Bravery

[BillyStubbsTears]

Once again SS. No interest in who wins, as long as the other side loses.

Lovely.

PS
Isaac Newton also believed in alchemy. He spent much of his later life huddled over cauldrons trying to turn lead into gold. What do you make of that?

Albert Einstein did not believe in the sort of God you read about in the Bible or Talmud or Koran. More the concept of something beyond the Universe. But certainly not the sort who you would pray to, or who would intervene in human affairs and offer life after death.

[scawsby steve]

Once again SS. No interest in who wins, as long as the other side loses.

Lovely.

PS
Isaac Newton also believed in alchemy. He spent much of his later life huddled over cauldrons trying to turn lead into gold. What do you make of that?

Albert Einstein did not believe in the sort of God you read about in the Bible or Talmud or Koran. More the concept of something beyond the Universe. But certainly not the sort who you would pray to, or who would intervene in human affairs and offer life after death.

He also said there is no scientific evidence that God either exists or doesn't exist. However, that's not my point. You disagree with me without insulting me. I appreciate that. The other poster accused me of spouting nonsense and believing in tooth fairies.

Tooth fairies aren't on the curriculum at Oxford and Cambridge Universities, but Theology is.

[Not Now Kato]

That's a lot of god's Kato 

And every one of them a Sky Fairy, invented by man to control and manipulate people.

Strange then, that 3 of the greatest scientists ever, Newton, Darwin, and Einstein, didn't share your views.

You've been reading too much Karl Marx. I think you'd be better off reading Groucho Marx.

What the Donald Duck are you on about SS?  So, three scientists say what exactly?  And with what proof?
 
Meanwhile, what about the other 2699 supposed 'Gods'?
 
I suppose you believe in the Tooth Fairy too!

What do you believe in? When it comes to referendums and elections you're always on the losing side. It's always those in the minority that shout the loudest.

So, no answers then SS.  Typical, spout nonsense then fail to answer when questioned.
 
As to what I believe in, one universe of which our one world is but a tiny part, (and us, as individuals, an infinite dot on an infinite dot, infinitely small).  But we are still learning about both, the knowledge of which is significantly better than believing in myths and magic; and will lead in time to a better understanding and a better way of life.  Meanwhile, we are all here for a short while, then we'll vanish and fade, and the memory of it all will be gone; best make the most of it while we can without harming others by our thoughts and deeds; and hope that what we pass on will lead to better things for the world and for future generations.

I don't spout nonsense about anything. Your trouble is that you're not in touch with your own soul. Plus you like to shout off your minority opinions about everything.

I'm now starting to look forward to the 12th. I wasn't that bothered about it, but now I am if it shuts up the traps of people like you.

As I say SS, no answers!  And what exactly are people like me?

[scawsby steve]

That's a lot of god's Kato 

And every one of them a Sky Fairy, invented by man to control and manipulate people.

Strange then, that 3 of the greatest scientists ever, Newton, Darwin, and Einstein, didn't share your views.

You've been reading too much Karl Marx. I think you'd be better off reading Groucho Marx.

What the Donald Duck are you on about SS?  So, three scientists say what exactly?  And with what proof?
 
Meanwhile, what about the other 2699 supposed 'Gods'?
 
I suppose you believe in the Tooth Fairy too!

What do you believe in? When it comes to referendums and elections you're always on the losing side. It's always those in the minority that shout the loudest.

So, no answers then SS.  Typical, spout nonsense then fail to answer when questioned.
 
As to what I believe in, one universe of which our one world is but a tiny part, (and us, as individuals, an infinite dot on an infinite dot, infinitely small).  But we are still learning about both, the knowledge of which is significantly better than believing in myths and magic; and will lead in time to a better understanding and a better way of life.  Meanwhile, we are all here for a short while, then we'll vanish and fade, and the memory of it all will be gone; best make the most of it while we can without harming others by our thoughts and deeds; and hope that what we pass on will lead to better things for the world and for future generations.

I don't spout nonsense about anything. Your trouble is that you're not in touch with your own soul. Plus you like to shout off your minority opinions about everything.

I'm now starting to look forward to the 12th. I wasn't that bothered about it, but now I am if it shuts up the traps of people like you.

As I say SS, no answers!  And what exactly are people like me?

Someone who shouts everyone else's opinions down, despite always being in the minority; and no, I don't believe in tooth fairies, and seeing as you keep accusing me of having no answers, I'll ask you for an answer; would Oxford and Cambridge Universities have a subject on their curriculum that's full of nonsense?

[SydneyRover]

Eurostat's Eurobarometer survey in December 2018 found that 53.6% of UK's population is Christian, while 6.2% belong to other religions and 40.2% are non-religious (30.3% Agnostics, 9.9% Atheists).

[scawsby steve]

Eurostat's Eurobarometer survey in December 2018 found that 53.6% of UK's population is Christian, while 6.2% belong to other religions and 40.2% are non-religious (30.3% Agnostics, 9.9% Atheists).

Thanks for that Sydney. As I suspected atheists are in the minority, despite the sneering that some of them do.

[drfchound]

I seem to remember reading a couple of years or so back that said that in the next twelve years the UK would be a predominantly Muslim country.

[SydneyRover]

Eurostat's Eurobarometer survey in December 2018 found that 53.6% of UK's population is Christian, while 6.2% belong to other religions and 40.2% are non-religious (30.3% Agnostics, 9.9% Atheists).

Thanks for that Sydney. As I suspected atheists are in the minority, despite the sneering that some of them do.

My pleasure Steve put me down as an non-sneery atheistic, agnostic humanist 

[Not Now Kato]

That's a lot of god's Kato 

And every one of them a Sky Fairy, invented by man to control and manipulate people.

Strange then, that 3 of the greatest scientists ever, Newton, Darwin, and Einstein, didn't share your views.

You've been reading too much Karl Marx. I think you'd be better off reading Groucho Marx.

What the Donald Duck are you on about SS?  So, three scientists say what exactly?  And with what proof?
 
Meanwhile, what about the other 2699 supposed 'Gods'?
 
I suppose you believe in the Tooth Fairy too!

What do you believe in? When it comes to referendums and elections you're always on the losing side. It's always those in the minority that shout the loudest.

So, no answers then SS.  Typical, spout nonsense then fail to answer when questioned.
 
As to what I believe in, one universe of which our one world is but a tiny part, (and us, as individuals, an infinite dot on an infinite dot, infinitely small).  But we are still learning about both, the knowledge of which is significantly better than believing in myths and magic; and will lead in time to a better understanding and a better way of life.  Meanwhile, we are all here for a short while, then we'll vanish and fade, and the memory of it all will be gone; best make the most of it while we can without harming others by our thoughts and deeds; and hope that what we pass on will lead to better things for the world and for future generations.

I don't spout nonsense about anything. Your trouble is that you're not in touch with your own soul. Plus you like to shout off your minority opinions about everything.

I'm now starting to look forward to the 12th. I wasn't that bothered about it, but now I am if it shuts up the traps of people like you.

As I say SS, no answers!  And what exactly are people like me?

Someone who shouts everyone else's opinions down, despite always being in the minority; and no, I don't believe in tooth fairies, and seeing as you keep accusing me of having no answers, I'll ask you for an answer; would Oxford and Cambridge Universities have a subject on their curriculum that's full of nonsense?

Yes.  And I've answered your questions.  So, are you still unable to answer mine?

[Not Now Kato]

Eurostat's Eurobarometer survey in December 2018 found that 53.6% of UK's population is Christian, while 6.2% belong to other religions and 40.2% are non-religious (30.3% Agnostics, 9.9% Atheists).

An interesting stat SR.  I wonder how many people practice their religion as opposed to stating it in a questionnaire?
 
There has certainly been a decline in people identifying as Christian over the 10 years between the England and Wales Census' of 2001 and 2011, (latest available) -

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/articles/howreligionhaschangedinenglandandwales/2015-06-04
 
The footnote is also interesting: -
 
Footnotes:

The England and Wales census asked the same voluntary religion question in 2011 as was asked in 2001. The question (‘What is your religion?’) asks about religious affiliation, that is how we connect or identify with a religion, irrespective of actual practise or belief. There are other aspects of religion such as religious belief, religious practice or belonging which are not covered by our analyses.

A more detailed breakdown of religion in England and Wales based on the 2011 survey can be found at: -
 
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/articles/fullstorywhatdoesthecensustellusaboutreligionin2011/2013-05-16

[SydneyRover]

Decline of Christianity

The decline of Christianity is an ongoing trend in Europe.[1] Developed countries with good educational facilities in the post-World War II era have shifted towards post-Christian, secular, globalized, multicultural and multifaith societies. Infant baptism has declined in many nations, with thousands of churches closing or merging due to lack of attendees. There is also evidence of decline in North America. Despite the decline, Christianity remains the dominant religion in the Western world, where 70% of the population is nominally Christian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Christianity

I declined religion from around the age of 10

I think there is a lot of religious insurance taken out Kato because of fear of the unknown.

[Not Now Kato]

Indeed SR.  And from the stats in the links I posted above it is clear that it is the older generation that is clinging on to Christianity whilst less of the younger generation are accepting it, (or indeed any other religion).

[Herbert Anchovy]

Indeed SR.  And from the stats in the links I posted above it is clear that it is the older generation that is clinging on to Christianity whilst less of the younger generation are accepting it, (or indeed any other religion).

I’ve never really understood Atheists determination to demean or belittle those who believe in God! Why should it bother them? It doesn’t make any difference to the life of an atheist if a bloke believes in God does it? I believe in God. I’m not religious, but I do have faith. I know there’s a God. Not necessarily an old bloke in the sky with a long white beard, but there is a higher force. Things happened in my life when I was an atheist that convinced me of this. We are all able to make a choice for ourselves. Believe or not. It’s not my job to convince an atheist that God exists, just as it’s not the job of an atheist to prove God doesnt exist. Atheist fundamentalists are the same as religious fundamentalists...a total pain in the arse.

[SydneyRover]

Agree with you HA, but, and I'm not pointing at anyone here if you are accused of not having a soul whatever that means or other terms then what? At least I don't have vegitarians and anti vaxxers knocking at my door trying to convert me.

Further to that education is expensive and precious I don't believe time and money should be spent on introctrinating kids until they're old enough to understand better.

And further I certainly do not agree with religious bodies being given tax free status unless that portion of the operation is 100% 'devoted' to looking after those less well off or unwell or the community. There should be no financial advantage given to an organization that teaches religion.

Studies at university to understand religion is fine by me as it is not indoctrination.

[Not Now Kato]

Indeed SR.  And from the stats in the links I posted above it is clear that it is the older generation that is clinging on to Christianity whilst less of the younger generation are accepting it, (or indeed any other religion).

I’ve never really understood Atheists determination to demean or belittle those who believe in God! Why should it bother them? It doesn’t make any difference to the life of an atheist if a bloke believes in God does it? I believe in God. I’m not religious, but I do have faith. I know there’s a God. Not necessarily an old bloke in the sky with a long white beard, but there is a higher force. Things happened in my life when I was an atheist that convinced me of this. We are all able to make a choice for ourselves. Believe or not. It’s not my job to convince an atheist that God exists, just as it’s not the job of an atheist to prove God doesnt exist. Atheist fundamentalists are the same as religious fundamentalists...a total pain in the arse.

There is no determination on my part to demean or belittle those who believe in a 'God', and I do not believe I have done so.  What I have done is ask a number of questions, none of which have been answered, whilst answering all those asked of me.  It's called debate, though certain members don't, for whatever reason, want to take part in that debate and simply make unsubstantiated statements and belittling comments.
 
Yes, you're right, we should all be able to make a choice for ourselves; but that 'choice' should, (as in any other issue), be based on information and facts, not manipulation, misinformation and fear - tools used by many religions.  History is so laden with examples of the misuse of religion as to bring the concept into serious question.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Indeed SR.  And from the stats in the links I posted above it is clear that it is the older generation that is clinging on to Christianity whilst less of the younger generation are accepting it, (or indeed any other religion).

I’ve never really understood Atheists determination to demean or belittle those who believe in God! Why should it bother them? It doesn’t make any difference to the life of an atheist if a bloke believes in God does it? I believe in God. I’m not religious, but I do have faith. I know there’s a God. Not necessarily an old bloke in the sky with a long white beard, but there is a higher force. Things happened in my life when I was an atheist that convinced me of this. We are all able to make a choice for ourselves. Believe or not. It’s not my job to convince an atheist that God exists, just as it’s not the job of an atheist to prove God doesnt exist. Atheist fundamentalists are the same as religious fundamentalists...a total pain in the arse.

There is no determination on my part to demean or belittle those who believe in a 'God', and I do not believe I have done so.  What I have done is ask a number of questions, none of which have been answered, whilst answering all those asked of me.  It's called debate, though certain members don't, for whatever reason, want to take part in that debate and simply make unsubstantiated statements and belittling comments.
 
Yes, you're right, we should all be able to make a choice for ourselves; but that 'choice' should, (as in any other issue), be based on information and facts, not manipulation, misinformation and fear - tools used by many religions.  History is so laden with examples of the misuse of religion as to bring the concept into serious question.

NNK

Didn’t you compare God to Sky Fairies? That may not seem offensive to you but to some it can be incredibly offensive!!

For the record, I do agree with you regarding religion. It has been used as an excuse for carrying out atrocities for millennia. However, man made religions, and the opposition of these, does not equate to believing in the existence of a higher power. Deism is the belief in a God, but not following an ‘organised’ doctrine. This is where I belong. It is impossible to prove the existence of God. I could tell you my own tale of how I moved from atheism to a belief, but you’d think I was mad!! It’s much, much more profound than that though. It’s faith in something you can’t physically see, hear or touch but it is something that, when you open yourself up to it, is definitely ‘real’. That’s the best way I can explain it, and even that doesn’t really do the job. Fundamentally, I firmly believe it’s everyone’s choice...you either believe or not. Either way, one day each of us will know for sure.

[Axholme Lion]

I seem to remember reading a couple of years or so back that said that in the next twelve years the UK would be a predominantly Muslim country.

And then you will really see the tolerant peace loving face of Islam when they get the whip hand and we will be treat like dogs and eventually wiped out.

[SydneyRover]

The short time I have spent in muslim countries I have been treated with respect and those that I came in contact with were friendly and sharing, especially away from the tourist areas.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I seem to remember reading a couple of years or so back that said that in the next twelve years the UK would be a predominantly Muslim country.

And then you will really see the tolerant peace loving face of Islam when they get the whip hand and we will be treat like dogs and eventually wiped out.

When you dig under that jokey unpleasant façade, you're actually really unpleasant aren't you.

[Not Now Kato]

Indeed SR.  And from the stats in the links I posted above it is clear that it is the older generation that is clinging on to Christianity whilst less of the younger generation are accepting it, (or indeed any other religion).

I’ve never really understood Atheists determination to demean or belittle those who believe in God! Why should it bother them? It doesn’t make any difference to the life of an atheist if a bloke believes in God does it? I believe in God. I’m not religious, but I do have faith. I know there’s a God. Not necessarily an old bloke in the sky with a long white beard, but there is a higher force. Things happened in my life when I was an atheist that convinced me of this. We are all able to make a choice for ourselves. Believe or not. It’s not my job to convince an atheist that God exists, just as it’s not the job of an atheist to prove God doesnt exist. Atheist fundamentalists are the same as religious fundamentalists...a total pain in the arse.

There is no determination on my part to demean or belittle those who believe in a 'God', and I do not believe I have done so.  What I have done is ask a number of questions, none of which have been answered, whilst answering all those asked of me.  It's called debate, though certain members don't, for whatever reason, want to take part in that debate and simply make unsubstantiated statements and belittling comments.
 
Yes, you're right, we should all be able to make a choice for ourselves; but that 'choice' should, (as in any other issue), be based on information and facts, not manipulation, misinformation and fear - tools used by many religions.  History is so laden with examples of the misuse of religion as to bring the concept into serious question.

NNK

Didn’t you compare God to Sky Fairies? That may not seem offensive to you but to some it can be incredibly offensive!!

It wasn't a comparison, more a statement.  The majority of the major religions postulate that the 'good' will go 'up' to heaven, (the sky), whilst the 'bad' will go 'down' to hell.  My apologies if my statement caused offence.
 
One guy I used to know was an incredibly devout Christian, attending church three times each Sunday without fail.  He was also the most unchristian and nasty person I've ever come across - climbing over anybody and everybody to get on!  I wonder which way he believes he will go at his end as opposed to the way his 'maker' would have him go according to his religion?
 
That is not meant to be demeaning in any way, just an observation of things as I see them.

For the record, I do agree with you regarding religion. It has been used as an excuse for carrying out atrocities for millennia. However, man made religions, and the opposition of these, does not equate to believing in the existence of a higher power. Deism is the belief in a God, but not following an ‘organised’ doctrine. This is where I belong. It is impossible to prove the existence of God. I could tell you my own tale of how I moved from atheism to a belief, but you’d think I was mad!! It’s much, much more profound than that though. It’s faith in something you can’t physically see, hear or touch but it is something that, when you open yourself up to it, is definitely ‘real’. That’s the best way I can explain it, and even that doesn’t really do the job. Fundamentally, I firmly believe it’s everyone’s choice...you either believe or not. Either way, one day each of us will know for sure.

There are many unexplained things that happen in our lives, I've experienced a few and will share one here as an example....  I was working very late in the office one evening.  I was completely alone.  The only people in the building were security manning reception four floors below.  I needed the toilet and went into cubicle 1. When I'd finished, I stood up to wipe, and as I wiped the toilet flushed itself - the handle on the cistern went down of its accord - there was no one on the floor I was on - there was no one in the cubicle with me - and at no point did I touch the cistern or handle.
 
So, was it God?  Was it a Ghost?  I do not believe it was either as neither exist so far as I can determine based on the lack of evidence to the contrary.  There HAS to be a rational explanation, but for the life of me I cannot come up with one, maybe people will think I was mad, or at least imagining it; but I can assure you that it most certainly happened exactly as posted above.  In the end, we will all experience things that we cannot find a concrete proof for.
 
You are right though, in that it is everyone's choice to believe or not; but that choice should be an informed one, not one based on a one sided doctrine taught in schools, churches etc.  Oh, and I'm not sure that either way, one day each of us will know for sure - if you're right the we will indeed know, if you're wrong then it ends right there with no memory carry-over, just as it does for all other animals on the planet who, coincidentally, don't practice religion of any form.
 
Whether we believe or not, we should all do our best to enjoy the time we've been blessed with.  Hopefully without causing harm to others in the process.

[Not Now Kato]

I seem to remember reading a couple of years or so back that said that in the next twelve years the UK would be a predominantly Muslim country.

And then you will really see the tolerant peace loving face of Islam when they get the whip hand and we will be treat like dogs and eventually wiped out.

Hound, that's the kind on nonsense put out by the likes of the Mail and the Express.
 
AL, you should stop reading the likes of the Mail and the Express.

[Axholme Lion]

I seem to remember reading a couple of years or so back that said that in the next twelve years the UK would be a predominantly Muslim country.

And then you will really see the tolerant peace loving face of Islam when they get the whip hand and we will be treat like dogs and eventually wiped out.

Hound, that's the kind on nonsense put out by the likes of the Mail and the Express.
 
AL, you should stop reading the likes of the Mail and the Express.

What's nonsense about it? Do you believe the hard line fanatics amongst them would allow us to carry on as we are? I truly cannot see it happening.

[Axholme Lion]

I seem to remember reading a couple of years or so back that said that in the next twelve years the UK would be a predominantly Muslim country.

And then you will really see the tolerant peace loving face of Islam when they get the whip hand and we will be treat like dogs and eventually wiped out.

When you dig under that jokey unpleasant façade, you're actually really unpleasant aren't you.

When this becomes a muslim majority country how do you think we will be treat? Serious question.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's not a serious question AL. It's a stupid non-question.

It's like asking, when the sun comes up as a block of ice, what are you going to do.

[Axholme Lion]

It's not a serious question AL. It's a stupid non-question.

It's like asking, when the sun comes up as a block of ice, what are you going to do.

Why is it a stupid question? This country WILL become a Muslim majority country. What do you think will happen to us?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Grow up. What's the current proportion of Muslims in this country, after 60 years of immigration?

[Axholme Lion]

Grow up. What's the current proportion of Muslims in this country, after 60 years of immigration?

Isn't it Labour policy to open the doors to anyone?

[scawsby steve]

Indeed SR.  And from the stats in the links I posted above it is clear that it is the older generation that is clinging on to Christianity whilst less of the younger generation are accepting it, (or indeed any other religion).

I’ve never really understood Atheists determination to demean or belittle those who believe in God! Why should it bother them? It doesn’t make any difference to the life of an atheist if a bloke believes in God does it? I believe in God. I’m not religious, but I do have faith. I know there’s a God. Not necessarily an old bloke in the sky with a long white beard, but there is a higher force. Things happened in my life when I was an atheist that convinced me of this. We are all able to make a choice for ourselves. Believe or not. It’s not my job to convince an atheist that God exists, just as it’s not the job of an atheist to prove God doesnt exist. Atheist fundamentalists are the same as religious fundamentalists...a total pain in the arse.

Herbert, I've disagreed with you on certain subjects, but I have to tell you mate, that's the best, fairest, and most honest post I've ever read on here on any subject.

Well done mate, you've got a great mind and soul.

[tommy toes]

I've nothing against anybody believing in God as long as they do it quietly.

No need to go into the atrocities committed in the name of one organised religion or another over the centuries and up to the present day.

I've just finished reading a biography of Thomas Cromwell. Blimey, in those days you could be hung drawn and quartered for practically anything if you wavered slightly from the true religion.
Absolutely laughable if it wasn't so cruel.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Indeed SR.  And from the stats in the links I posted above it is clear that it is the older generation that is clinging on to Christianity whilst less of the younger generation are accepting it, (or indeed any other religion).

I’ve never really understood Atheists determination to demean or belittle those who believe in God! Why should it bother them? It doesn’t make any difference to the life of an atheist if a bloke believes in God does it? I believe in God. I’m not religious, but I do have faith. I know there’s a God. Not necessarily an old bloke in the sky with a long white beard, but there is a higher force. Things happened in my life when I was an atheist that convinced me of this. We are all able to make a choice for ourselves. Believe or not. It’s not my job to convince an atheist that God exists, just as it’s not the job of an atheist to prove God doesnt exist. Atheist fundamentalists are the same as religious fundamentalists...a total pain in the arse.

Herbert, I've disagreed with you on certain subjects, but I have to tell you mate, that's the best, fairest, and most honest post I've ever read on here on any subject.

Well done mate, you've got a great mind and soul.

Cheers SS, that’s really kind of you to say so