John Marquis

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, there comes a time when things become beyond a joke.

[Chris Black come back]

Never gets injured. As in, when do you ever recall him limping? Given how he plays, this is surreal.

[Filo]

BST, there comes a time when things become beyond a joke.

You’re a secret admirer are n’t you 😀

[GazLaz]

You're much more fun when you cover your unpleasantness in a thin veneer of humour BB.

My point is that American Football is an entirely structured game, where players at each play have specific and very well planned roles to perform. That lends itself to judging players' performances by specific metrics.

Football is far more fluid than that. Listing "assists" is a crude bolting on of the metric approach. It's mildly interesting but doesn't really tell you that much.

Marquis here is a perfect example. What conclusion would someone reach, judging him on the "official" assist figures?

Assist stats have been brought in by fantasy football games. They are a complete load of b*llocks.

[dickos1]

You get an assist for being fouled in the penalty area

[Bentley Bullet]

So Copps' assists stats (for instance) are a complete load of b*llocks?

[IDM]

The team mates, management and supporters can recognise Copps’ contribution without needing to quantify the assists.

Take the debate over May for example - you can tell by watching him play that he is making a good contribution to the team performance but you don’t need aspects of his play quantifying to make such a judgement..

Look at Kane.. has been outstanding but what are his stats??  Do we need stats to analyse him or do we just enjoy watching this lad play?

[GazLaz]

So Copps' assists stats (for instance) are a complete load of b*llocks?

They are poor over the years. If you are using that as a metric of judgement he’s not got enough in his career compared to his ability.

[Bentley Bullet]

Stats are used to analyse performance. They are useful to people who want to refer to performances of players when they haven't been in attendance at games. Goals are an important stat, as are goal scorers. Goal assists are also important stats as they would otherwise be overlooked and players wouldn't get credit for from a wider audience if they weren't published.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So. I'll ask again. If you go by those figures, what conclusion do you come to about Marquis's contribution to the team?

[Bentley Bullet]

I'd read them as Marquis having no assists! But I'd also read that Marquis is the top scorer for us and has been a revelation since we signed him. A fantastic signing, I'd say.

It seems to me that you're suggesting goal assist stats should be scrapped because people might think that they are detrimental to Marquis' contribution to the team!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Aye alright BB. Looks like 2019 is going to be another one of those years where you spend more time arguing with what you want folk to be saying, rather than engaging with what they actually do say.

[Bentley Bullet]

Go on then Billy, why are goal assist stats such a bad thing, other than being detrimental to Marquis' contribution to Rovers?

[Bentley Bullet]

Aye alright BB. Looks like 2019 is going to be another one of those years where you spend more time arguing with what you want folk to be saying, rather than engaging with what they actually do say.

I just re-read that. How dare YOU of all people accuse ME of that? Your description of me sums you up to perfection!

[BillyStubbsTears]

They're not a bad thing per se. They are just not very helpful in appraising a game which doesn't easily lend itself to simple metrics. As I said about 2 hours ago.

The construction of football goals is a much more complex process than, say, the construction of American Football touchdowns. The contributions that lead to football goals cannot really be assessed by totting up who made the final pass to the goalscorer. So, assist tallies are, at the very best, highly limited sets of data.

I used Marquis as an example of that argument. It's rather bizarre that you interpret that as some sort of drawing up of battle lines, but fill your boots if that's what you want to do.

[jonnydog]

Sadly, I fear the biggest battle is ensuring we bat off any bids for him this month and keep him focused and try to ensure his head isn’t turned by the big boys. Last thing we need is his concentration dipping or him getting the arse on (if you get what I mean!!)

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
Accepted. I do occasionally misconstrue what someone is saying in here.

I think I also tend to apologise when I do that, although maybe I don't always get that right.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sadly, I fear the biggest battle is ensuring we bat off any bids for him this month and keep him focused and try to ensure his head isn’t turned by the big boys. Last thing we need is his concentration dipping or him getting the arse on (if you get what I mean!!)

I do fear that we may be seeing the last of him. He's been too good for too long to not be on the radar of at least mid-lower Championship sides.

Anyone who was in a Championship relegation scrap would be daft not to look at him. He'd either do you the job of keeping you up, or go a long way towards getting you back up next year.

[dickos1]

I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and layes it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist

[Bentley Bullet]

Here's hoping the stat of 'no assists' put them off.

[dickos1]

Here's hoping the stat of 'no assists' put them off.

I’m sure the people who make those decisions will realise that 0 assists is a load of nonsense

[Bentley Bullet]

I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and lates it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist

In case you're referring to me, I don't make the decisions on what is an assist, the statisticians do that!

[RedJ]

I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and layes it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist

It might exist to us, and rightly so, but not to the people who compile the stats. Like a shot on target doesn't count if it's blocked, another ridiculous thing imo.

[dickos1]

I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and lates it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist

In case you're referring to me, I don't make the decisions on what is an assist, the statisticians do that!

Exactly that’s why the people that matter won’t take any notice of something wrongly attempting to make football so black and white

[dickos1]

I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and layes it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist

It might exist to us, and rightly so, but not to the people who compile the stats. Like a shot on target doesn't count if it's blocked, another ridiculous thing imo.

Stats like that though will only be used by people compiling the scores on a fantasy football game though.
You get assist points for being fouled for a penalty but don’t if a defender gets a touch on your pull back

[IDM]

How do you measure statistically the enjoyment of watching the close ball control of players like Copps, Kane, and Wilks especially yesterday.?

There is much more to the quality of the play, and the entertainment, things which get you on the edge of your seat that cannot be measured..

You can probably count the number of tackles a player makes, but how do you quantify empirically that great tackle by Blair.?

[RedJ]

Whack an applausometer in every ground, dur.

[Bentley Bullet]

Here's hoping the stat of 'no assists' put them off.

I’m sure the people who make those decisions will realise that 0 assists is a load of nonsense

It seems BST's wrong in his comment about me being much more fun when I use a thin veneer of humour.

[IDM]

Whack an applausometer in every ground, dur.

A clapometer.?  I think you can scratch that idea.!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's hoping the stat of 'no assists' put them off.

I’m sure the people who make those decisions will realise that 0 assists is a load of nonsense

It seems BST's wrong in his comment about me being much more fun when I use a thin veneer of humour.

That's better.