Rugby

[Campsall rover]

Now I’m not up on the rules of this game, but how is that annoying little t**t Faf De Klerk not penalised for delaying putting the ball into the scrum everytime, he waits until the scrum is about to collapse and then puts it in and wins a penalty

Agreed. The laws of the game are barmy.

[IDM]

Possibly stretching the rules but in all honesty England didn’t play very well consistently throughout the game..

They only had one passage of play that got even close to scoring a try, resulting only in a penalty in the first half.

I said earlier in the thread that England at their best would be the better side, but England weee nowhere near their best.

Not good enough today.. no complaints with that result.

[Metalmicky]

SA played on the edge....right on the edge.  They were allowed to play there by the ref - and took full advantage of that.  They gave us no time or space and generally were the better team. Had we scored a try in the period before half time when we had 2 dozen phases then it all could have been different.  In general a great tournament, we froze a bit in the final, but eventually lost out to one of the best teams in the world........... no disgrace there.  Let's not forget we beat Australia and New Zealand en route and I for one am proud....

[SydneyRover]

Good wrap up MM

[drfchound]

Not quite.
I am a non rugby man so I will ask, did anyone else think that the ref was a bit biased towards SA?

[ravenrover]

No

[Colemans Left Hook]

i was amazed when the England bloke palmed the springbock kick to his mate whilst standing off the pitch
it seems the ball is not out of play when it is off the pitch in the air and

 you also seem to get an infinite amount of substitutions

i liked the bit where the bock got treated on the pitch as play continued

today their kicker was superb from what i saw, different day different result - but that is any sport

[BillyStubbsTears]

Had it finished now?

Have we been spared the upper-middle class spunkfest that we were subjected to in 2003.

I recall Jilly Cooper writing about what fine examples of English middle class  manhood the rugger bugger were, back then, and contrasting them against the working class oiks who played football.

And I bear grudges. So ever since then, I've wanted England's Rugby Union side to underperform. Just to spite class warriors like that f**king idiot.

[IDM]

Its not always like that though.

I went to school in Featherstone, in the heart of the typical industrial/mining community that was mostly rugby league.  We played union, and were quite good at it too..

But yes there is still sometimes that perception of
rugby union as a public school game rather than for the working man..

[SydneyRover]

Same for me went to a big ordinary school in Donny and played a bit of Union, never heard of RL till I started work.

[silent majority]

Not quite.
I am a non rugby man so I will ask, did anyone else think that the ref was a bit biased towards SA?

Not so much biased, more a case of having a defining opinion.

He made his mind up early on that the disruption at the scrummage was illegal play by England, and therefore kept giving SA penalties. SA then played to that every time.

[The Red Baron]

Its not always like that though.

I went to school in Featherstone, in the heart of the typical industrial/mining community that was mostly rugby league.  We played union, and were quite good at it too..

But yes there is still sometimes that perception of
rugby union as a public school game rather than for the working man..

Rugby Union is and has been played in the Public Schools, but it is worth remembering that a lot of those schools play (Association) Football. Schools like Malvern, Charterhouse, Repton, Shrewsbury and even Eton have strong football traditions.

The real backbone of Rugby Union used to be the Grammar Schools. Many Grammars dropped football in the aftermath of World War One. Professional football continued until at least 1915 and wasn't totally abandoned until conscription was introduced. This did not sit well with many of the middle-classes, who contrasted this with Rugby Union, which almost completely ceased at the outbreak of War. Over the years that followed this tended to sharpen the class distinctions between rugby and association (hence the likes of Jilly Cooper, the epitome of middle-class snobbery).

Nowadays Rugby Union is not played as much in state schools, so elite players are increasingly developed and recruited via independent schools, which have the resources to maintain rugby. Cricket has similar issues. It isn't always correct though to characterise Union players as posh boys. Some undoubtedly are, but many elite players have won sports scholarships to independent schools.

Incidentally, Frank Lampard was educated at an independent school, and I don't see many people calling him posh!

[IDM]

I have no idea why my school played RU and not RL.  We didn’t play football either, sadly.

[scawsby steve]

Had it finished now?

Have we been spared the upper-middle class spunkfest that we were subjected to in 2003.

I recall Jilly Cooper writing about what fine examples of English middle class  manhood the rugger bugger were, back then, and contrasting them against the working class oiks who played football.

And I bear grudges. So ever since then, I've wanted England's Rugby Union side to underperform. Just to spite class warriors like that f**king idiot.

You bear grudges? I would never have believed that in a million years.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Only to them that bring it on themselves. Like class warriors like Jilly Cooper who made it clear that she despised the working class.

I've never ever borne a grudge against anyone who thinks and considers and weighs evidence and approaches an issue without prejudice. Might disagree with their conclusion, but I'll appreciate it.

[Hounslowrover]

I went to Thorne Grammar and it was only rugby union, no football at any time. Thorne Secondary Modern played rugby league. I really resent that I missed seven years of competitive football just to please snobby attitudes in education.

[drfchound]

I went to Thorne Grammar and it was only rugby union, no football at any time. Thorne Secondary Modern played rugby league. I really resent that I missed seven years of competitive football just to please snobby attitudes in education.

I was at TGS too Hounslowrover.
I also had issues with RU interference with my football but had a quiet word with Reg Clayton and he understood my circumstances and “allowed” me to miss the school rugby matches on Saturdays.

[Hounslowrover]

I went to Thorne Grammar and it was only rugby union, no football at any time. Thorne Secondary Modern played rugby league. I really resent that I missed seven years of competitive football just to please snobby attitudes in education.

I was at TGS too Hounslowrover.
I also had issues with RU interference with my football but had a quiet word with Reg Clayton and he understood my circumstances and “allowed” me to miss the school rugby matches on Saturdays.

I played for the team until in the second year until my bother's name appeared instead of mine. I let him play and just kept quiet. We were in the same year as I transferred from the Secondary Modern a year late because of the 'kiddie fiddler' at Fieldside. I left TGS in 1967.

[selby]

  Not really a ruby fan and prefer Rugby League as a game to watch, which is faster and more skilful to me not being  that into the game. That game reminded me of the old Rugby League game which was known as stuff it up your jumper with massive forwards hammering each other. Very little running with the ball, or skill shown by the backs, much like the American versions of sport, games invented for big freaks of nature, played by big freaks of nature.

[Campsall rover]

Its not always like that though.

I went to school in Featherstone, in the heart of the typical industrial/mining community that was mostly rugby league.  We played union, and were quite good at it too..

But yes there is still sometimes that perception of
rugby union as a public school game rather than for the working man..

I used to watch Featherstone Rovers regularly in the late 70’s early 80’s IDM.

I think it is still perceived by many particularly in the South that Union is a middle class sport and League is a Northern working class sport.
Not as much of that snobbery around today as there was even 15 years ago.
Don’t think then the Union guys wanted any Northern teams in the Premiership. Now it’s different.
Just my perception of how it is. I may be wrong.

[scawsby steve]

Anyone who still thinks that RU is just a middle class game played by toffs should go down to Wheatley Hills RU Club off York Road, and have a few pints with the players after the game.

They'll soon think differently.

[IDM]

Its not always like that though.

I went to school in Featherstone, in the heart of the typical industrial/mining community that was mostly rugby league.  We played union, and were quite good at it too..

But yes there is still sometimes that perception of
rugby union as a public school game rather than for the working man..

I used to watch Featherstone Rovers regularly in the late 70’s early 80’s IDM.

I think it is still perceived by many particularly in the South that Union is a middle class sport and League is a Northern working class sport.
Not as much of that snobbery around today as there was even 15 years ago.
Don’t think then the Union guys wanted any Northern teams in the Premiership. Now it’s different.
Just my perception of how it is. I may be wrong.

It was a grim place in those days.. kind you I haven’t been back there for years and years.

Fev vs Cas was about as big at it got with sporting rivalries.!

I ever got to play RL, one of my team mates did play for Cas for a little while though I think..

[NickDRFC]

Had it finished now?

Have we been spared the upper-middle class spunkfest that we were subjected to in 2003.

I recall Jilly Cooper writing about what fine examples of English middle class  manhood the rugger bugger were, back then, and contrasting them against the working class oiks who played football.

And I bear grudges. So ever since then, I've wanted England's Rugby Union side to underperform. Just to spite class warriors like that f**king idiot.

So you have a grudge against a sport and a sporting team (your national team, no less) based on the opinions of a romance novelist?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nick.

That was one of many such articles back then. It's the only one whose author I remember. But there was a tsunami of class prejudice unleashed by that win back in 2003. It was quite shocking to read the articles in the likes of the Times and Telegraph at the time. On the theme of this being the result of the country having a thriving and successful upper middle class after two decades of Thatcherism, while the football team's woes showed how feckless and useless the working class was. Most of the articles weren't as abrupt as that, but the theme was still the same. Cooper's article said pretty much exactly the words I've just put up there.

I'll admit, I've never much liked the game. I appreciate the skill, but as a spectacle it bores me. And for all the working class people who do enjoy and play it, it's a sport that is intimately woven into the fabric of our upper classes. As those articles rawly demonstrated in 2003. So yeah, on balance, I'd prefer for them to stay in their box and not have any reason to spout their bile this weekend. Especially with a very class-based election on the horizon.

[selby]

  Saved us Knighting a few, very surprised at how quiet it has been on radio and TV all day.
    Billy is spot on, all the bile comes from the Rugby Union side, just last week a daily paper was pointing out that the England squad had no players from the North East and Yorkshire areas. and was centred around London and the South East.
  I noticed the crossover idea didn't last long when Wigan won their sevens, and then blasted Bath.
   If Australia ever enter a sevens side of RL players in the Olympics, the rest would be better off not turning up.

[SydneyRover]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-50240391

[idler]

Nick.

That was one of many such articles back then. It's the only one whose author I remember. But there was a tsunami of class prejudice unleashed by that win back in 2003. It was quite shocking to read the articles in the likes of the Times and Telegraph at the time. On the theme of this being the result of the country having a thriving and successful upper middle class after two decades of Thatcherism, while the football team's woes showed how feckless and useless the working class was. Most of the articles weren't as abrupt as that, but the theme was still the same. Cooper's article said pretty much exactly the words I've just put up there.

I'll admit, I've never much liked the game. I appreciate the skill, but as a spectacle it bores me. And for all the working class people who do enjoy and play it, it's a sport that is intimately woven into the fabric of our upper classes. As those articles rawly demonstrated in 2003. So yeah, on balance, I'd prefer for them to stay in their box and not have any reason to spout their bile this weekend. Especially with a very class-based election on the horizon.

I wanted us to win as it is my country but it was almost worth losing to show that bigot Mike Parry up.
His rant on the radio on Friday was disgraceful as well as stupid.
How does that guy make a living in journalism? He must think that the louder he shouts increases the validity of his view.
An absolute disgrace.

[selby]

   Well Syd, as a true Yokshire man, we can always say in the language of Santa, you southern jessies have let us don big time.