A time for change?

[SydneyRover]

''Another Etonian leader? Time for Labour to challenge the might of private schools''

''Robert Verkaik is the author of Posh Boys: How the English Public Schools Ruin Britain''

''Not since Harold Wilson’s government set up a commission to deal with the “public school problem” has the Palace of Westminster hosted an event that could bring about the dismantling of Britain’s educational apartheid. But MPs this week held a debate on a programme for radical reform of a two-tier system that provides an elite education for a tiny minority of the population, and divides Britain into winners and losers''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/14/etonian-leader-labour-private-schools-boris-johnson-corbyn

[bpoolrover]

What does it matter which school/collage university someone went to as long as the best person for the job gets it?

[SydneyRover]

What does it matter which school/collage university someone went to as long as the best person for the job gets it?

Thanks for replying BP, it's a shame you don't appear to have read the link ......................''But MPs this week held a debate on a programme for radical reform of a two-tier system that provides an elite education for a tiny minority of the population, and divides Britain into winners and losers''

''Today, all the great institutions of state – government, judiciary and military – are run by a privileged few who have been sent to fee-paying schools. The figures speak for themselves. Only 7% of children attend a private school, yet privately educated pupils represent 74 % of senior judges, 71% of high-ranking officers in the armed forces, about half of all top diplomats and members of the House of Lords and, of course, 45% of Conservative MPs''

Is this how you like things being run in the UK with a privileged elite appointing 'their own' to the best jobs without merit screwing over those that smarter but were educated at the local high school?

This is how the country ended up in the shit with decisions made in the bullingdon club, agreements between friends.

But if this is what you like vote conservative and suck it up.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Is the answer to drag down those elite institutions or to focus more on improving the non elite areas?  There are many flaws in education and getting the standard schools up to scratch is a big challenge.

Is it all about funding?  Partly yes and that's an issue to address but how do you create that money - we'll get in to economics here and that's not the point of the thread.

Equally will there not always be an elite and those that are better?  The status is there it surely can't be undone now.

[Muttley]

Is it all about funding?  Partly yes and that's an issue to address but how do you create that money - we'll get in to economics here and that's not the point of the thread.

For a start they could strip private schools of the charitable status they currently enjoy which means they benefit from approx £100 million tax rebates each year.

[SydneyRover]

Is it all about funding?  Partly yes and that's an issue to address but how do you create that money - we'll get in to economics here and that's not the point of the thread.

For a start they could strip private schools of the charitable status they currently enjoy which means they benefit from approx £100 million tax rebates each year.

Agreed as there is an education provided by the state those that choose not to use it should pay for their own education.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/16/private-schools-charitable-status-strip-benefits

The main problem of course is those in the so called upper classes have over many many decades ensconced themselves in high office enabling the promotion of their fellows to the detriment of the rest of the population. Appointment to all positions of government and public companies should be by merit not connections.

[bpoolrover]

I did read it, what I don’t like is when people have a go at someone for what school or college ect that they went to, you say 45 percent of tories unless I’m mistaken it was around 18 percent of labour and 20 odd percent of Lib Dem’s to, but what I stand by what I said before the best person should get the job irrelevant of what school they went to

[Glyn_Wigley]

I did read it, what I don’t like is when people have a go at someone for what school or college ect that they went to, you say 45 percent of tories unless I’m mistaken it was around 18 percent of labour and 20 odd percent of Lib Dem’s to, but what I stand by what I said before the best person should get the job irrelevant of what school they went to

So who do you think was the last public school educated PM that was the best person for the job?

[wilts rover]

I am happy to be corrected here but are we not the only country in the world that has this two tier system?

[Glyn_Wigley]

I am happy to be corrected here but are we not the only country in the world that has this two tier system?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_school

[wilts rover]

I am happy to be corrected here but are we not the only country in the world that has this two tier system?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_school

That will be a no then, thanks Glyn.

It's interesting to compare that list to the secondary age performance rankings.
http://factsmaps.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-math-science-reading/

[bpoolrover]

I did read it, what I don’t like is when people have a go at someone for what school or college ect that they went to, you say 45 percent of tories unless I’m mistaken it was around 18 percent of labour and 20 odd percent of Lib Dem’s to, but what I stand by what I said before the best person should get the job irrelevant of what school they went to

So who do you think was the last public school educated PM that was the best person for the job?

I’ve no idea who is best for any job as I don’t interview anyone, why should it matter where they were educated anyway glyn?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool.

It's very simple.

1) Whilever the richest in the country pay for their kids to be privately educated, there's no incentive for them to pay the taxes needed to make ALL our schools better.

2) Someone who achieves slightly lower educational qualifications at a Dearne Valley Comp than someone who went to Eton or Charterhouse is almost certainly a fundamentally more intelligent and resourceful person. So, as an employer, it matters very much to me where people went to school.

[SydneyRover]

I did read it, what I don’t like is when people have a go at someone for what school or college ect that they went to, you say 45 percent of tories unless I’m mistaken it was around 18 percent of labour and 20 odd percent of Lib Dem’s to, but what I stand by what I said before the best person should get the job irrelevant of what school they went to

BP, If people want to send their kids to private schools that fine by me also but having this charitable status costs the rest of the country over 500m. Is this fair? that the local state school maybe short of teachers, equipment and building maintenance and those that send their kids to state schools are paying for private schools.

''Theresa May pledged in the Conservative 2017 manifesto to force independent schools to sponsor a state school or risk losing their tax breaks (she later quietly dropped it). These are not insignificant sums. Between 2017-22, private schools will get tax rebates totalling £522m as a result of their status as charities''

Your last point about getting a job on merit is all well and good on paper but it is not happening is it? and I'll post the facts again:

''Today, all the great institutions of state – government, judiciary and military – are run by a privileged few who have been sent to fee-paying schools. The figures speak for themselves. Only 7% of children attend a private school, yet privately educated pupils represent 74 % of senior judges, 71% of high-ranking officers in the armed forces, about half of all top diplomats and members of the House of Lords and, of course, 45% of Conservative MPs''

It's clearly jobs for mates, no?

[bpoolrover]

And of course nearly 20 percent labour mps, in life it’s clearly jobs for mates in every way of life it always has been always will be, but it does not prove that because the went to a private school ect that they didn’t deserve that job

[SydneyRover]

And of course nearly 20 percent labour mps, in life it’s clearly jobs for mates in every way of life it always has been always will be, but it does not prove that because the went to a private school ect that they didn’t deserve that job

So what does it show BP? and are you happy to pay for them out of your hard earned?

 ''Only 7% of children attend a private school, yet privately educated pupils represent 74 % of senior judges, 71% of high-ranking officers in the armed forces, about half of all top diplomats and members of the House of Lords and, of course, 45% of Conservative MPs''

[bpoolrover]

If there the best people yes, can you show evidence that there not so we can discuss please

[SydneyRover]

If there the best people yes, can you show evidence that there not so we can discuss please

That's hardly an answer BP, the stats show that those tutored at private schools are disproportionately represented in high office it would be statistically improbable/impossible for all those people to be the best if all students were considered. I'll let those with a better understanding of statistics to give you a better answer.
It's all done with the secret handshake and our money, the fact that they keep on making stupid decisions should tell you they are not the best, the fact that they look after their own should tell you we are getting a dud deal.

[bpoolrover]

That happens no matter what school or collage you go to it happens in every form of life, if Corbyn gets in power he will give cabinet positions to who he thinks will stay loyal and close to him not necessarily who is best for the position will you kick a stink up about that?

[Glyn_Wigley]

I did read it, what I don’t like is when people have a go at someone for what school or college ect that they went to, you say 45 percent of tories unless I’m mistaken it was around 18 percent of labour and 20 odd percent of Lib Dem’s to, but what I stand by what I said before the best person should get the job irrelevant of what school they went to

So who do you think was the last public school educated PM that was the best person for the job?

I’ve no idea who is best for any job as I don’t interview anyone, why should it matter where they were educated anyway glyn?

So you've no hindsight to know who was a good PM or not either. Quelle suprise.

[bpoolrover]

I could guess at who would be a good pm as you could but that’s all it would be as I don’t know them personally, I’m sure they all have good and bad points and only time will tell if they will be any good or not

[Glyn_Wigley]

I could guess at who would be a good pm as you could but that’s all it would be as I don’t know them personally, I’m sure they all have good and bad points and only time will tell if they will be any good or not

I never asked you about who you thought would be a good PM. I asked you who you thought was the last good PM who went to a public school.

[bpoolrover]

Sorry Glynn I read your question wrong, no I can’t  give you a answer as im 40 years old and in the time I’ve bothered looking at politics and don’t think there have been any stand out pms

[SydneyRover]

That happens no matter what school or collage you go to it happens in every form of life, if Corbyn gets in power he will give cabinet positions to who he thinks will stay loyal and close to him not necessarily who is best for the position will you kick a stink up about that?

The article/debate is not about who is in power or in government it's about those from private schools selecting their chums to similar positions. The conservative party is a whole different matter look at the the yougov poll and BST post titled: ''This is simply astonishing'' reply number 3593 on the brexit deal thread, which I won't repost here.

[bpoolrover]

I get that Sydney my point is do you no think if Corbyn gets in power he won’t select his chums to sit in the cabinet? Every job it happens everyway of life

[Glyn_Wigley]

I get that Sydney my point is do you no think if Corbyn gets in power he won’t select his chums to sit in the cabinet? Every job it happens everyway of life

Would they be his school chums?

[SydneyRover]

I get that Sydney my point is do you no think if Corbyn gets in power he won’t select his chums to sit in the cabinet? Every job it happens everyway of life

That's a political situation BP forget that for a moment while we talk about out in the real world, I'm happy to discuss politics on another thread of your time and choosing.

A job is advertised internally-externally and defying probability more of those that attended private schools get the top jobs that put them in influential positions, is there something about that you don't understand BP or you do understand and are happy that all those who are born supposedly with equal rights in this country getting screwed over by a coterie of self appointed elites?

It's a personal choice BP if you are ok with the situation as described in the article I posted you're quite entitled to say so, I'm just trying to get an understanding of how you and others get to make up you minds on various matters that appear to me to grossly unequal to the general population.

[bpoolrover]

I get that Sydney my point is do you no think if Corbyn gets in power he won’t select his chums to sit in the cabinet? Every job it happens everyway of life

Would they be his school chums?

I can’t answer that as I don’t follow who his school chums are

[bobjimwilly]

I thought it would be bloody obvious why we shouldn't keep voting for candidates who went to a highly exclusive private school, only grew up with friends and family from the top 1%, and had no real-life experience or understanding of what it means to be working class, or even middle class....

And when it comes to selecting government ministers, surely those ministers should be qualified or experienced in some way that relates to their ministerial position?
i.e. not like this guy: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/06/george-osborne-right-europe-wrong-economy

[bpoolrover]

I agree whoever is best qualified should get the job no matter what school or collage if any they went to, you could argue should millionaires be pm as do they grasp what is real life