BREAKING: Corbyn to table no-confidence motion in PM

[bobjimwilly]

She didn't seem happy after JC announced this 

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1074726533766504448

[RedJ]

Reported that if she doesn't grant time for that then he's going to table a vote of no confidence in the government.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sweet Jesus what a f**k up.

The DUP have said they're not supporting this move, but voting for May, The ERG won't vote for it and will vote for May.

May is on the ropes and Corbyn offers her an out. A way to have the confidence of Parliament expressed in her.

And even if it DOES pass, it means nothing.

I do sometimes wonder if he is a f**king plant, whose aim is to balls up every promising Labour situation.

[Donnywolf]

So 117 Tory MPs register a vote of no confidence in May as their Leader (including of course as their PM) and lose and are miffed as hell
Then a few days later they will presumably NOT register a Vote of no confidence in her as their PM !
Its not as if it is a Vote of Confidence in them and their Party which they would of course vote against

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

So 117 Tory MPs register a vote of no confidence in May as their Leader (including of course as their PM) and lose and are miffed as hell
Then a few days later they will presumably NOT register a Vote of no confidence in her as their PM !
Its not as if it is a Vote of Confidence in them and their Party which they would of course vote against

My enemies enemy is my friend.....

They fear an election most likely and given they want Brexit, their only choice now is to baxk May.

[wing commander]

It's a cheap stunt destined to fail,which he knew before he tabled it and proves he's not fit to be even considered as a pm of this country.. An embarrassment to his party and if you want to know why in last weeks figures, May's public popularity is the highest since the election.. That's him right there...

[selby]

  Time to sack the lot, have a general election for a completely new parliament, with every sitting MP banned from standing for election again for 20 years. And the same with the members of the House of Lords.
   The people of this country have only given them one job to do and they have shown that they are completely incapable of doing it.

[albie]

Clever tactics from Corbyn.

This is a precursor move, to raise a VoC in May.
It will lead on to a vote of confidence in the government under the terms of the Fixed Term Parliament Act.

Pressure on the Tory dissenters to hold a consistent position.

[MachoMadness]

Clever tactics from Corbyn.

This is a precursor move, to raise a VoC in May.
It will lead on to a vote of confidence in the government under the terms of the Fixed Term Parliament Act.

Pressure on the Tory dissenters to hold a consistent position.

That's how I read it as well. When the Tories give her a vote of confidence AGAIN and then she comes back and her deal fails to get through Parliament AGAIN, Corbyn will be in a good position.

Or they don't entertain the vote at all and May looks scared.

I could have it all wrong and he could fumble it, in which case he'll look a reight tit, but as of now it looks like a canny move.

[Filo]

Tories again showing their true colours, putting party before Country, how can 117 MP’s vote to savk her as their party leader, i.e. not fit for purpose, but then vote for her to lead the Country, f**king hypocrites the lot of em

[BillyStubbsTears]

But the Tory rebels will NOT vote against May when it means strengthening Labour.

It's nothing to do with their consistency. It's about their priorities.

You call a vote of confidence only when you know you have a chance to wound or kill off the opponent. This one will do nothing but strengthen her. Absolutely stupid.

[wilts rover]

So the question is:

Does May have the confidence to hold the vote of confidence in herself or if she doesn't can the HofC have confidence in her?

[Filo]

But the Tory rebels will NOT vote against May when it means strengthening Labour.

It's nothing to do with their consistency. It's about their priorities.

You call a vote of confidence only when you know you have a chance to wound or kill off the opponent. This one will do nothing but strengthen her. Absolutely stupid.

So in effect their priorities are the best interests of their party, and not the best interests of the Country

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yep.

As was predictable from two years ago.

An example. I have a very intelligent friend who is having his mid-life crisis as a Momentum member. He regularly berates me for not supporting the Brexit path that leads to a Labour Govt.

He wants an ERG Hard Brexit because it will wreak economic carnage and make the Tories unelectable for a generation. Then we can go marching off to a Socialist Utopia.

I've tried to gently, and not-so-gently point out that a Socialist Government inheriting an economy that has shrunk by 10% is not my preferred outcome. For which, I'm accused of being a comfortable, middle class Blairite.

It's enough to make you weep.

[wing commander]

This makes me so mad.. Whether your a Tory or labour supporter the position we are in is beyond Party politics, it's what's best for the Country... It's people like the above who make Labour unelectable and fail to hold the government to account..
    How anybody can claim these are clever tactics from Corbyn is beyond me, in one stroke he has reunited unionists, and hard line brexiteers behind a pm who was on her arse..You only go down the no confidence route when you know the outcome.. Turkeys don't vote for Xmas.. I'm a rare thing on here, a Tory supporter.. And I'm grateful that Corbyn is across the bench, I really am...

[albie]

It is a no risk option for Corbyn.

Labour knew that May would react as she has. The inconsistency in the positions of the DUP and ERG have been fully demonstrated. They were always going to support the government position in public.

Sometimes an action is not directed to a winning position at the outset. It is part of a longer game.

If you can't see that, then maybe you have not seen the whole picture in the political game!

[Herbert Anchovy]

Corbyn is testing the water for a more significant no confidence vote against the government. He knows that he must win any no confidence vote against the government because, if they were to lose, the Labour Party are obliged to ‘look into’ other options including a second referendum, which is the last thing he wants.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie

I'm afraid that is the line that comes from starting from an assumption of Corbynite Infallibility.

The real issue here is that Corbyn's inner circle (by which I mean Corbyn, Milne and McCluskey) fundamentally want us to leave the EU. Every words they had ever uttered on the subject up to 2016, and every word since then screams that out. Throughout their careers they have castigated the EU as a rich man's club that acts as a bulwark against socialism. Their foreign policy is based on two principles:
1) Western Capitalism the Great Economic Problem in the world. The EU is a key stone in the wall of Western Capitalism. Therefore the EU is on the wrong side and should be opposed.
2) American foreign policy is the great threat to peace in the world. Russia is the biggest counterbalance to that. Therefore Russia must be supported and enemies of Russia must be opposed. The EU strongly acts as a barrier against Russian foreign policy being wielded in Europe. Therefore the EU is on the wrong side and should be opposed.


Go and read ANYTHING that any of those three ever wrote or said on those topics, other than when they had to mumble support for the EU during the referendum campaign. That background is why Corbyn was on Westminster Green at dawn on the morning after the referendum screaming tha we had to trigger Art. 50 immediately. Getting us out of the EU is one of his two key foreign policy dreams. The other one being getting us out of NATO.

You HAVE to start from that foundation if you're going to understand what is going on at the moment. Cut through the rest of the bullshit and start there.

Corbyn does not want a second referendum. The overwhelming number of his MPs, party members and Labour party voters DO want a second referendum. He was boxed into a corner at Conference in September, when Conference passed a resolution demanding that, if the party were unable to force an early General Election, they would campaign for a Second Referendum.

If Corbyn tables a motion of no confidence in the GOVERNMENT, and loses, he has blown the chance of forcing a GE. So his party would have to campaign for a second referendum. That is an outcome that Corbyn cannot countenance. So he will not push for a NC vote against the Government, because he knows he will lose it.

So, the vote against May is a bit of political theatre. Appear to be taking up the cudgels against the Govt, when in reality, you are avoiding the real fight, because you know what the result of that would be.

I am sick to the back teeth of well-meaning left-leaning people being bewitched by Corbyn and not looking at what the deeper drives are here. You are being deceived and played.

[BillyStubbsTears]

HA.

Thank you. You summed up my ramble in 2 lines.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Corbyn might have misjudged the situation, but then you can rely on May to score an own goal by refusing to allow time for it to happen and get it over with - which makes it look as if she's just as big a coward about this vote as the Brexit one.

[albie]

BST,

So to be clear, are you saying Labour should move a motion of no confidence in the government, or not?

If the answer is no, because it would not succeed, why do you assume a new referendum in June/July 2019 would deliver a different outcome to no deal under the May default fallback?

A new referendum needs an Act of Parliament. There are not the numbers in favour to deliver that, at the moment. After an Act was passed, the minimum time to organise a ref is 22 weeks or so. Well past the current March deadline to exit.

The idea that I am being "deceived and played" is a convenient fiction from your standpoint. I start from an understanding of the numbers constraint alone.

You might be interested in the analysis from Vernon Bogdanor in the Guardian;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/18/theresa-may-not-safe-conservative-party-mutiny

Please do not get lost inside your own assumptions. Always best to triangulate them in a reality check!

[Donnywolf]

Corbyn might have misjudged the situation, but then you can rely on May to score an own goal by refusing to allow time for it to happen and get it over with - which makes it look as if she's just as big a coward about this vote as the Brexit one.

Hope she does just that !

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's not cowardice from May.

She'd upping the ante.

She's saying to Corbyn, "No, you're not having your political theatre, pointless vote of NC in ME. So, the ball's back in your court. The next move of a strong and principled Leader of the Opposition is to call a vote of NC in the GOVERNMENT. Ready when you are."

But he won't. Because of what I and HA say above.

His ideological obsession means that he is now boxed in and he has no alternative strategies. And May goes on...

I suspect John O'Donnell is spitting fire in private. He is the brains at the top of the Labour party. Corbyn is a 20 year old student activist in a pensioner's body. O'Donnell has not hidden his annoyance over the summer with Corbyn's team's infantile foreign policy blunders hindering Labour while O'Donnell was winning the economic argument hands down. O'Donnell is a supporter of a second referendum. Because, as Shadow Chancellor, he knows that there's no point Labour winning power after crashing out of the EU.

I'm beginning to wonder whether Corbyn will survive the next three months. His policy on THE most important issue facing us is directly opposed to that of the man who was his closest Shadow Cabinet colleague, and against what the overwhelming majority of the Labour members want. It's not a good situation.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Corbyn might have misjudged the situation, but then you can rely on May to score an own goal by refusing to allow time for it to happen and get it over with - which makes it look as if she's just as big a coward about this vote as the Brexit one.

But now the Tories are gathering round her. She's playing for them basically saying ok we don't like your deal but given it's all we can get we will take that over Corbyn.  They've gone from slating her to the story now being Corbyn's vote going nowhere. Now he gets the criticsm for not taking it further.  An easy line to use against him from.May when he accuses her of being scared of a vote she will just say some say that of  him. Cue pressure back on him.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Corbyn might have misjudged the situation, but then you can rely on May to score an own goal by refusing to allow time for it to happen and get it over with - which makes it look as if she's just as big a coward about this vote as the Brexit one.

But now the Tories are gathering round her. She's playing for them basically saying ok we don't like your deal but given it's all we can get we will take that over Corbyn.  They've gone from slating her to the story now being Corbyn's vote going nowhere. Now he gets the criticsm for not taking it further.  An easy line to use against him from.May when he accuses her of being scared of a vote she will just say some say that of  him. Cue pressure back on him.

She's not letting them gather round here though - if that's what she wants she ought to let the vote go ahead and they'll all be voting for her and showing unity in grand style. But she isn't doing that, and despite what BST says, her squashing Corbyn's motion hot on the heels of her stifling one Commons vote already isn't going to make her look strong to the public. It just makes her look shiftier than ever.

[Donnywolf]

Speaking as an ordinary voter it is a terrible situation all round. Instead of getting on running the Country the Government has been tied down trying to solve the divisive matter of a Referendum that was too divisive

The shame is for the Country itself - and it appears nobody is winning

I would hope that there is a Peoples Vote on the Deal May has evolved - or a No Deal - and if you dont like those 2 would you like to just Remain ? Its not a second Referendum as such but is a way ofsomving what Parliament does not seem to be able to !

Then whichever way it goes I want people to remember what a s**t strom this is and continues to be and how THEY have NOT been served by any of the mainstream Parties (maybe SNP have served Scotland and DUP have served NI - but Im no expert). How the MPs behave like Kids you would expel rom Class etc etc and maybe how they eventually went against the wishes of 17.4 Million Voters

Then I would love a complete new Electoral system whichever way we eventually roll with Leaving or Remaining in the EU. One that is fairer and one that is common practice in almost every modern Western democracy

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glyn

It doesn't really matter what she looks like now. There isn't going to be a GE anytime soon. And she won't lead the Tories into the next GE anyway.

So the whole NC in HER vote is utterly pointless. It's the classice example of:

1) Something must be done.
2) The NC in May vote is something.
3) Therefore the NC Vote in may must be done.

Corbyn is stalling and avoiding the real issue. Which is that there is only one way out of this shit storrm and that is a second referendum.

The Tories and DUP will not vote to bring down the Govt. So there's not going to be a GE. That option is out.
There is no majority in Parliament for ANY deal. Not May's. Not Starmer's. Not the ERG's. So those options are out.
There is no majority in Parliament to allow a No Deal outcome. So that option is out.

Second Ref is the only way out of the impasse. But Corbyn doesn't want that, so he's deflecting and stalling.

A f**king curse on both him and May. Two f**king useless third raters when we need clear-headed visionaries.

[drfchound]

Reading the posts by our resident political analysts on here I am not surprised that our politicians are also at each other’s throats.

No disrespect intended to the likes of Albie, Glyn,Wilts or BST et al but each of you has a strong opinion, run out a lot of “facts” and many of those facts are discredited by one of the others.

[GazLaz]

The second referendum vote (if it was to get voted through Parliament) is such an easy way to solve this pantomime. They are very reluctant to go down that route though presumably because they think it’s a threat to democracy perhaps.

[drfchound]

The second referendum vote (if it was to get voted through Parliament) is such an easy way to solve this pantomime. They are very reluctant to go down that route though presumably because they think it’s a threat to democracy perhaps.

A second referendum would be my preference too Gaz.
If however we got another leave outcome would we be in a better place than we are today though?