General Election 2019 - 12th December

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hard to say what will happen in 2024.

It's obvious that the Brexit Party has done its job. I suspect there'll end up being 40-50 seats where the Tory majority over Labour is smaller than the votes that Farage took off Labour.

Fair play to him. He's done it and we have to accept that.

That won't be an issue in 2024. It's up to Labour to find a leader who can win those voters back. Do that and it's anyone's guess.

None of that changes the fact that this is shattering for Labour though.

[scawsby steve]

Hard to say what will happen in 2024.

It's obvious that the Brexit Party has done its job. I suspect there'll end up being 40-50 seats where the Tory majority over Labour is smaller than the votes that Farage took off Labour.

Fair play to him. He's done it and we have to accept that.

That won't be an issue in 2024. It's up to Labour to find a leader who can win those voters back. Do that and it's anyone's guess.

None of that changes the fact that this is shattering for Labour though.

Totally agree with all of that. It's a pity that John Smith passed away when he did. Personally, I always liked Andy Burnham, but he's pre-occupied with his current job.

John McDonnell and Barry Gardiner both looked shattered men tonight. I take no joy whatsoever in seeing people as browbeaten as that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Very much appreciate those sentiments SS. Whatever you think of political opponents, most of them are in it because they genuinely think they can make the country better. Much as I disliked the Tories, I remember feeling empathy for Major in 1997 at the scale of that defeat. It must feel like the end of the world.

Agreed about Smith too. I think the last 25 years would have been very different if he'd not died when he did. Blair went way too far to the right and Corbyn is a stupid reaction to that.

[Campsall rover]

Hard to say what will happen in 2024.

It's obvious that the Brexit Party has done its job. I suspect there'll end up being 40-50 seats where the Tory majority over Labour is smaller than the votes that Farage took off Labour.

Fair play to him. He's done it and we have to accept that.

That won't be an issue in 2024. It's up to Labour to find a leader who can win those voters back. Do that and it's anyone's guess.

None of that changes the fact that this is shattering for Labour though.

Not being clever BST but i did say yesterday how unpopular Corbyn was with Labour voters.
I had first hand exposure to that with the social research interviews i do.
What is surprising though is how many seats Labour are going to lose. Seats with majorities of 5 to 6000 are going blue such as Don Valley it would seem. Swings of over 7%
Quite staggering really when you see who is the leader of the Conservative party.

Why do the Labour Party keep electing left wing politicians as their leaders.
Foot, Kinnock, Milliband & Corbyn were all unelectable in a Britain which has become more prosperous where the working class are much better off than they were in decades of the past.

Yes those at the bottom on zero hour contracts and some on benefits are not of course.
But those who are working in decent jobs are much better off in the last 30 years than those in the 50’s 60’s 70’s & 80’s
Labour need to live in the real world and have to appeal to a completely different electorate than the one of 30+ years ago.

Until they address their own deficiencies they will be confined to history with regard to governing Britain.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You did Campsall. You called it bang on.

You don't need to convince me by the way. I predicted a disaster like this the moment Corbyn was elected in 2015. Just been trying to make myself believe I was wrong, this past few weeks.

I've got friends who are working class and hate Corbyn and friends who are middle class and hate Corbyn. None of them are Tory supporters but they wouldn't vote Labour with him in charge.

And there's the problem. 20% of the population think he's God. And they can't understand why the other 80% don't.

[SydneyRover]

Tricky balancing act coming up for laour now, remove Corbyn and try to keep the young voters. A lot of younger voters wouldn't vote tory I know but if he's been viewed as a massiah it would put their noses out.

[scawsby steve]

Despite having a lot of female MPs, a lot of Labour supporters are disappointed that the Party has not had a female leader.

I don't know much about Dawn Butler, but she sounded very calm and reasoned on Sky News. Just a thought.

[SydneyRover]

i don't watch sky news in aus Steve but it has really low audience numbers and is rabidly (crazy) far right. what's the uk version like? not having a go genuine question?

[scawsby steve]

i don't watch sky news in aus Steve but it has really low audience numbers and is rabidly (crazy) far right. what's the uk version like? not having a go genuine question?

I find it very impartial Sydney, that's why I like it. I think Sophie Ridge and Beth Rigby are very good.

They used to have a political editor called Joey Jones; I once met him in Whitehall; really nice down to earth bloke.

[SydneyRover]

Thanks Steve, after a bit of googling Sky uk is owned by US comcast where murdoch doesn't appear to have a controlling interest but it difficult to follow the pathways to see. Sky here is panned, ridiculed and controlled by murdovh but apparently watched by right wing mps.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Hard to say what will happen in 2024.

It's obvious that the Brexit Party has done its job. I suspect there'll end up being 40-50 seats where the Tory majority over Labour is smaller than the votes that Farage took off Labour.

Fair play to him. He's done it and we have to accept that.

That won't be an issue in 2024. It's up to Labour to find a leader who can win those voters back. Do that and it's anyone's guess.

None of that changes the fact that this is shattering for Labour though.

Totally agree with all of that. It's a pity that John Smith passed away when he did. Personally, I always liked Andy Burnham, but he's pre-occupied with his current job.

John McDonnell and Barry Gardiner both looked shattered men tonight. I take no joy whatsoever in seeing people as browbeaten as that.

I think Burnham would have been a good shout. Also think the wrong Milliband got elected.

[selby]

  Boris has completely out manoeuvred the Labour party  by forcing an election on the date he wanted, on the main policy he wanted, and conducted the publicity and TV appearences when he wanted, and by who he wanted.

[bpoolrover]

Boris wins easily in Uxbridge

[SydneyRover]

  Boris has completely out manoeuvred the Labour party  by forcing an election on the date he wanted, on the main policy he wanted, and conducted the publicity and TV appearences when he wanted, and by who he wanted.

changed

I think the people have been outmanouvered with brexit but who cares 

added:

I'll expand on that to say that since the first vote which was overwhelming, some of the tories and especially johnson plus a few from other parties have undermined the EU and convinced the british public that it was responsible for everything bad that has happened to them, I'm not the first to say this, largely anything that has been blamed here on the EU has mostly been discredited in large part by bst, but by plenty of others including myself.

On the whole the EU has done a good job spreading wealth around protecting workers rights and stopping wars within the group.

That, and I have said this many times no one is able to show a brexit benefit in three years.

Outmanouvered.

[Metalmicky]

On a plus side sterling has strengthened against the Euro - currently near 1.20, and also against the $ - currently 1.34.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Interesting thing is, this result gives Johnson the power to face down the worst excesses of the ERG and go for a sensible deal with the EU. In that respect, it's far better than the Tories having a 5 seat majority.

Plus, he now has a big choice in the North. Properly invest instead of the Northern Powerhouse bullshit lipservice, or he loses 35 seats in 2024 and with it, his majority.

[Campsall rover]

Interesting thing is, this result gives Johnson the power to face down the worst excesses of the ERG and go for a sensible deal with the EU. In that respect, it's far better than the Tories having a 5 seat majority.

Plus, he now has a big choice in the North. Properly invest instead of the Northern Powerhouse bullshit lipservice, or he loses 35 seats in 2024 and with it, his majority.

That depends who the Labour leader is and the policies they are going to have in their Manifesto.

If they have another left wing leader they are dead meat again.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Interesting thing is, this result gives Johnson the power to face down the worst excesses of the ERG and go for a sensible deal with the EU. In that respect, it's far better than the Tories having a 5 seat majority.

Plus, he now has a big choice in the North. Properly invest instead of the Northern Powerhouse bullshit lipservice, or he loses 35 seats in 2024 and with it, his majority.

Agree with this, it's a huge opportunity for him to really seize ground if he gets it right, the opposition is a mess and he can stick the knife right in.  He has some huge hurdles to overcome but theres a big opportunity for him to prove all those things said about him wrong.

Can he do it? Sceptical but he has so.much power he can make the tories what he wants.

What he will go for though is big debate.

Lots of talk about the mandate he has, but this is a huge win, the tories got a bigger % of the vote than labour in 1997, that's the perspective.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fair point on the comparison with 1997 BFYP.

I hadn't clocked that and that is a big point.

Lesson from history.

Labour from 1997-01 weren't actually very good.

But the Tories fell into a comfort zone of indulging their far right wing membership. And they were a f**king disaster as an opposition. And they lost almost as heavily in 2001.

[drfchound]

Can't understand It if Flint loses her seat she was all for Brexit.

Yes, it's a shame if she does as she was true to her constituents.

Well she wasn’t to me, I emailed Flint on three occasions and she didn’t respond to any of my messages.

[drfchound]

Boris wins easily in Uxbridge

I have been out all day and am just catching up with forum news.
The post above by bpool reminded me that last night someone on here told us that Uxbridge was looking very dodgy for BJ and that he might lose his seat.
As it has turned out he won easily.
This has been a consistent theme on the forum over the last few weeks.
Some of the Labour supporters (not all by the way) have bombarded us with electioneering posts, telling anyone and everyone that they MUST vote Labour and that they are idiots if they don’t.
Even last night we were told that the outcome of this GE was going to be close and that our vote for Labour would effectively save the Nation.

I found it to be uncomfortable to read and resented being told what to do.
I have a mind of my own and actually am uncomfortable with Boris as PM but would have felt worse had, by some miracle, if JC had become PM.

A few weeks ago when I was debating with BST about the fact that one of Johnson or Corbyn would be PM by today, a particular poster responded to me and told me that this GE wasn’t an American style election but that my vote for a Party, not Johnson or Corbyn.
It has turned out to be an American type election in the end.
All I have heard today on the news is about one or the other.

[SydneyRover]

johnson hasn't shown the slightest interest in his carreer so far to anything well so I wouls imagine he will leave others to do the hard work a be a dishevelled figurehead taking ang wins and lying about the mistakes.

Can anyone here point to something that was his initiative that went well?

[drfchound]

johnson hasn't shown the slightest interest in his carreer so far to anything well so I wouls imagine he will leave others to do the hard work a be a dishevelled figurehead taking ang wins and lying about the mistakes.

Can anyone here point to something that was his initiative that went well?

Can anyone prove that he hasn’t initiated any of the decisions that have been made during his tenure?

[Herbert Anchovy]

The fact is, we are now stuck with him for 5 years. I really do genuinely hope he will represent and deliver to those who’ve voted Tory for the first time. He has such responsibility on his shoulders. Thatcher was the same in 79 and shat on the working class. I hope Boris doesn’t do the same.

[SydneyRover]

Can't see him bothering with the drunk feckless criminals myself.

[SydneyRover]

Did labour ignore their own polling or it was or it was wildly wrong?

[DonnyOsmond]

Time for single transferable voting.

[Sprotyrover]

If I were Boris I would be making sure that he keeps the seats he won up here, I think that would be easy for him he hasn't got the tyrannical streak Thatcher had, could you imagine Thatcher going to Stainforth working Men's Club after a flood and taking a bollocking like the one he got!

[Sprotyrover]

The pound is set to to be the strongest best performing currency this year,apparently investment funds all over the world are pouring money into the UK all Boris has to do is to make what's left of the Heavy industrial sites attractive to investors and just watch the jobs, take Flints  old constituency, A measly £300 million to put an East Coast Parkway station into finingley, The Hundreds of Acres at Hatfield turned into industrial enterprise zones, that's the job done here. Wealth generates Tax revenue ,generates sustainable funding in Public serves, just look a Germany.

[Filo]

The pound is set to to be the strongest best performing currency this year,apparently investment funds all over the world are pouring money into the UK all Boris has to do is to make what's left of the Heavy industrial sites attractive to investors and just watch the jobs, take Flints  old constituency, A measly £300 million to put an East Coast Parkway station into finingley, The Hundreds of Acres at Hatfield turned into industrial enterprise zones, that's the job done here. Wealth generates Tax revenue ,generates sustainable funding in Public serves, just look a Germany.

The Hundreds of acres at Hatfield, including a marina and power park has been mooted for at least 10 years, the power park got ditched when the Tory Government withdrew funding for Carbon capture, the Marina which is supposed to be directly behind my house is still growing crops on the land. The only part of that whole project that has got off the ground yet is the start of a link road from junction 5 of the M18 to Hatfield and Stainforth


P.S. The power park was going to be clean technology sited next to Hatfield Pit, and would have secured Hatfield Pit for the next 30 to 40 years supplying coal to the power park, the withdrawing of funding for carbon capture killed both the power park and Hatfield pit