Tom Watson Stands Down

[Bentley Bullet]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50325666?fbclid=IwAR0pQTScD_PL716NA0-nCcgaOGdAj1EzsQty5QHlHPIcNemg-Zmof9mHwaY

[BobG]

Jesus H Christ... I sometimes wonder if Corbyn is a secret agent of the Conservative Party. In days of yore, I used to wonder the same about Tony Benn. If you could set up, exactly as you wished, a political party designed to never, ever win anything, then Benn and Corbyn would be the masters. WTF does Corbyn think he's doing? Gaining extreme loyalty from 20% of the electorate, which is still pretty much all he's got, ought to tell him that he has no option other than broadening the appeal of the party he leads. Losing Tom Watson, whether he was pushed or whether he jumped, is an extremely bad move indeed.

Indecisive? Illiterate? Unintelligent? (2 'E's at A level) Unwise? And totally, utterly blind to the world around him. Yep. That's Jeremy Corbyn. He should fight tooth and nail to keep Tom Watson. Now everyone will think the Labour Party is in disarray, yet again, they won't know who the No. 2 will be that they are being asked to vote for, and, for folks with some experience and wisdom, the smell of infighting, corruption and personal power grabbing gets ever stronger. The Labouir Party isn't a political party any more.  It is a personal power vehicle for a very small group based on a narrow sectional interest group. It is rapidly becoming no more than a pressure group. And that is utterly shameful given the position in which the country finds itself. He seems to have forgotten the job of the official opposition: to challenge the party in government, to offer alternative solutions and to ensure a broad enough apeal to win the next general election. Corbyn has consistently done none of these things. He is unfit to lead a whelk stall.

And I have loathed the Tory Party for 40 years now...

BobG

[Sprotyrover]

Jesus H Christ... I sometimes wonder if Corbyn is a secret agent of the Conservative Party. In days of yore, I used to wonder the same about Tony Benn. If you could set up, exactly as you wished, a political party designed to never, ever win anything, then Benn and Corbyn would be the masters. WTF does Corbyn think he's doing? Gaining extreme loyalty from 20% of the electorate, which is still pretty much all he's got, ought to tell him that he has no option other than broadening the appeal of the party he leads. Losing Tom Watson, whether he was pushed or whether he jumped, is an extremely bad move indeed.

Indecisive? Illiterate? Unintelligent? (2 'E's at A level) Unwise? And totally, utterly blind to the world around him. Yep. That's Jeremy Corbyn. He should fight tooth and nail to keep Tom Watson. Now everyone will think the Labour Party is in disarray, yet again, they won't know who the No. 2 will be that they are being asked to vote for, and, for folks with some experience and wisdom, the smell of infighting, corruption and personal power grabbing gets ever stronger. The Labouir Party isn't a political party any more.  It is a personal power vehicle for a very small group based on a narrow sectional interest group. It is rapidly becoming no more than a pressure group. And that is utterly shameful given the position in which the country finds itself. He seems to have forgotten the job of the official opposition: to challenge the party in government, to offer alternative solutions and to ensure a broad enough apeal to win the next general election. Corbyn has consistently done none of these things. He is unfit to lead a whelk stall.

And I have loathed the Tory Party for 40 years now...

BobG

A similar scenario  to the Michael Foot Era, I thought the Labour Party had learnt its lesson back then but they sleep walked back into the same place they had been in back then,then they 'jumped off the cliff'

[albie]

Steps down for personal reasons, on his twitter;
https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1192169894479122433

Strange timing if for any other reason.

[drfchound]

Steps down for personal reasons, on his twitter;
https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1192169894479122433

Strange timing if for any other reason.

The piece I read seemed to indicate a personal fall out with Corbyn so it might be a mutual decision for him to quit.
However he may be toning things down to try and help the Party leading into the GE.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well, that's what Momentum wanted. They've been attacking him for years and saying he should be booted out.

They've got their result now. It really is their party. I assume they know what they are doing.

[BobG]

Im sure they do Billy. They'll know what they're doing in infinite detail. They want control of the party and they want no dissenting voices. They've just about got both now. That's why Tom Watson is so important. Does anybody really believe he chose this exact moment to stand down of his own free will? It is possible, but he's too experienced a politician to make a stupid mistake like that. On the very eve of a general election? No. He's been pushed out. Engineered out. So what do Momentum do now? I'm not sure. They'd love to form the next government of course but they have eff all chance of doing that. So to me, the basic options are either they'll either implode like after Michael Foot, or, they'll fade into obscure irrelevancy. But either way they'll take the hopes and dreams of 60% of the population of this country with them. I now place that shower on the same pedestal as Milton Friedman, Thatcher and Reagan. Destruction by and for dogma. Nothing constructive. Nothing positive. Nothing hopeful. They are an embarrassment to the entire nation.

What odds could I get on the Labour Party winning fewer than 175 seats? I think that could be a fair punt. The Labour heartlands have turned away because they want Brexit. The Labour intelligentsia have turned away because they don't. That's a very impressive feat for the Labour leader to have achieved don't you think? The bloke's a living, breathing disaster.

BobG

[SydneyRover]

I agree JC and momentum are left wing but at least they will at least attempt to stop the suffering of the working poor, end Austerity, start putting an end to food banks, look after the homeless and tax high earners, shut down tax loopholes and maybe even cut off the Russians that are buying up the Tories. This in itself would help the country heal and start to reduce the massive inequalities.

I can't any of this being a priority for the tories as most of this has occurred under their rule, including the massive waste of oil monies that could have been put either into rebuilding the old industries and towns or into a 'future fund' for everyone's benefit.

These are the choices, allow the Tories to continue with the wrecking ball tactics or put labor in that wouldn't.

And by the way I haven't heard a squeak from those painting JC as a communist/Stalin/Trotsky jump up and say boris and the blowhards are the same, didn't they learn anything from the Kim Philby disaster?

[SydneyRover]

''Does anybody really believe he chose this exact moment to stand down of his own free will? It is possible, but he's too experienced a politician to make a stupid mistake like that. On the very eve of a general election? No. He's been pushed out'' bobG.

He could hardly resign while momentum were trying to push him out all the way to the labor conference which was only in late Sept could he? and lose face so he has only had just over a month to see the results of the conference and make his mind up.

[Donnywolf]

What odds could I get on the Labour Party winning fewer than 175 seats? I think that could be a fair punt. The Labour heartlands have turned away because they want Brexit. The Labour intelligentsia have turned away because they don't. That's a very impressive feat for the Labour leader to have achieved don't you think? The bloke's a living, breathing disaster.

BobG

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/labour-number-of-seats

Hi Bob - long time since I saw you at Forest Green with Alonzo and Gran

Only 7/5 for less than 200

[Ldr]

I agree JC and momentum are left wing but at least they will at least attempt to stop the suffering of the working poor, end Austerity, start putting an end to food banks, look after the homeless and tax high earners, shut down tax loopholes and maybe even cut off the Russians that are buying up the Tories. This in itself would help the country heal and start to reduce the massive inequalities.

I can't any of this being a priority for the tories as most of this has occurred under their rule, including the massive waste of oil monies that could have been put either into rebuilding the old industries and towns or into a 'future fund' for everyone's benefit.

These are the choices, allow the Tories to continue with the wrecking ball tactics or put labor in that wouldn't.

And by the way I haven't heard a squeak from those painting JC as a communist/Stalin/Trotsky jump up and say boris and the blowhards are the same, didn't they learn anything from the Kim Philby disaster?

Boris and the blowhards (sounds like a 70s band mind) are easily as bad

[SydneyRover]

And you know this how LDR?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Im sure they do Billy. They'll know what they're doing in infinite detail. They want control of the party and they want no dissenting voices. They've just about got both now. That's why Tom Watson is so important. Does anybody really believe he chose this exact moment to stand down of his own free will? It is possible, but he's too experienced a politician to make a stupid mistake like that. On the very eve of a general election? No. He's been pushed out. Engineered out. So what do Momentum do now? I'm not sure. They'd love to form the next government of course but they have eff all chance of doing that. So to me, the basic options are either they'll either implode like after Michael Foot, or, they'll fade into obscure irrelevancy. But either way they'll take the hopes and dreams of 60% of the population of this country with them. I now place that shower on the same pedestal as Milton Friedman, Thatcher and Reagan. Destruction by and for dogma. Nothing constructive. Nothing positive. Nothing hopeful. They are an embarrassment to the entire nation.

What odds could I get on the Labour Party winning fewer than 175 seats? I think that could be a fair punt. The Labour heartlands have turned away because they want Brexit. The Labour intelligentsia have turned away because they don't. That's a very impressive feat for the Labour leader to have achieved don't you think? The bloke's a living, breathing disaster.

BobG

They didn't implode after Michael Foot, it took a Neil Kinnock to take them on headfirst - and they didn't even get a Deputy Leader in position then, let alone a Leader. The thing is, I'm not sure if the Labour Party has a Neil Kinnock in waiting at the moment to do the same again.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The situation is entirely different to the mid-80s.

Now the Left controls every button and lever if the Labour party. There's no way they can be challenged. So they'd better be right that they can win an election, because this IS the Labour party for the rest of most of our lives.

[i_ateallthepies]

I agree JC and momentum are left wing but at least they will at least attempt to stop the suffering of the working poor, end Austerity, start putting an end to food banks, look after the homeless and tax high earners, shut down tax loopholes and maybe even cut off the Russians that are buying up the Tories. This in itself would help the country heal and start to reduce the massive inequalities.

I can't any of this being a priority for the tories as most of this has occurred under their rule, including the massive waste of oil monies that could have been put either into rebuilding the old industries and towns or into a 'future fund' for everyone's benefit.

These are the choices, allow the Tories to continue with the wrecking ball tactics or put labor in that wouldn't.

And by the way I haven't heard a squeak from those painting JC as a communist/Stalin/Trotsky jump up and say boris and the blowhards are the same, didn't they learn anything from the Kim Philby disaster?

Sydney, you are totally deluded if you actually believe Labour will get anywhere near winning.  He won't even get a coalition to put him in power.  We're f**ked, TOTALLY f**kED!  by Corbyn and his minions.

[drfchound]

I agree JC and momentum are left wing but at least they will at least attempt to stop the suffering of the working poor, end Austerity, start putting an end to food banks, look after the homeless and tax high earners, shut down tax loopholes and maybe even cut off the Russians that are buying up the Tories. This in itself would help the country heal and start to reduce the massive inequalities.

I can't any of this being a priority for the tories as most of this has occurred under their rule, including the massive waste of oil monies that could have been put either into rebuilding the old industries and towns or into a 'future fund' for everyone's benefit.

These are the choices, allow the Tories to continue with the wrecking ball tactics or put labor in that wouldn't.

And by the way I haven't heard a squeak from those painting JC as a communist/Stalin/Trotsky jump up and say boris and the blowhards are the same, didn't they learn anything from the Kim Philby disaster?

We have seen all the Labour promises before haven't we.
When you have no chance of winning you can promise anything you want in the hope of making the other lot look bad without ever having to worry about having to deliver.

[BobG]

I agree JC and momentum are left wing but at least they will at least attempt to stop the suffering of the working poor, end Austerity, start putting an end to food banks, look after the homeless and tax high earners, shut down tax loopholes and maybe even cut off the Russians that are buying up the Tories. This in itself would help the country heal and start to reduce the massive inequalities.

I can't any of this being a priority for the tories as most of this has occurred under their rule, including the massive waste of oil monies that could have been put either into rebuilding the old industries and towns or into a 'future fund' for everyone's benefit.

These are the choices, allow the Tories to continue with the wrecking ball tactics or put labor in that wouldn't.

And by the way I haven't heard a squeak from those painting JC as a communist/Stalin/Trotsky jump up and say boris and the blowhards are the same, didn't they learn anything from the Kim Philby disaster?

You're dead right Sydney. They could do all of that. And it would be totally brilliant if they did. But tell me, please, how are they ever going to be in position to deliver?  The Labour Party is unelectable. The fatheads who lead it now seem to have no sense, or knowledge, of history. I have a very good mate who once told me "When something isn't working, doing more of the same won't change the result". Have this lot never heard of Michael Foot?

They can talk all the wonderful bullshit they like. Unless and until they can actually deliver, it's all hot air, blowing in the wind.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

What Labour is proposing is textbook capitalist economics. We've been brainwashed into thinking that can't be done by 40 years of Thatcherite dogma, but that doesn't change the basic facts. Labour's policy of investment in infrastructure wouldn't have been considered outrageous in the 50s and 60s when Govt was paying for an entire motorway network. And the economy grew far more strongly and stably than it has done this decade.

[drfchound]

That is history now though BST.
Labour can’t win this GE so they can promise whatever they want to, knowing that they won’t have to deliver it.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Hound.

What Labour is proposing is textbook capitalist economics. We've been brainwashed into thinking that can't be done by 40 years of Thatcherite dogma, but that doesn't change the basic facts. Labour's policy of investment in infrastructure wouldn't have been considered outrageous in the 50s and 60s when Govt was paying for an entire motorway network. And the economy grew far more strongly and stably than it has done this decade.

Really bst?  It seems like too much spending to me. I agree spending as a positive but is it not too much?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

By what metric is it too much?

We have grossly under invested in infrastructure for 40 years, and in particular over the past ten years.

Basic economic theory says that, in a depressed economy like ours has been for a decade, Govt investment of any sort raises economic performance through the multiplier effect.

Company A wins a Govt contract. They spend money. They buy things from other companies. That puts money in their accounts etc etc.

Meanwhile, Company A's staff get higher pay. They spend it. It goes into the economy and ripples out. The extra activity this produces demands extra investment from companies from food shops to garden suppliers to car sellers who now have a bigger market.

That leads to higher overall economic performance and higher tax take by Govt which goes some significant way to offsetting the original investment.

Even if it doesn't, the markets are prepared to lend to Govt for 10-30 years at pretty much zero interest rates. So we can fund better roads, rail, houses,schools, hospitals, broadband at the cheapest rates ever. And that infrastructure will benefit the country for a century.

We SHOULD have been doing this is in 2010. We WOULD have done but for the idiotic disaster of Austerity. It's even more pressing now.

[SydneyRover]

I agree JC and momentum are left wing but at least they will at least attempt to stop the suffering of the working poor, end Austerity, start putting an end to food banks, look after the homeless and tax high earners, shut down tax loopholes and maybe even cut off the Russians that are buying up the Tories. This in itself would help the country heal and start to reduce the massive inequalities.

I can't any of this being a priority for the tories as most of this has occurred under their rule, including the massive waste of oil monies that could have been put either into rebuilding the old industries and towns or into a 'future fund' for everyone's benefit.

These are the choices, allow the Tories to continue with the wrecking ball tactics or put labor in that wouldn't.

And by the way I haven't heard a squeak from those painting JC as a communist/Stalin/Trotsky jump up and say boris and the blowhards are the same, didn't they learn anything from the Kim Philby disaster?

Sydney, you are totally deluded if you actually believe Labour will get anywhere near winning.  He won't even get a coalition to put him in power.  We're f**ked, TOTALLY f**kED!  by Corbyn and his minions.

[SydneyRover]

I agree JC and momentum are left wing but at least they will at least attempt to stop the suffering of the working poor, end Austerity, start putting an end to food banks, look after the homeless and tax high earners, shut down tax loopholes and maybe even cut off the Russians that are buying up the Tories. This in itself would help the country heal and start to reduce the massive inequalities.

I can't any of this being a priority for the tories as most of this has occurred under their rule, including the massive waste of oil monies that could have been put either into rebuilding the old industries and towns or into a 'future fund' for everyone's benefit.

These are the choices, allow the Tories to continue with the wrecking ball tactics or put labor in that wouldn't.

And by the way I haven't heard a squeak from those painting JC as a communist/Stalin/Trotsky jump up and say boris and the blowhards are the same, didn't they learn anything from the Kim Philby disaster?

Sydney, you are totally deluded if you actually believe Labour will get anywhere near winning.  He won't even get a coalition to put him in power.  We're f**ked, TOTALLY f**kED!  by Corbyn and his minions.

At election time you have to approach the task as a 'winning team' otherwise even more would write you off, look at the LDs for example so I don't have problem with labour putting out their wish list, 5 weeks is a helluva long time in politics. We may yet find an orphanage in Bulgaria full of Johnson's kids 😊

[BobG]

Why does no one ever mention that appalling recording of the fat blond bas**rd agreeing to find out where a journalist lived so his ex Eton mate could have him beaten up? It's not hard to find. It was conspiracy to commit a crime of violence. A crime designed to benefit one of the fat bas**rds' mates at the expense of someone who was doing his job.

Cheers

BobG

[SydneyRover]

Why does no one ever mention that appalling recording of the fat blond bas**rd agreeing to find out where a journalist lived so his ex Eton mate could have him beaten up? It's not hard to find. It was conspiracy to commit a crime of violence. A crime designed to benefit one of the fat bas**rds' mates at the expense of someone who was doing his job.

Cheers

BobG

It has been mentioned quite a bit whilst you were absent Bob but few seem to want to talk about his appalling behavior for any reason.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You'll be wanting to look at this from 08:20 onwards.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DZAxA-9D4X3o&ved=2ahUKEwiax4Cl5eXlAhVLilwKHfVUD-4Qo7QBMAJ6BAgAEAY&usg=AOvVaw3ctC57qaRtf3pHqbTVuK9v

Just look at the pathetic, snivelling excuse for a man, when he's quizzed on his past by a real journalist, not the simpering, ill-prepared f**kwits the BBC now employs.

[BobG]

I can't bring myself to listen Billy. I know I should focus on Eddie - but the tones of that awful, awful man leave me quivering: with rage, with despair, witha  juvenile hatred even. It upsets my equilibrium. That's a state that too many are in already. So I'm not going to impose that on myself. Mind you, I have sent the link to quite a few people I know - with the suggestion they distribute it far and wide

Cheers

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's the original phone call for those who haven't heard it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DC9MUwBEJRwk&ved=2ahUKEwjhofrCmujlAhVKSsAKHT9MDXQQo7QBMAB6BAgAEAI&usg=AOvVaw3GJuYh_aiFM1wIYOcCsLmN

In the interview with Mair, Johnson defended himself by saying he was humouring a friend who was a bit worked up.

Have a listen to the recording of the phone call. Ask yourself if, when he says "How badly are you going to hurt this guy,? I really need to know. If this guy sues me I'll be f**king furious. Darius, if I get trouble..."

Does that sound like you when you're humouring a mate who's a bit worked up?

By the way. Pinch yourself. This man currently runs the country, and 40% of the electorate are saying they are going to vote for him. We're truly through the looking glass.

[wilts rover]

Only just seen this thread.

I thought it was well known that Tom Watson stood down because Harvey Proctor, supported by Lord Dannants son, was going to stand against him.

if you don't know why that would have been extremely embarrassing for Watson, and create some very negative headlines for Labour made worse by Lord Bramall dying yesterday, then google it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts.

Yer man's gone. You won that fight. You don't need to stick your sword in the corpse.