. The players that we bring in this year should give us a good indication of whether we're looking at a wage reduction or not.

[the vicar]

Never really understood why the average fan has any interest in the accounts, years gone by we never saw or heard about them. Did it change us from being fans, not one iota. So why now?


COYR

it does not change our lives knowing It dunt even change us being fans , as you say it's a need to know thing and we don't need to know

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

A couple of things to note, there's loads of examples of clubs managing to tip the balance in this League and get promoted on miles smaller budgets and even more examples of those with massive budgets failing miserably, I don't think it's that important as a benchmark of the Owners intentions.
Despite reading this post, I'm no wiser as to why they wouldn't include that information. It may not be relevant to us as supporters and may create moaning but i don't think anyone would look at £2million put in for the last financial year and truly expect to be squeezing somebody else's money for free.
It was the start of last season that Gavin Baldwin stated we had a competitive budget which was vague at best as it didn't state competitive against what ambition. If it was promotion you would expect it would be behind Blackburn and Wigan (obviously) But similar to the pack that follows behind should we wish to compete for the Championship. We've lost a number of big earners this year with Williams and Evina on a decent sum and Baudry potentially not far behind. The players that we bring in this year should give us a good indication of whether we're looking at a wage reduction or not.

Because they don't have to and full accounts take more time and money. Why do it if it's not needed? Also in a competitive market keep it confidential if you can.

[TheFunk]

99.99% of companies in the land submit abbreviated accounts. Why would anyone give more information than they had to to competitors.

[wesisback]

A couple of things to note, there's loads of examples of clubs managing to tip the balance in this League and get promoted on miles smaller budgets and even more examples of those with massive budgets failing miserably, I don't think it's that important as a benchmark of the Owners intentions.
Despite reading this post, I'm no wiser as to why they wouldn't include that information. It may not be relevant to us as supporters and may create moaning but i don't think anyone would look at £2million put in for the last financial year and truly expect to be squeezing somebody else's money for free.
It was the start of last season that Gavin Baldwin stated we had a competitive budget which was vague at best as it didn't state competitive against what ambition. If it was promotion you would expect it would be behind Blackburn and Wigan (obviously) But similar to the pack that follows behind should we wish to compete for the Championship. We've lost a number of big earners this year with Williams and Evina on a decent sum and Baudry potentially not far behind. The players that we bring in this year should give us a good indication of whether we're looking at a wage reduction or not.

Because they don't have to and full accounts take more time and money. Why do it if it's not needed? Also in a competitive market keep it confidential if you can.

I'm no accountant so I don't have the knowledge you will have but I'd imagine anything declared on this report would be wage turnover for all colleagues within the business. Obviously the only area most of us would be bothered about would be the playing budget.
For me, the 'competitive' wording needs a bit of meat adding to the bones. What is it competitive for? If the aim this season is a top 6 finish, does that equate to a top 6 budget?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Exactly. Talking about budgets is a complete waste of time because non of us can translate it in to whether it's a promotion budget or relegation budget.

We need a midfield General. Should we be able to pick one up who costs 2k a week, 3k, 4k, 5k, 6k? We do not have a clue. Makes me laugh when folk say 'we can't afford him' etc.

Well, we can afford Coppinger, Butler, Rowe and Marquis who have to be up there as top players in the division.

[VSC]

For some years now we have met with the club when the accounts have been released, we've been able to table questions and discuss the items that we see as relevant. I can't remember when so many questions and debate has happened around this, therefore I feel a little clarification is called for.

Any good supporters trust will have as its main areas of concern the governance of the club, its ownership and shareholdings, and above all the financial viability of that football club. And that's the reason we meet and discuss these issues. We want to be assured that the club is in good hands, that its financially stable and to also see its direction of travel.

That's why the questions, and the report you see in the OP, is structured the way it is. We are concerned about ownership and shareholdings, along with current financial issues. What we are not concerned with is the size of the budget, and therefore all questions about playing matters are not important in a report like this. Its an overview, a snapshot of the club at a moment in time, and one that enables us to base our opinion on what we can see and hear.

And from those meetings its quite clear the club is in great hands. We are debt free! How many clubs can say that? There are no outstanding loans, no fear of administration through organisational or ownership changes, and to top it all a stadium that generates significant revenue streams that can only benefit us in the future. When has this club ever been able to do any of that in the past?

[Cantley Rover]

Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.

[vaya]

Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.

Those are possibly questions for a Meet the Owners event. You could ask them there directly.

[DonnyOsmond]

Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.

Those are possibly questions for a Meet the Owners event. You could ask them there directly.

Yeah. You're not going to get the answer to the future budget in the accounts for a previous year.

[RedJ]

Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.

Good to see you totally ignored the post then. And you obviously don't understand how things work if you genuinely think the board and/or manager are going to tell the world how much we have to spend.

[idler]

I always get the feeling that if I tell a salesman exactly what I wanted to spend on a car, kitchen glazing etc. I would end up paying that price for something that I might have got cheaper.
Telling clubs your budget lets them and agents hype up the price in my eyes.

[steve@dcfd]

Budget and wages are irrelevant if we sign quality league 1 players in the summer. Gavin says the plan is to build for a consolidated Championship side by 2022. Therefore we need to start with improving the squad this upcoming season.

Whether it’s a big squad or small squad there must be at least 18 players who are up to league 1 standard. We need another 4/5 to get there. 4 is the minimum for me 1 centre half, 2 midfield players and a striker(the hardest and costliest). I would like those to be our players.

So to the VSC and the club it’s good we have a stable and debt free club. At the end of season 2017.  What last season accounts show may be the same?
But that on its own won’t get us up the league won’t attract more supporters. We need to see results and performances Home is the preference but Away as well.

[Cantley Rover]

Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.

Good to see you totally ignored the post then. And you obviously don't understand how things work if you genuinely think the board and/or manager are going to tell the world how much we have to spend.

]

Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.

Good to see you totally ignored the post then. And you obviously don't understand how things work if you genuinely think the board and/or manager are going to tell the world how much we have to spend.

Nobody asked how much or what amount of money we have to spend. Learn to read and stop being a brown nose.

[RedJ]

So "is there going to be any more money for the manager" isn't asking how much we've got to spend?

They've already said the purpose of this wasn't anything to do with the playing budget, apologies for understanding the idea behind the report on the accounts x

[Cantley Rover]

So "is there going to be any more money for the manager" isn't asking how much we've got to spend?

They've already said the purpose of this wasn't anything to do with the playing budget, apologies for understanding the idea behind the report on the accounts x

Of course it isn't asking how much have we got to spend. Surely even you can see that?

[idler]

I'll have watched Rovers for sixty years in August and can't remember ever being told what we were going to spend.
Surely the manager will have identified targets and submitted his list to the board. They will tell DF how much he has and let him get on with it.
Should a bargain or too good to miss player come up then the Board might stretch the budget further.
Our guesses on any budget will probably only be confirmed once signings are made.

[Cantley Rover]

Some people are obsessed with "the budget".
Nowhere have I mentioned "the budget" I will repeat what I originally posted for those with a reading problem.
Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.

[RedJ]

Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.

[Cantley Rover]

Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.

I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.

[idler]

Have they said we will stand still financially though?
As far as squad size goes Evina and Lund were loaned out last season and Williams barely featured so better quality rather than larger numbers makes sense. Loan players will feature again and Danny Amos looks to be good enough to join match day squads.
The board came up with their five year plan so I'm sure when the season is a month in, and we have had a chance to judge our new signings we might have an answer.  What is ambition to one fan is stagnation to another. All we can do is wait and see.