General Election 2019 - 12th December

[drfchound]

.......and as I have said elsewhere, that is not strictly true.
In Don Valley if I vote for Labour then they win by one more vote.
A vote for someone else and Labour win by one less vote.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound. Check that other thread. That is now flat wrong according to YouGov

[Glyn_Wigley]

By God there's some straw clutching going on tonight on here.

Remind me, how many days has it been since the arch-hypocrite coward Johnson was taunting others by telling them to 'man up'?

[foxbat]

Just been reading about a failing state where the leader tried to shut down Parliament and refuses to face the press and even wants to shut down TV stations that don’t agree with him.

 Oh sorry -that’s us.

[Filo]

Just been reading about a failing state where the leader tried to shut down Parliament and refuses to face the press and even wants to shut down TV stations that don’t agree with him.

 Oh sorry -that’s us.

Too far fetched, the book will never sell

[Donnywolf]

By God there's some straw clutching going on tonight on here.

Remind me, how many days has it been since the arch-hypocrite coward Johnson was taunting others by telling them to 'man up'?

Is it 10 billion ? I only ask as Corbyn said it was 8 Billion so Pinocchio will have trumped that by now

[scawsby steve]

By God there's some straw clutching going on tonight on here.

Remind me, how many days has it been since the arch-hypocrite coward Johnson was taunting others by telling them to 'man up'?

What the f*ck has that to do with anything I've said?

[Glyn_Wigley]

By God there's some straw clutching going on tonight on here.

Remind me, how many days has it been since the arch-hypocrite coward Johnson was taunting others by telling them to 'man up'?

What the f*ck has that to do with anything I've said?

Because no-one has to clutch straws when Johnson is too yellow to act by his own standards.

[scawsby steve]

By God there's some straw clutching going on tonight on here.

Remind me, how many days has it been since the arch-hypocrite coward Johnson was taunting others by telling them to 'man up'?

What the f*ck has that to do with anything I've said?

Because no-one has to clutch straws when Johnson is too yellow to act by his own standards.

Dec 12th Glynn. Don't be late.

[wilts rover]

In the 2017 GE a Tory candidate had one of his election posters defaced with an ant-Tory message. The culprit has yet to be identified.

In this GE the same Tory candidate has had the same election poster further defaced by the addition of a swastika - whilst the poster was in his sole possession in his house. The culprit has yet to be identified.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/simon-hart-pembrokeshire-swastika-graffiti-nazi-sympathy-election-christina-rees-a9226291.html

[idler]

The deceit just goes on and on.

[SydneyRover]

The first bit of 'graffiti' was spot on, the second bit looks like a confession 

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've never agreed with those who say all politicians lie.

But f**k me, it's getting more prevalent these days.

This. This is f**king disgraceful.

https://mobile.twitter.com/joswinson/status/1201950272639164416

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Aye that is a lie, it's clear to me that a vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's a vote against JOHNSON'S Brexit. Of course.

It's a vote for a confirmatory referendum on a specific, defined form of Brexit. If the people decide they don't want that, don't you think that would be an acceptable outcome?

Or. Put it another way. Where is your evidence that a majority in the country want Johnson's Brexit?

[Donnywolf]

I dont think there IS a majority and no matter how many times they mention it and trot out "the will of the British people" - I think they too know a second ref would probably deliver a Remain vote.

Thats why they tried to avoid one at all costs. They f****d the Electorate by dissing the original Referendum 75/6 without a vote being cast until 2016 and want to deliver the coup de grace now

....and thats where the oppostion blew their big chance when Johnson was desperate to get his deal through ANY WAY he could. Labour and Swinson SHOULD have said ok we guarantee to pass it through every stage in the 3 days we have got as long as it then goes to the people  and is a simple Johnsons deal or Remain

They would have had to duck it and everyone would have known why

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's a vote against JOHNSON'S Brexit. Of course.

It's a vote for a confirmatory referendum on a specific, defined form of Brexit. If the people decide they don't want that, don't you think that would be an acceptable outcome?

Or. Put it another way. Where is your evidence that a majority in the country want Johnson's Brexit?

No, I don't think it would be acceptable, I'm fairly laid back on it albeit would be frustrated, but there are many out there who are not that laid back and there is a serious risk of major disorder, surely that is concerning.

I do not agree with an approach of "well this deal isn't right so let's stop the whole thing".

I do agree there is no majority though and some people will have to accept it won't go there way.  Where we will probably agree is it has opened a chasm that will exist for a long period of time.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Aye that is a lie, it's clear to me that a vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit.

I’m voting Labour AND feel that Brexit should go ahead. Just not Johnson’s car crash Brexit.

[Metalmicky]

I see The Mail is running a story on Corbyn, his IRA links and anti-Semite leanings.... It doesn't make good reading - and is one of the main reasons that many people won't vote Labour - at least not whilst JC is leading the party.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7752923/Jeremy-Corbyn-bomb-makers-friend-IRA-terrorist-admirer-Corbyn.html

[Herbert Anchovy]

I see The Mail is running a story on Corbyn, his IRA links and anti-Semite leanings.... It doesn't make good reading - and is one of the main reasons that many people won't vote Labour - at least not whilst JC is leading the party.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7752923/Jeremy-Corbyn-bomb-makers-friend-IRA-terrorist-admirer-Corbyn.html

The Daily Mail? That’ll be a fair and balanced piece then.

[Metalmicky]

I see The Mail is running a story on Corbyn, his IRA links and anti-Semite leanings.... It doesn't make good reading - and is one of the main reasons that many people won't vote Labour - at least not whilst JC is leading the party.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7752923/Jeremy-Corbyn-bomb-makers-friend-IRA-terrorist-admirer-Corbyn.html

The Daily Mail? That’ll be a fair and balanced piece then.

Just putting it out there............. there's been many links to Boris bashing stories - so surely it's only fair to show both sides....?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see The Mail is running a story on Corbyn, his IRA links and anti-Semite leanings.... It doesn't make good reading - and is one of the main reasons that many people won't vote Labour - at least not whilst JC is leading the party.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7752923/Jeremy-Corbyn-bomb-makers-friend-IRA-terrorist-admirer-Corbyn.html

The Mail? Running a story on anti-Semitism? That's the same Mail that ran approving articles about Hitler and complained about Jews coming to the UK from Germany and bringing diseases with them.

An utterly, utterly, disgusting rag.

And if you want to see where the REAL cesspit of racism is in this country, look in their Comments sections.

https://medium.com/@bestofthemail/i-was-upvoted-for-posting-nazi-propaganda-about-migrants-in-the-daily-mail-8996899810b4

[Metalmicky]

I see The Mail is running a story on Corbyn, his IRA links and anti-Semite leanings.... It doesn't make good reading - and is one of the main reasons that many people won't vote Labour - at least not whilst JC is leading the party.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7752923/Jeremy-Corbyn-bomb-makers-friend-IRA-terrorist-admirer-Corbyn.html

The Mail? Running a story on anti-Semitism? That's the same Mail that ran approving articles about Hitler and complained about Jews coming to the UK from Germany and bringing diseases with them.

An utterly, utterly, disgusting rag.

And if you want to see where the REAL cesspit of racism is in this country, look in their Comments sections.

https://medium.com/@bestofthemail/i-was-upvoted-for-posting-nazi-propaganda-about-migrants-in-the-daily-mail-8996899810b4

Not saying that everything in the Daily mail is unbiased (or at least not as unbiased as some on here....) but thought it was fair to post a story that if correct doesn't paint Corbyn well....... No doubt there will be denials and counter arguments; however, it's good to show both sides - don't you agree?

[BillyStubbsTears]

MM

Ok. I've heard that Mail piece is making waves, so I've gone against my policy of never reading it (because it deliberately and knowingly misled it's readers about my company in an article a few years ago, so I assume it never prints the truth).

The premise of that article appears to be that there is a deep connection between Corbyn and a convicted IRA man, who also happens to be a vicious Jew hater.

Let's take the anti-Semitism thing first.

The evidence they cite is a letter in which the IRA man writes:

'The tragedy of the Zionist final solution to the Palestinian problem recalls the horrors of Nazism itself.

'The fact the Jews were persecuted and butchered by fascists and racists does not give them the right to inflict such treatment on a totally different people.'

The journalist then says 'His language is remarkably similar to that used by anti-Semites in Mr Corbyn's current circle.'

I must be missing something here because I'm not seeing raging anti-Semitism. I'm seeing (what I would say is entirely justified) severe criticism of the policy of the Israeli state against the Palestinians.


Ok. Onto Corbyn's connections with her man.

That appears to be a series of nudge-nudge rumours. This bit in particular is shocking journalism.
"(The IRA man's letters from prison) reveal how his morale improved during imprisonment thanks to the efforts of sympathisers prepared to help him and his girlfriend start a new life. One of them was Jeremy Corbyn."

No evidence given to support that final sentence. None whatsoever.

If this is the Mail's silver bullet for Corbyn, it's very poor quality stuff. But then they have previous in writing this sort of shite. Remember the article before the 2015 Election about how Ed Milliband's dad hated Britain apparently. The evidence being that he was on the far left and had written books about how the rich elite screw down the workers. And if course, while the Mail was supporting Hitler, Milliband's dad had signed up and served throughout WWII in the Royal Navy.

As I say. A disgusting propaganda rag.

[SydneyRover]

Analysis / Bias
The Daily Mail is a known a supporter of the Conservatives. They are also one of the pro-Brexit tabloids and according to a Reuters article, the Daily Mail published a controversial headline in response to a Brexit Court ruling criticizing the judges, by branding them as ‘enemies of the people’ According to CNBC, the Daily mail also has been criticized by Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales for publishing fake news articles and “hyped up” headlines and “mastered the art of running stories that aren’t true’”.  Further, CNBC reported that DMG media responded by saying “DailyMail.com is the very antithesis of click-bait and hype headlines. We just tell stories better than anyone else.”
In review, the Daily Mail tends to publish stories utilizing sensationalized headlines with emotionally loaded wordings such as “Woman, 63, ‘becomes PREGNANT in the mouth’ with baby squid after eating calamari”, which is a misleading headline. In 2017, Wikipedia banned the Daily Mail as an ‘unreliable’ source. When it comes to sourcing information they use minimal hyperlinked sourcing as well as sourcing to themselves. In general, most stories favor the right, however the Daily Mail will report either side if the story is sensational enough.
A factual search reveals that the Daily Mail has a poor track record with fact checkers. Here are a few failed fact checks:
•   Did the Daily Mail Delete a Story Reporting the U.S. Planned to Blame Assad for ‘False Flag’ Chemical Attacks? – Mostly True
•   “Google search spike suggests many people don’t know why they voted for Brexit.” – Mostly False
•   Is Using ‘Bug Spray’ to Get High an Alarming New Trend? – Mostly False
•   Did a White House Intern Make the ‘White Power’ Hand Gesture? – Unproven
•   Did ‘Melbourne Antifa’ Claim Responsibility for the Vegas Massacre? – False
•   Are Vigilante Protesters Digging Up Confederate Graves After Charlottesville Clashes? – Mostly False
•   “Racist picture of Democrat North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper emerges just days after he called on Ralph Northam to resign – DAILY MAIL.” – Pants on Fire
Overall, we rate Daily Mail Questionable due to numerous failed fact checks and poor sourcing of information. (7/19/2016) Updated (M. Huitsing 10/24/2019)
Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk

[Metalmicky]

Purely for the purpose of impartiality here, but there are other outlets who suggest that Corbyn has been less than authoritarian against antisemitism...

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-leaked-document-casts-doubt-on-corbyn-antisemitism-claim

Additionally his IRA sympathies are well documented - I'm sure that you are well aware of these - there are literally dozens of articles associating him with the IRA.

[Metalmicky]

I know that BST and Sydney will no doubt belittle me now - as is their will; however, I think it's important in a thread entitled 'General Election 2019 - 12th December' that both sides are reflected.  I've personally got little faith in either leader of the two main parties and have also slated Boris, but I also think it is important to reflect all sides equally. 

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

MM

Ok. I've heard that Mail piece is making waves, so I've gone against my policy of never reading it (because it deliberately and knowingly misled it's readers about my company in an article a few years ago, so I assume it never prints the truth).

Seperate topic but I totally understand this, it's actually part of my reason for disliking Corbyn's labour so much having had to watch him spout about the 2 companies I worked for a load of basic rubbish. He either didn't understand the position or is lying, both are worrying, that and socialist campaigners physically celebrating outside the office.  I wish I could go in to it more.....   Note that is personal to my experience I have no doubt and accept fully the same to be said about politicians of other parties.  It certainly opens your eyes when you're involved in political and news stories how much the media and press at best bend the truth but blatantly misinform and it really doesn't want you to have involvment with any of them.

As for the rubbish about Corbyn, he has some issues and some past, but I don't feel it's anything new and there's more important stuff to talk about.

[BillyStubbsTears]

MM
Yes. I agree that Corbyn supported the IRA. I've written about it on here several times.

That's not the issue here. The issue is whether there is anything in that article that adds anything of substance to the discussion.

[Metalmicky]

MM
Yes. I agree that Corbyn supported the IRA. I've written about it on here several times.

That's not my issue here.  My issue is whether there is anything in that article that adds anything of substance to the discussion.

corrected for you.