Leaving the EU (I never use the B word if I can avoid it)

[Glyn_Wigley]

So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.

junker, the biggest piss head alcoholic we never elected.
the man's a liability for the eu, 😂

I'd say May is a bigger liability for the UK...and she's sober!

She was a shit Home Secretary. Why anybody thought she'd be any better as a PM is beyond me.

[BillyStubbsTears]

In the kingdom of the serially incompetent Tories, the woman who answers every criticism with dog-whistle racist lines is queen.

And before anyone starts mithering about accusations of racism, go and do some research on the things she did and said as Home Secretary. And then ask yourself why she managed to become the darling of the party when she was self evidently unable to find her way past a wooden soundbite.

[Axholme Lion]

So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.

I presume from this this that you are hppy to believe the lies you read in the Dail Mail?  You clearly have no understanding of how the EU works.

It works like Nazi Germany.

[RedJ]

What's that, the Daily Mail?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Axholm

I’m going to risk sounding condescending here but you are talking b*llocks. Frighteningly ignorant b*llocks.

The underpinning principle of what has become the EU was always precisely to prevent anything like Nazi Germany ever rising again.

Europe (of which we are an integral part) has always been a powder keg. Because there are so many different nations and groups and philosophies living in such a small space. It’s a more dangerous region than any other one on earth.

Between AD 111 and 1945, an army crossed the Rhine to do battle on average every 37 years. As of 1945, we British had been involved in 4 major continental wars in the previous 130 years.

Those wars were disastrous for Europe and for Britain. They killed millions and sucked up untold amounts of wealth and potential.

Nazi German was the culmination of that history.

And the EEC/EC/EU was designed to make a repeat of that impossible. It was designed to emphasise the commonality. To demonstrate that working and trading together would make us all better and richer than bombing and shooting each other.

As part of that, the EU has required member states to be functioning democracies. It won’t accept dictatorships. And look at how many EU members are now solid democracies, having had experience of dictatorship within living memory.

Spain
Portugal
Italy
Germany
Greece
Bulgaria
Romania
Estonia
Lithuania
Latvia
Poland
Czechia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Croatia
Austria

Hungary - more or less although Orban is treading a fine line with fascist authoritarianism.

The EU has done an incredible job of securing peace, prosperity, democracy and collaboration in Europe. We’re now in the 73rd year of peace on the Continent (ignoring the Yugoslavian Civil War, when they weren’t in the EU). That has never happened in recorded history.

Comparing the EU and Nazi Germany is f**king stupid.

[MachoMadness]

What's that, the Daily Mail?

The Mail did have some interesting views on Nazis at the time, to be fair.

[Glyn_Wigley]

So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.

I presume from this this that you are hppy to believe the lies you read in the Dail Mail?  You clearly have no understanding of how the EU works.

It works like Nazi Germany.

The EU extremination camps must be very well hidden then. Perhaps I should enquire about them with my local EU Gauleiter?

[MachoMadness]

If anything this just proves how sinister Vote Leave's campaigning was. It spreads these lies to people - the EU is just unelected bureaucrats, they're going to let Turkey join and we can't stop it, we have some dictator telling us what to do all the time - and it gets normal blokes like Axholme to compare it to Nazi Germany. Thing is, he's not the first person I've seen say that.

If you can't get non-political folk to turn out to vote for you, simply make stuff up until they have no choice. To me, that's not democracy. That's how dictatorships start, as we're seeing in our friends across the pond.

[Glyn_Wigley]

If anything this just proves how sinister Vote Leave's campaigning was. It spreads these lies to people - the EU is just unelected bureaucrats, they're going to let Turkey join and we can't stop it, we have some dictator telling us what to do all the time - and it gets normal blokes like Axholme to compare it to Nazi Germany. Thing is, he's not the first person I've seen say that.

If you can't get non-political folk to turn out to vote for you, simply make stuff up until they have no choice. To me, that's not democracy. That's how dictatorships start, as we're seeing in our friends across the pond.

Funny that the EU gets compared to Nazi Germany when Vote Leave et al have nicked their campaign strategy from Josef Goebbels.

[hoolahoop]

So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.

It saddens me that not only you but millions like you peddle lies unwittingly and believe with every sinew in your bodies such ridiculous tripe . Some can no longer seperate fact from fiction, responsible from the irresponsible, news from fake news, friend from foe, national interest from self interest etc.

Is it impossible even at this late hour, to even ask you to look at what you must by now think of as anti- Brexit posts with a neutral eye or have we lost you altogether ? Just ask yourself ' what if some of the Remain posters on here might just have a point ' , What if they may be right about the past , present or future ? Not on everything but perhaps anything is that too much to ask ?

[bpoolrover]

Hoola you might be right in many ways, the way you answer people and the way you speak to people if they have a different opinion to you is enough to vote the opposite to you, I have met many a person off this messsge board and many others and never had a problem

[Bentley Bullet]

The whole point of my contribution to this topic is to point out that the country has voted and the majority of voters wanted to leave the EU.

From a personal point of view, I very nearly decided to vote leave because of the attitude of the remainers, not least some of them on this forum. I simply didn't like being on their side. I dislike being on their side even more now, since their attitude has become unacceptably appalling, not only to leave voters but to remainers (like me) who accept the result of the vote and want to go forward as a united nation.

Since the vote, claims ranging from lies to irregularities have risen suggesting the vote was distorted, resulting in some wanting a re-vote. My point is, because of the patronising and rude conduct of those who have given the loudest voice for the remainers, I reckon their behaviour throughout would have a detrimental effect on the chances of a reverse decision.

I've said all along that my personal opinion is irrelevant, but what is relevant is what seems to be a common reason why the leavers don't appear to be budging from their stance. Contrary to them defecting towards remain, it's more a case of remainers now wanting to leave.

[wilts rover]

That might be your personal opinion BB but it certainly isn't born out by national polling data. They are still fairly even on whether the decision to leave was right or wrong and which way they would vote in a new referendum. With a small shift to the decision being wrong and voting to remain if anything.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/uk-poll-results/

[Boomstick]

In the kingdom of the serially incompetent Tories, the woman who answers every criticism with dog-whistle racist lines is queen.

And before anyone starts mithering about accusations of racism, go and do some research on the things she did and said as Home Secretary. And then ask yourself why she managed to become the darling of the party when she was self evidently unable to find her way past a wooden soundbite.

ah the last line of someone backed into a corner and losing an argument.
but ....but....but....but.... racist !!!

get a grip lad.

go on then, what did she say exactly that was racist?

[SydneyRover]

So it appears to OK for various people to ignore the truth, ignore detailed predictions by economists, ignore those that post these articles, ignore the facts and predictions that Britain would suffer economically with Brexit even though some of it has already kicked in, ignore all the evidence that the proponents of Brexit have have been dishonest in almost every way, ignore the facts that those in the lower socioeconomic parts of society will and do suffer most, ignore the gains and benefits that the EU has given to regional Britain and ignore the facts on the lack of transparency or planning around the vote or what to do after it and the total incompetence of a government fighting with itself rather than sorting out its own mess all of which has been set out in the previous 70 odd pages but has been ridiculed and scorned and then claim that their feeling have been hurt because those presenting the facts get fed up with the juvenile attitude of those that still appear to think the world is flat, give me a break.

Maybe this is where you should be looking:

https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/

[BillyStubbsTears]

What exactly would be the point of telling you Boomstick? You’ve ignored every other bit of evidence you’ve been shown.

[Boomstick]

What exactly would be the point of telling you Boomstick? You’ve ignored every other bit of evidence you’ve been shown.

is that because she said nothing remotely racist?
still waiting lad

[BillyStubbsTears]

I’ve a list as long as your arm and a lot longer than your attention. But I’m not interested in convincing you because you don’t engage with facts.

So I’m playing it your way. My opinion is that Theresa May has spent a career endearing herself to the Tory Party membership by engaging in dog whistle racism. That’s my opinion. I don’t have to justify it to you.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

There’s no excuse for patronising, rude behaviour. I’ve done it and I wish I hadn’t. In my case, it comes not from a wish to belittle someone but from frustration when people refuse to engage with the facts in a discussion.

I appreciate that what you see as rude and patronising attitudes is annoying and upsetting. You do know though that it’s not limited to one side of a debate. Have a think how many times people have been accused of being “liberal snowflakes” for taking offence at jibes.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, I don't consider you as one of the main culprits and wasn't directing my comments at you.

 I do find rude and patronising attitudes annoying, but not particularly upsetting because I expect them from certain people. If I was to be upset about anything, it would be because I post positive posts with the hope of a positive Brexit outcome, and it is THAT that appears to annoy all you doom-mongers. It's as if you really want me to be wrong, at all costs, because me being wrong would mean that you were right.

[Padge_DRFC]

Can I change my mind? The mainstream media has worried me there will be no food left and I will have the clap tomorrow because of a no deal Brexit.

Didn’t think it would come to this thank god we have the army on standby. This country will starve to death.

The mainstream media were on about fake news this week.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Padge.

The mainstream media are simply reporting what the Govt is doing.

The Govt is making plans for massive stockpiling of non-perishable food and medicine. And the Govt has chosen not to give the promised weekly updates on the provisions they are making because they are concerned that it would cause panic.

You can tell yourself that everything in the papers that you don’t like is fake if you want. Doesn’t mean some of it isn’t true.

[hoolahoop]

BST, I don't consider you as one of the main culprits and wasn't directing my comments at you.

 I do find rude and patronising attitudes annoying, but not particularly upsetting because I expect them from certain people. If I was to be upset about anything, it would be because I post positive posts with the hope of a positive Brexit outcome, and it is THAT that appears to annoy all you doom-mongers. It's as if you really want me to be wrong, at all costs, because me being wrong would mean that you were right.

No but your comments were most likely directed at me . " Patronising " perhaps but once you've engaged in a debate you too have been dismissive and have constantly rarely if ever conceeded any point however much the weight of evidence against your argument. You stated from the outset that you voted to Remain but have constantly argued the case for Leave. Personally I can't see any post where you have actually agreed with a  Remoaner.

If I have patronised you or any other poster then I too like Billy earlier apologise but don't for one minute think that through any of these threads it's been one way traffic. Posters on here have bothered to construct long posts only for them to be dismissed out of hand , often with a single sentence. It's frustrating debating in such a manner  - for what it's worth I am pulling an earlier post because I shouldn't have posted it .
Incidentally your posts have not always been positive.

[hoolahoop]

BB you said :-

 " Since the vote, claims ranging from lies to irregularities have risen suggesting the vote was distorted, resulting in some wanting a re-vote. My point is, because of the patronising and rude conduct of those who have given the loudest voice for the remainers, I reckon their behaviour throughout would have a detrimental effect on the chances of a reverse decision."

Can't you see why many Remainers are furious , as someone who voted Remain I thought you might have understood ? Some including me are still seething at this illegitimate Referendum .....

[Axholme Lion]

The EU engineered a regime change in Ukraine which has led to the current problems.

The first Pan-European army of modern times was the Waffen SS.

[hoolahoop]

Hoola you might be right in many ways, the way you answer people and the way you speak to people if they have a different opinion to you is enough to vote the opposite to you, I have met many a person off this messsge board and many others and never had a problem

You have a point and I'm sorry but for me currently this is very personal perhaps I should start to look at the evidence you provide me with more closely.
Perhaps I get pissed off with being called unpatriotic, a Remoaner ( do you know how condescending that title is ? ), a snowflake even at one point an enemy of the people . Moaned at , cajoled to get behind a project that I distrusted from the start . I was right to distrust now the facts are coming out but not one of you brave Brexiteers has agreed with any sorry  point raised by posters on here . Not once has someone said " do you know what they were wrong to whip up racial tensions ", " steal and manipulate millions of fb accounts with blatant lies " etc etc . NOT ONCE !

Now when I look through these pages I see many a poster agreeing that work needed to be done with immigration , plenty of criticism of Merkel the EU structure etc yet - we are accused of being intransigent, unable to recognise the weaknesses of the EU  but EVERY Remoaner has done just that all the way through.
What's more they have done that in depth providing evidence, attachments for you to consider not agree with necessarily but just to consider .

Now if you can honestly say you have argued your case giving due care to at least look at the dozens possibly 100s of pieces of data and argued your case in the same depth then and only then would you have a point - have you ?   

[hoolahoop]

The EU engineered a regime change in Ukraine which has led to the current problems.

The first Pan-European army of modern times was the Waffen SS.

Where did you get that idea from and what exactly are you suggesting here - that Brussels ousted Putin's puppet . Where on earth did you get that from ?
Only the USA would ever dare to confront Russia in that way surely ?

[hoolahoop]

Can I change my mind? The mainstream media has worried me there will be no food left and I will have the clap tomorrow because of a no deal Brexit.

Didn’t think it would come to this thank god we have the army on standby. This country will starve to death.

The mainstream media were on about fake news this week.

Of course you can if there is a 2nd Referendum Padge, good luck with the knobrot haha

I wonder where that story came from was it the Government itself ?

[Boomstick]

I’ve a list as long as your arm and a lot longer than your attention. But I’m not interested in convincing you because you don’t engage with facts.

So I’m playing it your way. My opinion is that Theresa May has spent a career endearing herself to the Tory Party membership by engaging in dog whistle racism. That’s my opinion. I don’t have to justify it to you.

seems it's you that refuses to deal with facts.
still waiting for this list of things that may said, that was racist.

tick tock .....

[MachoMadness]

I’ve a list as long as your arm and a lot longer than your attention. But I’m not interested in convincing you because you don’t engage with facts.

So I’m playing it your way. My opinion is that Theresa May has spent a career endearing herself to the Tory Party membership by engaging in dog whistle racism. That’s my opinion. I don’t have to justify it to you.

seems it's you that refuses to deal with facts.
still waiting for this list of things that may said, that was racist.

tick tock .....

Sending "go home" vans around areas that had a high number of ethnic minorities based on f**k all.
Deporting black British citizens to the Caribbean to meet deportation targets. Many people don't know that the Windrush actually made several stops on its way to Britain and many passengers were white. Relatively few of these white folk got deported under May's instruction though, which is why people think the Windrush was just full of people from the Caribbean.
Told lies about an immigrant who couldn't be deported because they had a cat, which she repeated even though she knew it to be false.

This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure a decent Google will throw up a few more.