General Election 2019 - 12th December

[drfchound]

Hound.

It's black humour mate. Used to be a lot of that in here.

Fair enough BST, I never considered that.

The political threads, too many of them on here by the way, tend to be very heated at times and not much humour is evident.

[SydneyRover]

''Topham Guerin: The team that helped Scott Morrison win is now working for Boris Johnson and Brexit

Their alchemy helped consign the Labor Party to another three years in political purgatory. Now the same team of digital gurus are working with Boris Johnson to break the Brexit deadlock.

They are Topham Guerin, or TG, a boutique digital marketing agency from New Zealand headed by Sean Topham and Ben Guerin, two Kiwis still in their 20s.

They run what has been dubbed a 24-hour meme machine — a social media firehose of attention-grabbing, emotion-manipulating, behaviour-nudging messaging designed to corral the faithful and convert the fence-sitters''

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-08/topham-guerins-boomer-meme-industrial-complex/11682116

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I'm probably like many across the country agonising over my vote.

Been a Labour voter all my working life but feel totally let down by Corbyn, particularly due to his fence sitting over Brexit. Labour's policy on resolving Brexit is a nonsense.

This election has been called because of the Brexit impass and for that reason, despite my concerns over a range of Conservative policies, Boris is very likely to get my vote. I was considering a tactical vote considering Labour's strong position in Donny but Farage has also f*cked up recently telling some untruths about the detail of the Brexit deal, so I'm hoping Labour get a kicking on this one until such time as they appoint a true leader.

Long term our political system needs a good shake up.

[SydneyRover]

I'm probably like many across the country agonising over my vote.

Been a Labour voter all my working life but feel totally let down by Corbyn, particularly due to his fence sitting over Brexit. Labour's policy on resolving Brexit is a nonsense.

This election has been called because of the Brexit impass and for that reason, despite my concerns over a range of Conservative policies, Boris is very likely to get my vote. I was considering a tactical vote considering Labour's strong position in Donny but Farage has also f*cked up recently telling some untruths about the detail of the Brexit deal, so I'm hoping Labour get a kicking on this one until such time as they appoint a true leader.

Long term our political system needs a good shake up.

Very honest dbr, i suppose you could look over the past 9/10 years and have long think of how the Tories would score out of 10 or 100 with important stuff like wages, tax cuts for the rich, fairness, tax cuts for the rich, Austerity, tax cuts for the rich, sale of Royal Mail to their mates, tax cuts for the rich, social housing, tax cuts for the rich, reduced funding for councils mainly labor held, tax cuts for the rich, Brexit, tax cuts for the rich, spending on infrastructure outside London, tax cuts for the rich, rebuilding the lost traditional industrial areas, tax cuts for the rich, scandals in office, tax cuts for the rich, wasted tax payer money, tax cuts for the rich.

Inveterate liar with his hands on the UK, you get the idea 

[SydneyRover]

labor in Oz got caught with their pants down well and truly with fb and social media and following 3 years of winning polls they lost, this really is/was their story unfortunately written by the other side.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-08/topham-guerins-boomer-meme-industrial-complex/11682116

There is a video which is worth watching about the tactics 22 mins in to the end.

[Donnywolf]

I'm probably like many across the country agonising over my vote.

Been a Labour voter all my working life but feel totally let down by Corbyn, particularly due to his fence sitting over Brexit. Labour's policy on resolving Brexit is a nonsense.

This election has been called because of the Brexit impass and for that reason, despite my concerns over a range of Conservative policies, Boris is very likely to get my vote. I was considering a tactical vote considering Labour's strong position in Donny but Farage has also f*cked up recently telling some untruths about the detail of the Brexit deal, so I'm hoping Labour get a kicking on this one until such time as they appoint a true leader.

Long term our political system needs a good shake up.

I agree with absolutely everything you say - especially the last sentence

Desperate to vote Labour myself but I have issues with Flint as well - but I will have to vote tactically for the first time ever. Being a remainer my options are limited so perhaps Lib Dem but that wont dethrone our local queen will it ?

I could never vote for Farage AND where I guess my main difference with your post is that I would never be a Tory voter and a million times NOT a voter for them when led by that duplicitous scheming lying Johnson

Poor old Gordon Brown almost lost his Election with one interview with "that woman" where he said "who foisted her on me - stupid woman" (I have paraphrased that) - and although rude he would have believed what  he said

Yet Dodgy Doris has pulled all his tricks (above- and I wont go over them ) AND been caught and called out yet he seems to sail on serenely

Its not a Presedential Election - its all our futures on the line and I for one would NEVER vote for such a person as him

[DonnyOsmond]

I'm probably like many across the country agonising over my vote.

Been a Labour voter all my working life but feel totally let down by Corbyn, particularly due to his fence sitting over Brexit. Labour's policy on resolving Brexit is a nonsense.

This election has been called because of the Brexit impass and for that reason, despite my concerns over a range of Conservative policies, Boris is very likely to get my vote. I was considering a tactical vote considering Labour's strong position in Donny but Farage has also f*cked up recently telling some untruths about the detail of the Brexit deal, so I'm hoping Labour get a kicking on this one until such time as they appoint a true leader.

Long term our political system needs a good shake up.

I agree with absolutely everything you say - especially the last sentence

Desperate to vote Labour myself but I have issues with Flint as well - but I will have to vote tactically for the first time ever. Being a remainer my options are limited so perhaps Lib Dem but that wont dethrone our local queen will it ?

I could never vote for Farage AND where I guess my main difference with your post is that I would never be a Tory voter and a million times NOT a voter for them when led by that duplicitous scheming lying Johnson

Poor old Gordon Brown almost lost his Election with one interview with "that woman" where he said "who foisted her on me - stupid woman" (I have paraphrased that) - and although rude he would have believed what  he said

Yet Dodgy Doris has pulled all his tricks (above- and I wont go over them ) AND been caught and called out yet he seems to sail on serenely

Its not a Presedential Election - its all our futures on the line and I for one would NEVER vote for such a person as him

In Don Valley if you don't want Tories in then your best bet is biting the bullet and going for Flint.

[SydneyRover]

I find it strange that any left voter would consider punishing labour more than the Tories?

That may mean one is not exclusively a left voter, a swing voter,a centrist?

[Hounslowrover]

I find it strange that any left voter would consider punishing labour more than the Tories?

That may mean one is not exclusively a left voter, a swing voter,a centrist?

I have to agree, holding your nose and voting Labour has to be preferable to giving the Tories five more years. You just can't trust Boris.

[IDM]

I'm probably like many across the country agonising over my vote.

Been a Labour voter all my working life but feel totally let down by Corbyn, particularly due to his fence sitting over Brexit. Labour's policy on resolving Brexit is a nonsense.

This election has been called because of the Brexit impass and for that reason, despite my concerns over a range of Conservative policies, Boris is very likely to get my vote. I was considering a tactical vote considering Labour's strong position in Donny but Farage has also f*cked up recently telling some untruths about the detail of the Brexit deal, so I'm hoping Labour get a kicking on this one until such time as they appoint a true leader.

Long term our political system needs a good shake up.

Very honest dbr, i suppose you could look over the past 9/10 years and have long think of how the Tories would score out of 10 or 100 with important stuff like wages, tax cuts for the rich, fairness, tax cuts for the rich, Austerity, tax cuts for the rich, sale of Royal Mail to their mates, tax cuts for the rich, social housing, tax cuts for the rich, reduced funding for councils mainly labor held, tax cuts for the rich, Brexit, tax cuts for the rich, spending on infrastructure outside London, tax cuts for the rich, rebuilding the lost traditional industrial areas, tax cuts for the rich, scandals in office, tax cuts for the rich, wasted tax payer money, tax cuts for the rich.

Inveterate liar with his hands on the UK, you get the idea 

You forgot to mention the tax cuts for the rich.!

[Not Now Kato]

I'm probably like many across the country agonising over my vote.

Been a Labour voter all my working life but feel totally let down by Corbyn, particularly due to his fence sitting over Brexit. Labour's policy on resolving Brexit is a nonsense.

This election has been called because of the Brexit impass and for that reason, despite my concerns over a range of Conservative policies, Boris is very likely to get my vote. I was considering a tactical vote considering Labour's strong position in Donny but Farage has also f*cked up recently telling some untruths about the detail of the Brexit deal, so I'm hoping Labour get a kicking on this one until such time as they appoint a true leader.

Long term our political system needs a good shake up.

DBR, you do realise that a vote for the Tories is a vote of approval of Johnson's persistent and outright lies, don't you?
 
If you, and others, can bring yourselves to approve such lying then this country is well and truly screwed. Yes, Corbyn has his faults, but he doesn't outright lie to the public!

[Donnywolf]

I'm probably like many across the country agonising over my vote.

Been a Labour voter all my working life but feel totally let down by Corbyn, particularly due to his fence sitting over Brexit. Labour's policy on resolving Brexit is a nonsense.

This election has been called because of the Brexit impass and for that reason, despite my concerns over a range of Conservative policies, Boris is very likely to get my vote. I was considering a tactical vote considering Labour's strong position in Donny but Farage has also f*cked up recently telling some untruths about the detail of the Brexit deal, so I'm hoping Labour get a kicking on this one until such time as they appoint a true leader.

Long term our political system needs a good shake up.

I agree with absolutely everything you say - especially the last sentence

Desperate to vote Labour myself but I have issues with Flint as well - but I will have to vote tactically for the first time ever. Being a remainer my options are limited so perhaps Lib Dem but that wont dethrone our local queen will it ?

I could never vote for Farage AND where I guess my main difference with your post is that I would never be a Tory voter and a million times NOT a voter for them when led by that duplicitous scheming lying Johnson

Poor old Gordon Brown almost lost his Election with one interview with "that woman" where he said "who foisted her on me - stupid woman" (I have paraphrased that) - and although rude he would have believed what  he said

Yet Dodgy Doris has pulled all his tricks (above- and I wont go over them ) AND been caught and called out yet he seems to sail on serenely

Its not a Presedential Election - its all our futures on the line and I for one would NEVER vote for such a person as him

In Don Valley if you don't want Tories in then your best bet is biting the bullet and going for Flint.

As a remainer (or remoaner on here) it is a difficult one for me personally to vote for Ms Flint. I watched her and Jezza in Donny beseeching listeners NOT to vote Leave and yet here we are 3 years on - or more I suppose with her seemingly having changed her mind under the guise of her Constituency voted Leave and she supports that view

Personally I would vote Remain tomorrow if given the chance (I dont seem to match my Consituency profile nor the National "age related" profile)

I will not get that second chance to vote Remain unless we end up in a hung state again in Parliament and the way to that I think is make sure the Tories do not get a majority. That will mean voting tactically (maybe) to ensure they cant win my Seat, which after all that rambling means as you suggest I might have to vote for Flint - through EXTREMELY gritted teeth

[wing commander]

  And the latest Mp caught out trying to mislead voters is Anna Soubry.There she was on camera Gleefully talking to Graham who said he voted leave,but would now be voting for her as he was now remain..

  Thing is if you are going to make these stage managed video's you must make sure your stool pigeon has all his ducks in a row.And especially make sure he hasn't posted pictures on his twitter account from the referendum were he was actively campaigning for remain..

   The only vote I would consider right now is one banning every bloody mp standing again,and a fresh start...

[SydneyRover]

Why not just throw out those that cheat and lie?

[bobbymax]

I'm probably like many across the country agonising over my vote.

Been a Labour voter all my working life but feel totally let down by Corbyn, particularly due to his fence sitting over Brexit. Labour's policy on resolving Brexit is a nonsense.

This election has been called because of the Brexit impass and for that reason, despite my concerns over a range of Conservative policies, Boris is very likely to get my vote. I was considering a tactical vote considering Labour's strong position in Donny but Farage has also f*cked up recently telling some untruths about the detail of the Brexit deal, so I'm hoping Labour get a kicking on this one until such time as they appoint a true leader.

Long term our political system needs a good shake up.

How on earth any previous Labour supporter could vote for Johnson simply beggars belief! Have you actually paid any attention to what he and his cronies are trying to do to this country? I'm no fan of Corbyn but he's Labour leader until he's voted out. Voting for Johnson just to help that aim along is just plain bonkers.

[DonnyOsmond]

That logic from Baz. Corbyn wants to leave but has gone along with the party. It's the same as May wanting to stay but going along with the party.

Labours policy on Brexit, to get a deal and then put it to the people is the only one that has any chance of bringing people back together and isn't nonsense.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I'm not getting into any debate about lies etc as they're all as bad as each other with the twisting of facts and scaremongering. It was only a short time ago they were discussing standards of behaviour but it hasn't taken long for the gloves to be taken off. The depths some MPs go to point score is pathetic.

I think this election will show we have reached an all time low when it comes to standards of behaviour and that's why I believe once this is done we need deep political reform  and an end to the pantomime that is the House of Commons. Its a museum piece and with it overflowing it is ever more so confrontational. Let's have a new parliament building fit for purpose together with a new set of behavioral standards and procedures.

[i_ateallthepies]

I'm not getting into any debate about lies etc as they're all as bad as each other with the twisting of facts and scaremongering. It was only a short time ago they were discussing standards of behaviour but it hasn't taken long for the gloves to be taken off. The depths some MPs go to point score is pathetic.

I think this election will show we have reached an all time low when it comes to standards of behaviour and that's why I believe once this is done we need deep political reform  and an end to the pantomime that is the House of Commons. Its a museum piece and with it overflowing it is ever more so confrontational. Let's have a new parliament building fit for purpose together with a new set of behavioral standards and procedures.

DBR, I have always valued your contributions to debate on here as reasoned and reasonable so I can only take that one statement to be the result of just being worn down by this whole sorry saga.  Never thought I would read that from you.

[i_ateallthepies]

That logic from Baz. Corbyn wants to leave but has gone along with the party. It's the same as May wanting to stay but going along with the party.

Labours policy on Brexit, to get a deal and then put it to the people is the only one that has any chance of bringing people back together and isn't nonsense.

DO, you and I are on the same page as regards our political (and B****t) leanings but on your last point you're wrong.  I agree that the policy would be the one with the best chance of bringing the nation back together but as a policy to win votes in a GE it will be an unmitigated disaster.  B****t has been made into an allegiance defining issue and as such will - added to the unpopularity of Corbyn - give Labour an election bloody nose like we have never seen before.

[jucyberry]

100% agreed Wing Co.

What scares me more than anything about modern politics is that arguable lying has been normalised.

Politics has always involved putting the best gloss on your side and over emphasising the negatives of the other side.

But that is different from lying. 

Politicians didn't used to engage in outright lies. Being caught on that used to mean instant dismissal.

But that's all changed rapidly over recent years. Now outright lying is being seen as normal. And that is desperately dangerous, because it means discussion and decisions cannot be based on sensible analysis. You look round for a "fact" to support your case (hands up. I seem to have done that in the unemployment numbers and if you make that mistake, it's important to accept that you're wrong and accept the actual facts.)

I don't care which party a politician supports. If they lie and deceive egregiously, they need calling out. Again and again. But as you say, it does seem to be coming more from the Tories and the LDs (and from Farage, obviously ..he's been doing it for years) than from Labour or the SNP or the Greens.

Lying has become the new norm because far too many are either too busy, lazy or too daft to do a little fact checking and research.

Look at the photo of Johnson surrounded by crowds, then look at the true picture of them all crammed tightly together in a corner in a desperate attempt to make him seem far more popular than he is.

It really does frustrate me.

[Padge_DRFC]

How is the tactical voting going in Doncaster? Torie or Brexit party to keep labour out? Looks like as it stands the 2 together will have more votes than labour but split

[drfchound]

I'm not getting into any debate about lies etc as they're all as bad as each other with the twisting of facts and scaremongering. It was only a short time ago they were discussing standards of behaviour but it hasn't taken long for the gloves to be taken off. The depths some MPs go to point score is pathetic.

I think this election will show we have reached an all time low when it comes to standards of behaviour and that's why I believe once this is done we need deep political reform  and an end to the pantomime that is the House of Commons. Its a museum piece and with it overflowing it is ever more so confrontational. Let's have a new parliament building fit for purpose together with a new set of behavioral standards and procedures.

DBR, I have always valued your contributions to debate on here as reasoned and reasonable so I can only take that one statement to be the result of just being worn down by this whole sorry saga.  Never thought I would read that from you.

I agree with DBR on the point of them all being the same and the twisting of facts.
The lot of them are in it for themselves.
We won’t be the only two people who think along those lines either.

[Not Now Kato]

I'm not getting into any debate about lies etc as they're all as bad as each other with the twisting of facts and scaremongering. It was only a short time ago they were discussing standards of behaviour but it hasn't taken long for the gloves to be taken off. The depths some MPs go to point score is pathetic.

I think this election will show we have reached an all time low when it comes to standards of behaviour and that's why I believe once this is done we need deep political reform  and an end to the pantomime that is the House of Commons. Its a museum piece and with it overflowing it is ever more so confrontational. Let's have a new parliament building fit for purpose together with a new set of behavioral standards and procedures.

DBR, I have always valued your contributions to debate on here as reasoned and reasonable so I can only take that one statement to be the result of just being worn down by this whole sorry saga.  Never thought I would read that from you.

I agree with DBR on the point of them all being the same and the twisting of facts.
The lot of them are in it for themselves.
We won’t be the only two people who think along those lines either.

And you won't be the only two who would be wrong.

[drfchound]

I'm not getting into any debate about lies etc as they're all as bad as each other with the twisting of facts and scaremongering. It was only a short time ago they were discussing standards of behaviour but it hasn't taken long for the gloves to be taken off. The depths some MPs go to point score is pathetic.

I think this election will show we have reached an all time low when it comes to standards of behaviour and that's why I believe once this is done we need deep political reform  and an end to the pantomime that is the House of Commons. Its a museum piece and with it overflowing it is ever more so confrontational. Let's have a new parliament building fit for purpose together with a new set of behavioral standards and procedures.

DBR, I have always valued your contributions to debate on here as reasoned and reasonable so I can only take that one statement to be the result of just being worn down by this whole sorry saga.  Never thought I would read that from you.

I agree with DBR on the point of them all being the same and the twisting of facts.
The lot of them are in it for themselves.
We won’t be the only two people who think along those lines either.

And you won't be the only two who would be wrong.

In your opinion of course.

[SydneyRover]

Johnson on his own would have told more lies throughout his career than the whole of parliament put together and they have been more damaging too. If you or anyone needs an excuse to support the Tory's then use the tired old excuse that they're all the same but it doesn't really wash does it.

That what the Tories have done through the media is harp on about the mistakes of labour and this is the result.

My post about how they have inundated the media with constant messages to crowd out common sense seems to have worked

[Not Now Kato]

I'm not getting into any debate about lies etc as they're all as bad as each other with the twisting of facts and scaremongering. It was only a short time ago they were discussing standards of behaviour but it hasn't taken long for the gloves to be taken off. The depths some MPs go to point score is pathetic.

I think this election will show we have reached an all time low when it comes to standards of behaviour and that's why I believe once this is done we need deep political reform  and an end to the pantomime that is the House of Commons. Its a museum piece and with it overflowing it is ever more so confrontational. Let's have a new parliament building fit for purpose together with a new set of behavioral standards and procedures.

DBR, I have always valued your contributions to debate on here as reasoned and reasonable so I can only take that one statement to be the result of just being worn down by this whole sorry saga.  Never thought I would read that from you.

I agree with DBR on the point of them all being the same and the twisting of facts.
The lot of them are in it for themselves.
We won’t be the only two people who think along those lines either.

And you won't be the only two who would be wrong.

In your opinion of course.

Nope, fact.  That's why a number of them have put their jobs at risk by voting for what they believe is best for their electorate and the country as a whole, against the way their electorate voted in the referendum.
 
Also, some politicians do not twist facts, some politicians do not tell lies and some politicians did not 'fiddle their expenses'.  They are most certainly not 'all the same'.

[Not Now Kato]

Here's another list of the outright lies that Boris Johnson has told....
 
https://boris-johnson-lies.com/
 
 
And people honestly think he's a better bet than Jeremy Corbyn?
 
Ye gods and little fishes, what does this guy have to do before people will see sense?

[drfchound]

Johnson on his own would have told more lies throughout his career than the whole of parliament put together and they have been more damaging too. If you or anyone needs an excuse to support the Tory's then use the tired old excuse that they're all the same but it doesn't really wash does it.

That what the Tories have done through the media is harp on about the mistakes of labour and this is the result.

My post about how they have inundated the media with constant messages to crowd out common sense seems to have worked

I haven’t said who I will vote for Sydney, if indeed I bother to vote at all, so I really don’t need the lecture from you thank you.
I would be interested to know if you could back up that first sentence too, about the numbers of lies told by BJ.
I don’t think you can.

You bang on about the Torys being bad but never tell us what the Labour people will do better if they ever win an election.

[SydneyRover]

Your opinion of course

[drfchound]

Your opinion of course

Along with others ......... of course.   👍