Leaving the EU (I never use the B word if I can avoid it)

[hoolahoop]

This a heavy Leave area and no-one needs to leave their name so why broomstick, BB .....would they be savaged by " Remoaners " . Believe me " Leavers " you aren't  like ' buccaneers ' voting for an adventurous future - we are all going down the drain if this continues.

[selby]

  If you was a brexiteer all they have to do is organise pop concerts on all over the country on the day of the vote, remember Glastonbury.
  Hoola you could have gone to the friendly tonight to get depressed.

[StocktonRover]

Hoola / BST,
Prior to brexit I used to enjoy your postings and found them balance, amusing and interesting.
Im now sick to f**king death of your incessant patronising holier than though b*llocks on this and so many other threads where it gets dragged off topic into a brexit direction.

You’re assumption that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a numpty/fool or other derogatory term is counter productive as has been pointed out by others.
I am strongly behind the leave decision for a number of reasons that make sense to me but which I don’t feel the need to post for people like you to try and pick through and give your spin.

I suspect that there are a great deal more like me who feel the same.

We’re all entitled to our opinions but we don’t have to explain them, defend them or debate them if we don’t want to - so lay off the patronising attitude to anyone ( even those you’ve never met or spoken to) who doesn’t agree with your views.

Rant over and no desire to enter into debate.
 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Stockton

For the record, I have a lot of time for anyone who enters into a discussion on a topic. I’m sorry if presenting facts comes across as holier than thou, but there you go.

I could show you a dozen times that I’ve set out facts to address BB’s comment about the lack of a recession after the vote. I’ve done it respectfull and genuinely and never once had anything back but wisecracks.

Then you have Boomstick. Who regularly uses silly insukts in his posts. And yes I DID go over the top in responding to him. And I apologised publicly. And then he comes back using the same silly insults.

Those attitudes are ok? But me setting out facts is patronising b*llocks? Strange Times we’re living in.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.

[i_ateallthepies]

If taking the trouble to explain repeatedly, with indisputable fact and searingly clear logic why breaking from the EU will be a disaster for us is your idea of patronising then how about you try to explain with equally indisputable facts and clear logic why you think leaving would be better.  Perhaps then the debate could take on a tone more agreeable to you.

In all of these 70 pages I can only remember one Leave voter who has gone to the trouble of explaining his reason for voting to leave (Idler if I recall, because he didn't like the direction toward a federation he believed the Union was moving).  Fair enough, somebody with a thought out and reasoned explanation.  If there have been others then I can only say they didn't make a convincing case as I really don't remember any of them.  All I hear from the leave brigade is carping about being patronised instead of taking up the debate and making a convincing counter argument to support voting leave.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

As I’ve patiently explained a dozen times, our GDP growth dropped immediately by 1% after the vote. While the rest of the world was going through an unexpected boom and having GDP growth rates going up by more than 1%. It’s clear that, relative to the rest of the world, our growth rate shrank by 2% or more. Which, had we not been buoyed by the global mini boom, would have put us into official recession.

It’s perfectly clear and unarguable. We’ve lost a huge amount of wealth directly because of the vote. The fact that this has not resulted in a formal recession is totally secondary. Ignoring the facts of what has actually happened and focussing on the semantics of a word is over such a hugely important issue is, to me, a strange stance to take.

Hopefully that won’t come across as holier than thou patronising b*llocks.

[wilts rover]

I think there were two more pies; aidanstu who wanted government support for the steel industry and darrenw who was disenchanted with the state of the country, so fair play to them too (will those posters excuse me if I have quoted them incorrectly).

I dont have anything more to say other than what has already been said. Wes and pies make some good points, much of the rest is rambling and ranting over the same old ground, except to keep repeating we can't go back to June 2016. There's no time machine. It's fairly clear no deal is economic and social madness (what colour should the new ration books be?) but so would trying to turn the clock back. In a poll at the weekend 38% of people said they would support a new far-right party, 38%!! You think it can't get worse, oh yes it can.

[MachoMadness]

Genuine question here to those who think the Remoaners are patronising are holier than thou and all the rest. How ARE we supposed to make our argument?

If someone constantly repeats something that's objectively false - such as, say, that we had no control over immigration from the EU - how should we challenge that point without being patronising? How else can you deconstruct someone's argument other than laying out facts, based on evidence, logic, and expert studies? How should we respond when someone keeps repeating things that aren't true? If someone tells you that the sky is green and grass is blue, do you just sit there and let them repeat it over and over without challenging it because everyone's entitled to an opinion?

These are all genuine questions, I'm not trying to be sarcastic even with that last one, just using a metaphor to get my point across.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Excellent post MM. You put it far better than I have done, and far less confrontationally.

And THIS is why it matters.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44959300

Read that. Stop and thing what is going on in politics across the world. Stop and think about Trump saying tonight “What you are reading and hearing is not what is happening.” And if everyone is not at least a tiny bit nervous about the implication of that, the implications being that criticism is always false and facts are pliable to suit your aims, then I really do fear for where we are heading.

[hoolahoop]

I'm still remain but I can easily see why people would change their vote from remain to leave. This forum sums it up perfectly, the snotty attitudes of the Remain voters, to the point of patronising.
I've said for a while that the Leave vote would increase in a second referendum though you wouldn't think it from looking at the monotonous pages on Brexit on here or most social media apps. It's called an echo chamber.

Don't be daft Wes this all started with a gobshite called Farage and his mates from the Alt Right . The gobbing off continued from thereonin. Rich blokes with their hedge funds to protect, outside agents from Russia shoving loads of cash at them to destroy Europe with a view to benefit both Putin and Trump in the medium to long term . Guess what it worked .
Separating  us off as a nuclear power and pivot between France and Germany then left the whole of Europe at their mercy.
Who suffers the poor , the weak , the disabled from the lies  they have been  spouting ? If pointing all that and more out is patronising then what were people supposed to do . You know the ones labelled " moaners " from the very start Wes ?  It's not patronising to try and point your position out especially on such an important subject. Project Fear will soon begin - do you think we enjoy pointing that out WE  SUFFER AS WELL !!

 " Remoaners " ffs people get a grip , we were for once in a century actually BENEFITTING from EU Re - Development funds in this region . Money that for generations had been raised here for the Exchequer had gone to London and the South- West - we NEVER got our share back ever. Our infrastructure crumbled, factories and mines closed and guess what  - decades long imbalances were starting to be re- addressed . 

[hoolahoop]

  If you was a brexiteer all they have to do is organise pop concerts on all over the country on the day of the vote, remember Glastonbury.
  Hoola you could have gone to the friendly tonight to get depressed.

I'm not depressed - I'm angry that our politicians have let our people down .

[hoolahoop]

BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.

Tell that to our people who live abroad and here that travel . What was once a £1000 to them is now only £800 Just because the £ has devalued - holidays are dearer, rates of exchange are weaker, companies are starting to pull out or no re- investing  and we haven't even left yet . That's not patronising bollox that's factual .

Stockton nobody has been patronising , must admit I don't like the " Remoaner " label either but I don't whinge about it . If you don't want to enter the debate that's your choice entirely , shame you don't want to see what the " moaners and unpatriotic " half of the population have to say but that's how entrenched some are on both sides. I'm sorry if I have upset you in any way by discussing with like- minded people OFF- TOPIC  the future well being of our country .

[DonnyOsmond]

Looking forward to my rationing book.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Looking forward to my rationing book.

Will it be blue though?

[SydneyRover]

BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.

Heres some light reading for those that doubt what Brexit will bring:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-800-worse-off-households-food-poverty-inflation-a8064286.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/poverty-britain-joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-theresa-may-social-mobility-commission-million-a8089491.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/04/britain-society-inequality-trade-brexit-is-not-the-way

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/brexiters-vote-poverty-even-worse-than-austerity

https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/02/news/economy/child-poverty-brexit-uk/index.html

https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2016/brexit-britain-poor-man-western-europe

[hoolahoop]

Looking forward to my rationing book.

Who says you are getting one ? It's the old and wisest at the front of  the queue

Cue the patronising complaints - I'm only joking hence the............

[hoolahoop]

BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.

Heres some light reading for those that doubt what Brexit will bring:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-800-worse-off-households-food-poverty-inflation-a8064286.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/poverty-britain-joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-theresa-may-social-mobility-commission-million-a8089491.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/04/britain-society-inequality-trade-brexit-is-not-the-way

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/brexiters-vote-poverty-even-worse-than-austerity

https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/02/news/economy/child-poverty-brexit-uk/index.html

https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2016/brexit-britain-poor-man-western-europe

FAKE NEWS the lot of it Sydney - none of it comes from The Mail/ Express/Sun.

[Bentley Bullet]

 Petrol rationing books were issued during the 1973 oil crisis.

They were never needed.

[SydneyRover]

BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.

Heres some light reading for those that doubt what Brexit will bring:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-800-worse-off-households-food-poverty-inflation-a8064286.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/poverty-britain-joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-theresa-may-social-mobility-commission-million-a8089491.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/04/britain-society-inequality-trade-brexit-is-not-the-way

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/brexiters-vote-poverty-even-worse-than-austerity

https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/02/news/economy/child-poverty-brexit-uk/index.html

https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2016/brexit-britain-poor-man-western-europe

FAKE NEWS the lot of it Sydney - none of it comes from The Mail/ Express/Sun.

I apologise for my omissions:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5782504/money-key-brexit-trade-deal/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/794812/Brexit-news-trade-expert-UK-better-off-leaving-EU-joining-NAFTA

https://www.vox.com/2016/6/21/11974600/brexit-eu-euro-disaster

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3808814/Britain-better-EU-Brexit-says-Germany-business-chief.html

Feel the warm.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Petrol rationing books were issued during the 1973 oil crisis.

They were never needed.

No, the price of petrol just went up about 35-40% instead.

[Boomstick]

Hoola / BST,
Prior to brexit I used to enjoy your postings and found them balance, amusing and interesting.
Im now sick to f**king death of your incessant patronising holier than though b*llocks on this and so many other threads where it gets dragged off topic into a brexit direction.

You’re assumption that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a numpty/fool or other derogatory term is counter productive as has been pointed out by others.
I am strongly behind the leave decision for a number of reasons that make sense to me but which I don’t feel the need to post for people like you to try and pick through and give your spin.

I suspect that there are a great deal more like me who feel the same.

We’re all entitled to our opinions but we don’t have to explain them, defend them or debate them if we don’t want to - so lay off the patronising attitude to anyone ( even those you’ve never met or spoken to) who doesn’t agree with your views.

Rant over and no desire to enter into debate.
 

hear hear !

[Boomstick]

Stockton

For the record, I have a lot of time for anyone who enters into a discussion on a topic. I’m sorry if presenting facts comes across as holier than thou, but there you go.

I could show you a dozen times that I’ve set out facts to address BB’s comment about the lack of a recession after the vote. I’ve done it respectfull and genuinely and never once had anything back but wisecracks.

Then you have Boomstick. Who regularly uses silly insukts in his posts. And yes I DID go over the top in responding to him. And I apologised publicly. And then he comes back using the same silly insults.

Those attitudes are ok? But me setting out facts is patronising b*llocks? Strange Times we’re living in.

What insults ? the only one who throws them is you.
you even apologised for it, but then continue with your bullying tactics from the safety of your keyboard .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Boomstick

You use the term “Remoaner” in pretty much every post. It’s petty, snide, childish and indicates that you’ve no intention of engaging in discussion.

I’ve pointed this out numerous occasions. You’ve never changed. You (rightly) complained about me using an insult. I apologised immediately and stopped.

Draw your own conclusions.

[SydneyRover]

A few years ago I went to have a look at Gibralta for the first time and spent a day mooching around, I think of that day when I think of Britain post Brexit, sort of back to the sixties really, bad food and bad service.

[Pancho Regan]

A few years ago I went to have a look at Gibralta for the first time and spent a day mooching around, I think of that day when I think of Britain post Brexit, sort of back to the sixties really, bad food and bad service.

Surely I won't have to lose my local Italian Restaurant...?!

Bloody Cameron should never have had this referendum!

 

[hoolahoop]

BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.

Heres some light reading for those that doubt what Brexit will bring:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-800-worse-off-households-food-poverty-inflation-a8064286.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/poverty-britain-joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-theresa-may-social-mobility-commission-million-a8089491.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/04/britain-society-inequality-trade-brexit-is-not-the-way

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/brexiters-vote-poverty-even-worse-than-austerity

https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/02/news/economy/child-poverty-brexit-uk/index.html

https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2016/brexit-britain-poor-man-western-europe

FAKE NEWS the lot of it Sydney - none of it comes from The Mail/ Express/Sun.

I apologise for my omissions:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5782504/money-key-brexit-trade-deal/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/794812/Brexit-news-trade-expert-UK-better-off-leaving-EU-joining-NAFTA

https://www.vox.com/2016/6/21/11974600/brexit-eu-euro-disaster

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3808814/Britain-better-EU-Brexit-says-Germany-business-chief.html

Feel the warm.

Haha great patronising- fake news at its  very best . Soon be bigger than the Eu . Lol

[hoolahoop]

A few years ago I went to have a look at Gibralta for the first time and spent a day mooching around, I think of that day when I think of Britain post Brexit, sort of back to the sixties really, bad food and bad service.

Surely I won't have to lose my local Italian Restaurant...?!

Bloody Cameron should never have had this referendum!

 

For me it would be my local tapas restaurant.

[bobjimwilly]

Every single conversation I've had with anyone who voted for Brexit, the issue always came back to immigration. No matter how anyone tries to sugar coat it, that was the hot-topic at the time and that is exactly what Farage et al played off. Some of the concerns I've heard were legitimate; a friend of mine was dealing with a lot of trouble, in his council job, caused by the Romanian immigrants in Donny, and he saw the damage the minority were doing do the existing communities, so when remain politicians failed to address these issues, or denied they were happening, it made people like him very mad.

Obviously since the referendum we've heard how this sort of immigration will continue from existing EU countries even after Brexit, so my friend in this particular example was actually lied to. And those pesky politicians get away with it!

[Bentley Bullet]

I agree with most of that but is it Farage's fault that it will continue after Brexit? Didn't he want an Australian style immigrant selection process?