Marquis

[DearneValleyRover]

John Marquis is our player and has it stands will start on Saturday so let’s celebrate the fact that one of the best strikers in our history will be pulling on the hoops on again

[dickos1]

So it’s a fact then that this value goes down the closer you get to the end of said players contract

I believe so, because it is actually the current contract that a new club is buying the player out of.  The longer the contract the more you a depriving the current club of that player for.

Exactly the point I’ve been trying to make,

It’s nonsensical to suggest the price is the same now as it was 8 months ago.

But why would it have changed? Player depreciation isn't a straight declining line. There are certain times when it will dip, that's for sure, but I fail to see how he's worth so much less at this point than he was in January.

As many have mentioned, the longer a players contract the more expensive he is to buy.  That’s not just a point of view it’s a fact of football

[Not Now Kato]

So it’s a fact then that this value goes down the closer you get to the end of said players contract

I believe so, because it is actually the current contract that a new club is buying the player out of.  The longer the contract the more you a depriving the current club of that player for.

Exactly the point I’ve been trying to make,

It’s nonsensical to suggest the price is the same now as it was 8 months ago.

The price is, what the board say it is; irrespective of the time of year - and irrespective of fans viewpoints.  If a club wants him then they can either pay the price now or wait to the end of his contract in the hope that they may get him for free, at which point they risk competing with other clubs for his services.  It all depends on how much a club wants a particular player and how much risk they are prepared to take in getting him.

[silent majority]

So it’s a fact then that this value goes down the closer you get to the end of said players contract

I believe so, because it is actually the current contract that a new club is buying the player out of.  The longer the contract the more you a depriving the current club of that player for.

Exactly the point I’ve been trying to make,

It’s nonsensical to suggest the price is the same now as it was 8 months ago.

But why would it have changed? Player depreciation isn't a straight declining line. There are certain times when it will dip, that's for sure, but I fail to see how he's worth so much less at this point than he was in January.

As many have mentioned, the longer a players contract the more expensively he is to buy.  That’s not just a point of view it’s a fact of football

You'll have to show me where this 'fact' is as it's completely new on me. You're not confusing this with the amortisation costs are you?

[steve@dcfd]

John Marquis is our player and has it stands will start on Saturday so let’s celebrate the fact that one of the best strikers in our history will be pulling on the hoops on again

Well said DVR some on here think league 1 strikers who can score 25 goals a season grow on trees.

[Metalmicky]

If Forest (or anyone) offered £1.5m then I would be snatching their hands off - his price is only going to go downwards - and if he is forced to stay and see out his contract then we won't have the same player...

[bobbymax]

If Forest (or anyone) offered £1.5m then I would be snatching their hands off - his price is only going to go downwards - and if he is forced to stay and see out his contract then we won't have the same player...

I must have missed the statement about the club forcing him to stay! Can somebody post a link?

[dknward2]

If John wants to leave so badly as everyone is saying then he should put in a transfer request as for now he is our player.

now on Saturday a few things could happen

1. He scores a hat trick value goes up championship clubs get itchy feet and bid for him 2 million as they only have until Thursday before there window shuts

2. He has a poor game as we know he can do (FYI all players do) scouts watching him go not impressed leave it till January unless someone comes in for him then match that bid maybe.

3. Gets injured out for 6 months ala billy sharp and we get some young striker from premier league side who either flys or flops and we spend all season kicking off about that Steve Evans team bunch of bullies or saying we should have sold him for some made up number to some made up team.

For me if he plays on Saturday we need to sign his name loud and proud and show him what he means to us.

20 goal season strikers at any level are rare as rocking horse shit, and we have one so why are people so willing to get rid of him if he played for any other league one team we would be begging the board to go get him.

[Metalmicky]

If Forest (or anyone) offered £1.5m then I would be snatching their hands off - his price is only going to go downwards - and if he is forced to stay and see out his contract then we won't have the same player...

I must have missed the statement about the club forcing him to stay! Can somebody post a link?

It's been said by several within the club that he wants to play at a higher level - I was therefore surmising that if we turn away Championship clubs wanting his services - and thereby force him to stay and see out his contract - he may not be quite the same player. 

[Metalmicky]

20 goal season strikers at any level are rare as rocking horse shit, and we have one so why are people so willing to get rid of him if he played for any other league one team we would be begging the board to go get him.

See my answer above.  I would add that 1.5 million is a hell of a lot of money to us and we wouldn't want the player to go for free in 10 months... However, I would add, if he were to sign a contract extension I would be more than glad to see him stay...

[dickos1]

So it’s a fact then that this value goes down the closer you get to the end of said players contract

I believe so, because it is actually the current contract that a new club is buying the player out of.  The longer the contract the more you a depriving the current club of that player for.

Exactly the point I’ve been trying to make,

It’s nonsensical to suggest the price is the same now as it was 8 months ago.

But why would it have changed? Player depreciation isn't a straight declining line. There are certain times when it will dip, that's for sure, but I fail to see how he's worth so much less at this point than he was in January.

As many have mentioned, the longer a players contract the more expensively he is to buy.  That’s not just a point of view it’s a fact of football

You'll have to show me where this 'fact' is as it's completely new on me. You're not confusing this with the amortisation costs are you?

Are you saying you aren’t aware that in football as a players contract gets closer to expiring then that players value reduces alongside this?

I felt naiths explanation summed it up perfectly

[PDX_Rover]

If he’s here Saturday, give him some big love. He’s been fantastic for us. No question.

[silent majority]

So it’s a fact then that this value goes down the closer you get to the end of said players contract

I believe so, because it is actually the current contract that a new club is buying the player out of.  The longer the contract the more you a depriving the current club of that player for.

Exactly the point I’ve been trying to make,

It’s nonsensical to suggest the price is the same now as it was 8 months ago.

But why would it have changed? Player depreciation isn't a straight declining line. There are certain times when it will dip, that's for sure, but I fail to see how he's worth so much less at this point than he was in January.

As many have mentioned, the longer a players contract the more expensively he is to buy.  That’s not just a point of view it’s a fact of football

You'll have to show me where this 'fact' is as it's completely new on me. You're not confusing this with the amortisation costs are you?

Are you saying you aren’t aware that in football as a players contract gets closer to expiring then that players value reduces alongside this?

I felt naiths explanation summed it up perfectly

But naith's explanation isn't correct. The value of a player isn't based on the length of his contract with his current club, his value depends on what the selling club and the buying club agree is the correct price. Of course if there's little of his contract left then that does strengthen the buying clubs position, but so do many other factors.

As I said before, the decline in a players value is not a straight line. However, his value on the books of the selling club is, but that's a tax issue and not a valuation.

[dknward2]

It's all about supply and demand we have the supply of a 20 goal striker and other clubs fans demand a 20 goal season striker

[dickos1]

I understand
But from a buyers point of view you can offer 2 million for a player who has 18 months on his contract but then there’s no way you would offer the same when there’s only 9 months left because you can get him on a free In those 9 months.
And the selling club also knows this, so not many clubs would allow there most valuable player to leave for free when they could get 2 million for him 12-18 months earlier.

We had a Barnsley fan on here the other week saying that they offer players new contracts when they have 18 months left and if they don’t sign then they sell them so they can’t lose them for free

[RedJ]

I understand
But from a buyers point of view you can offer 2 million for a player who has 18 months on his contract but then there’s no way you would offer the same when there’s only 9 months left because you can get him on a free In those 9 months.
And the selling club also knows this, so not many clubs would allow there most valuable player to leave for free when they could get 2 million for him 12-18 months earlier.

We had a Barnsley fan on here the other week saying that they offer players new contracts when they have 18 months left and if they don’t sign then they sell them so they can’t lose them for free

You will pay £2m with 9 months left on his contract if you want him badly enough.

[dickos1]

If you look around at the transfers though it never happens.
Players don’t get sold for their true value when their contract only has 6, 9 months left on it

I think you can even start negotiating signing a player on a free when he has 6 months left

[Dare to dream!]

I understand
But from a buyers point of view you can offer 2 million for a player who has 18 months on his contract but then there’s no way you would offer the same when there’s only 9 months left because you can get him on a free In those 9 months.
And the selling club also knows this, so not many clubs would allow there most valuable player to leave for free when they could get 2 million for him 12-18 months earlier.

We had a Barnsley fan on here the other week saying that they offer players new contracts when they have 18 months left and if they don’t sign then they sell them so they can’t lose them for free

You will pay £2m with 9 months left on his contract if you want him badly enough.

This is the problem and why we still have JM. No club want him badly enough. They either want him because they think they can get him on the cheap or he is a secondary target. E.g. Sunderland would have signed but they obviously seen more in Mcnulty.

I feel sorry for John in a way because he deserves a chance to prove himslef in the Championship but isn't desireable for whatever reason.

[silent majority]

I understand
But from a buyers point of view you can offer 2 million for a player who has 18 months on his contract but then there’s no way you would offer the same when there’s only 9 months left because you can get him on a free In those 9 months.
And the selling club also knows this, so not many clubs would allow there most valuable player to leave for free when they could get 2 million for him 12-18 months earlier.

We had a Barnsley fan on here the other week saying that they offer players new contracts when they have 18 months left and if they don’t sign then they sell them so they can’t lose them for free

Yes you would. It depends on other factors, which is the point I've made, not just the length of his contract. Today JM has a value, which is exactly the same value as in January, that hasn't declined. But it will do if we get to the January window and nothings been changed.

And Barnsley can only sell players if there's a buyer for them. If not then it doesn't matter one jot.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The length left is a factor, but not the only factor. Far many more things involved.  I suspect he will leave but for the right fee.

[Campsall rover]

I understand
But from a buyers point of view you can offer 2 million for a player who has 18 months on his contract but then there’s no way you would offer the same when there’s only 9 months left because you can get him on a free In those 9 months.
And the selling club also knows this, so not many clubs would allow there most valuable player to leave for free when they could get 2 million for him 12-18 months earlier.

We had a Barnsley fan on here the other week saying that they offer players new contracts when they have 18 months left and if they don’t sign then they sell them so they can’t lose them for free

You will pay £2m with 9 months left on his contract if you want him badly enough.

This is the problem and why we still have JM. No club want him badly enough. They either want him because they think they can get him on the cheap or he is a secondary target. E.g. Sunderland would have signed but they obviously seen more in Mcnulty.

I feel sorry for John in a way because he deserves a chance to prove himslef in the Championship but isn't desireable for whatever reason.

He will get that chance in the Championship with us next season if he stays.
If he goes to a Championship club now it would more than likely be one fighting relegation and he could well be playing League 1 football again next season.
My advice JM is stay with us as i think DM is going to build something very special at DRFC

[Bentley Bullet]

I understand
But from a buyers point of view you can offer 2 million for a player who has 18 months on his contract but then there’s no way you would offer the same when there’s only 9 months left because you can get him on a free In those 9 months.
And the selling club also knows this, so not many clubs would allow there most valuable player to leave for free when they could get 2 million for him 12-18 months earlier.

We had a Barnsley fan on here the other week saying that they offer players new contracts when they have 18 months left and if they don’t sign then they sell them so they can’t lose them for free

You will pay £2m with 9 months left on his contract if you want him badly enough.

This is the problem and why we still have JM. No club want him badly enough. They either want him because they think they can get him on the cheap or he is a secondary target. E.g. Sunderland would have signed but they obviously seen more in Mcnulty.

I feel sorry for John in a way because he deserves a chance to prove himslef in the Championship but isn't desireable for whatever reason.

It's Rovers I feel sorry for. If he'd have scored that bloody penalty at Charlton he might have been in the Championship - With us!

[dickos1]

As great as that would be I can understand marquis point of view.
He’s 27 now and deserves a crack at the next level, it was a great signing for us getting him on a free. So he’ll feel he doesn’t owe us much now and nothing is guaranteed in football and he would most likely be stuck in league one again next season

[dknward2]

We may get him to sign a contract extension but with a clause of say 2.5 million in Jan transfer window if he stays all season and we go up he may want to stay with a new year left on his contract we then upgrade his contract I.e 3 year twice as much money bonus for staying up etc etc

[Campsall rover]

As great as that would be I can understand marquis point of view.
He’s 27 now and deserves a crack at the next level, it was a great signing for us getting him on a free. So he’ll feel he doesn’t owe us much now and nothing is guaranteed in football and he would most likely be stuck in league one again next season

Why do you think we will not get promoted? So many people with a negative mind set imo.
Yes i know some would say it it’s being realistic but unless you believe you are going to get promoted then in all likelihood it won’t happen.
I am pretty sure, no not pretty sure, certain that DM will be drilling that promotion target down the throats of all the players. Belief Belief Belief.

[drfchound]

I understand
But from a buyers point of view you can offer 2 million for a player who has 18 months on his contract but then there’s no way you would offer the same when there’s only 9 months left because you can get him on a free In those 9 months.
And the selling club also knows this, so not many clubs would allow there most valuable player to leave for free when they could get 2 million for him 12-18 months earlier.

We had a Barnsley fan on here the other week saying that they offer players new contracts when they have 18 months left and if they don’t sign then they sell them so they can’t lose them for free

Yes you would. It depends on other factors, which is the point I've made, not just the length of his contract. Today JM has a value, which is exactly the same value as in January, that hasn't declined. But it will do if we get to the January window and nothings been changed.

And Barnsley can only sell players if there's a buyer for them. If not then it doesn't matter one jot.

SM, long shot here, but are you able to tell us what his valued to the club was back in January.

[dknward2]

Think the club would have accepted the 2 million that Sunderland bid but as they left it so late we wouldn't have time to replace him

[dickos1]

As great as that would be I can understand marquis point of view.
He’s 27 now and deserves a crack at the next level, it was a great signing for us getting him on a free. So he’ll feel he doesn’t owe us much now and nothing is guaranteed in football and he would most likely be stuck in league one again next season

Why do you think we will not get promoted? So many people with a negative mind set imo.
Yes i know some would say it it’s being realistic but unless you believe you are going to get promoted then in all likelihood it won’t happen.
I am pretty sure, no not pretty sure, certain that DM will be drilling that promotion target down the throats of all the players. Belief Belief Belief.

I didn’t say I didn’t think we would, our expectations are the top 6 which as we know then becomes a lottery.
If someone guarantees him championship football now and a hefty wage rise then I can fully understand him wanting to accept it.

[silent majority]

I understand
But from a buyers point of view you can offer 2 million for a player who has 18 months on his contract but then there’s no way you would offer the same when there’s only 9 months left because you can get him on a free In those 9 months.
And the selling club also knows this, so not many clubs would allow there most valuable player to leave for free when they could get 2 million for him 12-18 months earlier.

We had a Barnsley fan on here the other week saying that they offer players new contracts when they have 18 months left and if they don’t sign then they sell them so they can’t lose them for free

Yes you would. It depends on other factors, which is the point I've made, not just the length of his contract. Today JM has a value, which is exactly the same value as in January, that hasn't declined. But it will do if we get to the January window and nothings been changed.

And Barnsley can only sell players if there's a buyer for them. If not then it doesn't matter one jot.

SM, long shot here, but are you able to tell us what his valued to the club was back in January.

Sorry mate, can't do. But the reported £2m from Sunderland wasn't accurate.

[DRNaith]

So it’s a fact then that this value goes down the closer you get to the end of said players contract

I believe so, because it is actually the current contract that a new club is buying the player out of.  The longer the contract the more you a depriving the current club of that player for.

Exactly the point I’ve been trying to make,

It’s nonsensical to suggest the price is the same now as it was 8 months ago.

But why would it have changed? Player depreciation isn't a straight declining line. There are certain times when it will dip, that's for sure, but I fail to see how he's worth so much less at this point than he was in January.

As many have mentioned, the longer a players contract the more expensively he is to buy.  That’s not just a point of view it’s a fact of football

You'll have to show me where this 'fact' is as it's completely new on me. You're not confusing this with the amortisation costs are you?

Are you saying you aren’t aware that in football as a players contract gets closer to expiring then that players value reduces alongside this?

I felt naiths explanation summed it up perfectly

But naith's explanation isn't correct. The value of a player isn't based on the length of his contract with his current club, his value depends on what the selling club and the buying club agree is the correct price. Of course if there's little of his contract left then that does strengthen the buying clubs position, but so do many other factors.

As I said before, the decline in a players value is not a straight line. However, his value on the books of the selling club is, but that's a tax issue and not a valuation.

The assumptions around what I have said isn't correct, that's right.

I do agree it's not a straight line valuation process though

However, another point is that I've seen it said that an offer of 2 million didn't reach the board's valuation in January (call that point 1), and now that offer still wouldn't meet the board's valuation (point 2). That doesn't mean that the board's valuation at both point one and two are the same, they both appear to be over 2 million...(If what has been said is correct)