2008 & now

[Branton Rover]

Not wanting to sound downbeat, on the contrary if we manage a playoff position at the end of this season that would arguably rank higher than getting there in 2008 when we had a fantastic side.
Having said that other than maybe Butler dislodging Sam Hird - I can’t think of many from the current crop of players getting into our ‘08 team - Herbie for Greeny is a possibility, nobody else

[Branton Rover]

Ps Marquis for Jason Price

[BillyStubbsTears]

Team that started the play-off semi 1st leg at Southend

Sullivan
O'Connor
Bird
Mills
Roberts
Green
Stock
Green
Coppinger
Guy
Price
Heffernan.

I'd take any of our current four centre halves before Hird.

Kane over Guy.

Marquis and Wilks over Price and Heffernan.

So that 4 places where, in my opinion, the players we currently have are head and shoulders better. I'd be struggling to make any more cases, but that's the difference between a squad that will just squeak 6th place and one that ought to have nailed 2nd place.

[Branton Rover]

I make that 12 players 2x Green & an infiltrator called Bird

[Branton Rover]

2nd leg we were much stronger Wellens coming in for one of the Greens & Hayter for suspended Heffs

[BillyStubbsTears]

I make that 12 players 2x Green & an infiltrator called Bird

Aye, well, it's the holiday weekend so my standards are down.

The changes for the second leg wouldn't change my take. I'd still have Marquis and Wilks above Price and Hayter.

[Branton Rover]

Disagree I’d take Hayter over Wilks every time - Hayter was a very good, highly intelligent footballer who dropped into holes to find pockets of space & his consistency as a goal scorer speaks for itself - I guess it’s all about opinions

[Bentley Bullet]

Hayter would be an absolute definite starter and McCammon was no mug either.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilks and Marquis would score 60 goals between them with Stock, Wellens, Green and Coppinger behind them.

[sedwardsdrfc]

That our midfield was so good then is the only reason Whiteman wouldn't get in he's a top league 1 player really.

The 2008 team probably didn't score as many as we are doing now but it was at the right times which obviously counts for so much more. So many times we've struggled to create against decent teams this season but been clinical against the lesser teams. Back then we were the opposite we created so much and were always missing a striker. Marquis would score a ridiculous number in that team even if he missed twice as many sitters as he does now!

[Bentley Bullet]

SOD had a completely different game plan to McCann. SOD's team had a far more cautious approach and the stats proved it.

Only 3 teams scored more goals than Rovers that season and only 2 teams conceded fewer, resulting in a +24 goal difference.

This season, 4 teams have scored more goals, but 10 teams have conceded fewer, resulting in a +17 goal difference.

To say Marquis and Wilks would have scored more goals in that team with that set up than players of the quality of Hayter and Heffernan is doubtful. To say they would have got 60 goals between them is pie in the sky.

[Branton Rover]

We never surrendered possession then like we do now - probably down to SOD’s philosophy & the quality of midfield all approaching their peak 

[sedwardsdrfc]

SOD had a completely different game plan to McCann. SOD's team had a far more cautious approach and the stats proved it.

Only 3 teams scored more goals than Rovers that season and only 2 teams conceded fewer, resulting in a +24 goal difference.

This season, 4 teams have scored more goals, but 10 teams have conceded fewer, resulting in a +17 goal difference.

To say Marquis and Wilks would have scored more goals in that team with that set up than players of the quality of Hayter and Heffernan is doubtful. To say they would have got 60 goals between them is pie in the sky.

Didn't realise we were that prolific then but it was a while ago now! What i was trying to get at was if our goals this season had come slower and steadier rather than in bursts we'd probably be in the playoffs with a lot more breathing space. But most teams will say that so i'm talking rubbish tbf!

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I think you do Hird a bit of a disservice. He was a good partner for Mills. Agree though. The sum of the parts were better than what we have now. Yes, less direct but more capable of doing something with the ball!

[BillyStubbsTears]

We weren't that prolific. It was a very low-scoring division that year. We scored 65 goals that season.

O'Driscoll didn't deliberately choose forwards who put in an intelligent shift over and above those who scored goals. That was evidenced by him signing Sharp, who was primarily a striker rather than someone who would win physical duels or drop deep to help out the midfield.

Had O'Driscoll had players who were both physically imposing and excellent goalscorers, I have no doubt that he would have worked a team around them.

I've no wish to disparage Hayter and Heffernan. They were excellent players. But the fact is that Heffernan, for all his goalscoring prowess, wasn't a physically imposing player. And Hayter, for all his graft and intelligence and bravery, wasn't a first rate goalscorer (he was a 1 in 3-4 player).

Marquis is a1-in-2ish goalscorer and in the best 2-3 line leaders of the past 50 years. Wilks is a 1-in-3 goalscorer as a 19 year old, and has the pace and physicality that we regularly used to pine for in O'Driscoll's sides.

Which is why I'd prefer the two of them to Hayter and Heffernan. They would offer dimensions up front that H&H couldn't possibly have managed. And if 60 goals between them is a bit of a stretch, I'd expect them to get 20+ each, which H&H never came close to under O'Driscoll.

A midfield as dominant as that 07/08 one, with the aggression, pace and predatory instinct of Marquis and Wilks in front of them would be mouth-watering.

[mrfrostsdad]

I think you do Hird a bit of a disservice. He was a good partner for Mills. Agree though. The sum of the parts were better than what we have now. Yes, less direct but more capable of doing something with the ball!

I'm with you on that one Barry. I thought Hird was pretty decent with us.
The 2008 team was far better than the present day one. We had the best midfield in the league by far (and probably the best the following season in the Championship) and I'd be stretched to change anyone for the any of the current crop. JJ Price's work rate was fantastic ( remember Wembley?) Maybe the odd player we have now is individually better then then, but it was the way they played together as a team.
I'd feel a lot happier taking the 2008 team into the play offs then what we have now, and despite the fact the top five clubs are all better than us, the play offs are a total one off and you just never know what might happen

[Chris Black come back]

Key point being we played in the 2008 final a side we had beaten away in the league already. Of the play off four currently we have not beaten any of them in the league this season, home or away.

[colincramb]

We are some distance behind the top teams this year. Having said that if we make 6th there isn’t any real pressure on us and we can just go and attack it. The other sides all expected to go up before the season started - that pressure could count

[deebee]

We beat Luton, drew with Barnsley twice, beat Charlton in the cup and was robbed for the home game in the league so drew and drew with Portsmouth. Only Sunderland won both home and away games so I think we will hold our own in any play off matches.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Like I say, comparisons between now and then are utterly pointless.

In 07/08, a play-off place was the bare minimum target. This year it's a huge bonus.

Enjoy it. Stop trying to find the negatives in the current situation.

[drfchound]

We beat Luton, drew with Barnsley twice, beat Charlton in the cup and was robbed for the home game in the league so drew and drew with Portsmouth. Only Sunderland won both home and away games so I think we will hold our own in any play off matches.

A sensible point of view.
Glass half full.

[ravenrover]

We beat Luton, drew with Barnsley twice, beat Charlton in the cup and was robbed for the home game in the league so drew and drew with Portsmouth. Only Sunderland won both home and away games so I think we will hold our own in any play off matches.

Made me smile when the commentator on Friday went on about us having to improve against the top 5, only being able to beat lower clubs, these were my exact thoughts 

[Chris Black come back]

We beat Luton, drew with Barnsley twice, beat Charlton in the cup and was robbed for the home game in the league so drew and drew with Portsmouth. Only Sunderland won both home and away games so I think we will hold our own in any play off matches.

This is all true and we will certainly hold our own I am sure. It is also true that of the teams likely to be in the play offs, we have not beaten any of them in the league. In 2007/8 we had beaten both Southend United and Leeds United in the league.

[RedJ]

We beat Luton, drew with Barnsley twice, beat Charlton in the cup and was robbed for the home game in the league so drew and drew with Portsmouth. Only Sunderland won both home and away games so I think we will hold our own in any play off matches.

This is all true and we will certainly hold our own I am sure. It is also true that of the teams likely to be in the play offs, we have not beaten any of them in the league. In 2007/8 we had beaten both Southend United and Leeds United in the league.

Aye but it's irrelevant. All of what happened in 2008 is totally irrelevant to this season. There's only one constant from that season to this and that's the man who wears number 26.

Completely different times as a club and as a division.

We don't even need to win away if we can get the job mostly done at home.

[BillyStubbsTears]

We beat Luton, drew with Barnsley twice, beat Charlton in the cup and was robbed for the home game in the league so drew and drew with Portsmouth. Only Sunderland won both home and away games so I think we will hold our own in any play off matches.

This is all true and we will certainly hold our own I am sure. It is also true that of the teams likely to be in the play offs, we have not beaten any of them in the league. In 2007/8 we had beaten both Southend United and Leeds United in the league.

Yes, but we'd also lost against every other side in the play-offs that year. Our record was P6 W3 D0 L3.

This year, when Sunderland clinch 2nd place, our record against the others in the play-offs will have been W6 W0 D5 L1. One of those draws should have been a win, but for an awful offside call and in the others we more than held our own. It's completely different circumstances to 2008. But, our record against the others who will be in the play-offs is similar overall.

And of course, you DON'T have to win a match to win the play-offs. As we proved in 2003.

[Chris Black come back]

To get through the play offs we have to win at least one game (unless some bizarre away goal rule is in place). We have not beaten any of the likely play off teams in the league this season. Am sure we could - but we go into the play offs not having done so this season. Not one victory.

[BillyStubbsTears]

CBCB

Think back to 2003. You DON'T have to win a match to win the play-offs.

And as I say, but for one of the very worst decisions of the season, we HAD beaten Charlton. It's perverse to suggest that we haven't shown ourselves capable of beating another play-off side.

[Chris Black come back]

Not said anything about being capable - that is something different. I have given you the facts buddy - can’t dispute those! Get the mower out and give the lawn a trim. Nice day and we are not playing.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And I'm simply pointing out that the facts you've given are meaningless without the context. And, as I say, you're wrong anyway in insisting that you have to win game(s) to win the play-offs.

[Chris Black come back]

And I'm simply pointing out that the facts you've given are meaningless without the context. And, as I say, you're wrong anyway in insisting that you have to win game(s) to win the play-offs.

Yes - winning on penalties is still winning. It is through ability, psychology or good luck beating the other side. We have not done so this season in the league with the teams likely to be in contention. Neither, you, I, Grant McCann or the Dalai Lama can change that I am afraid. Anything can still happen in the play offs though so we all look forward to them with great expectation.