Minimum wage

[Axholme Lion]

If Labour bring in a minimum wage of £10 per hour, what will happen to all the people now on more than the current minimum wage but below £10 per hour when they see people doing easier, less responsible jobs than themselves put onto an equal footing as themselves? It can't be right for them not to expect a rise to keep the differential there but will it happen in reality. If you can get £10 per hour on a supermarket checkout why bother doing anything more taxing if you're currently on £9.50 per hour for doing a more difficult job?

[BillyStubbsTears]

That's the whole point. It pushes up ALL low wages.

It's a step on the road to start changing the last 40 years, where low wages have been kept low, with the proceeds of growth going disproportionately to the richest. It desperately needs addressing, both for economic reasons (because the poorest proportionally spend more of their income and help get money circulating through the economy) and morally (because the levels of working poverty we have in Britain are an utter disgrace).

[Axholme Lion]

That's the whole point. It pushes up ALL low wages.

It's a step on the road to start changing the last 40 years, where low wages have been kept low, with the proceeds of growth going disproportionately to the richest. It desperately needs addressing, both for economic reasons (because the poorest proportionally spend more of their income and help get money circulating through the economy) and morally (because the levels of working poverty we have in Britain are an utter disgrace).

But do you really think it would? If i'm on a tenner an hour now and some 21 year old gets lumped up to £10 p/h from £8.21 p/h, do you really see my employer saying there you go have another £1.79 p/h on me? It would be nice but all I could see happening is employers making staff redundant to fund the difference.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's precisely what I've just done in my company. A young lad has finished his apprenticeship. We put him up to a significantly higher wage and upped the lads who were above him too.

By the way, the Tories said for years that the minimum wage would destroy jobs. It doesn't.

[drfchound]

Yep BST and that is a good thing to do but I think that AL has a point there because not everyone will do what you have done.

[Axholme Lion]

It's precisely what I've just done in my company. A young lad has finished his apprenticeship. We put him up to a significantly higher wage and upped the lads who were above him too.

By the way, the Tories said for years that the minimum wage would destroy jobs. It doesn't.

I applaud what you have done, however I can assure you that would definitely not be the case where I work. They would come up with every excuse in the book that they couldn't afford it. I am sure that this would be the case in the majority of companies.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Then folk need to push back. If we still had strong unions...

[drfchound]

I don’t understand the call for Unions.
Anyone who has been on strike for any length of time will not recover the money they lose when on strike unless they get an enormous pay rise.

[Axholme Lion]

Then folk need to push back. If we still had strong unions...

That's all well and good in a larger company but at the smaller end of the scale where there are only one or two hundred employees the management can make whatever decision they see fit. All my manager sees is their personal bonus for departmental profitability. I think raising the minimum wage is great for the lower end younger workers but could be unfair towards more senior and older workers who should be paid more.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound

There were some figures published a few years ago.

Back in the 60s and 70s, when we had strong unions, for every £1 that GDP went up, median wages went up 90p. By 2010, with the unions smashed, the figure was 57p.

Just ponder that for a while.

THAT is the issue. It's a long term thing. 1% here and there is NOT worth fighting for, you're right. But over a generation, if the workers are weak, those 1%s get lost year after year after year. And it adds up to the grotesquely unequal distribution of the proceeds of growth and the in-work poverty we have today.

Oh aye. And we had stronger economic growth in the 60s and 70s than we have today. The line that the unions weakened the economy is demonstrable bullshit.

[Axholme Lion]

Hound

There were some figures published a few years ago.

Back in the 60s and 70s, when we had strong unions, for every £1 that GDP went up, median wages went up 90p. By 2010, with the unions smashed, the figure was 57p.

Just ponder that for a while.

THAT is the issue. It's a long term thing. 1% here and there is NOT worth fighting for, you're right. But over a generation, if the workers are weak, those 1%s get lost year after year after year. And it adds up to the grotesquely unequal distribution of the proceeds of growth and the in-work poverty we have today.

Oh aye. And we had stronger economic growth in the 60s and 70s than we have today. The line that the unions weakened the economy is demonstrable bullshit.

Isn't that before we joined the EEC/EU? 

[drfchound]

BST, that won’t be much consolation to the miners or the steel workers I guess.

[Nudga]

People like me can't afford to employ young people now.
You don't get what you pay for.

Bring back the YTS scheme.
Young lads now expect £400 a week for doing f**k all whilst looking at their phones.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's precisely what I've just done in my company. A young lad has finished his apprenticeship. We put him up to a significantly higher wage and upped the lads who were above him too.

By the way, the Tories said for years that the minimum wage would destroy jobs. It doesn't.

I fundamentally disagree with that, simply because I have recommended and actually reduced working hours personally to staff when minimum wages have increased.

See here is a problem, often the price has to be pushed back on to somebody and in some cases if the client cannot afford it there is a choice to be made and they see a reduction in service.

[SydneyRover]

When you have had a pay rise have you reduced your own hours bfyp?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.

I'm talking about the effect on a national scale.

https://minimumwage.blog.gov.uk/2019/02/01/effects-of-the-minimum-wage-on-employment-and-automaton-lpc-publishes-new-commissioned-research/

If decent sized companies can't survive without paying their staff less than a tenner an hour, that raises questions about their business model.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

When you have had a pay rise have you reduced your own hours bfyp?

I am not paid hourly and nor is my pay linked to minimum wage so it's irrelevant.

[SydneyRover]

Of course 

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BFYP.

I'm talking about the effect on a national scale.

https://minimumwage.blog.gov.uk/2019/02/01/effects-of-the-minimum-wage-on-employment-and-automaton-lpc-publishes-new-commissioned-research/

If decent sized companies can't survive without paying their staff less than a tenner an hour, that raises questions about their business model.

In a lot of industries, retail, private sector outsourcing etc the models do not allow for that kind of increase.

Now it is done it should be stable, but for some businesses a 15-20% increase in salaries just is not viable.

[rich1471]

£10 an hour would cripple most small and some large company's and the only thing that will happen is it will push up daily living expenses , in reality people will not be better off and it will put up unemployment and unskilled workers will struggle to find work if you have to pay £10 per hour

[SydneyRover]

This could be why workers can't get a pat rise bfyp?


 Workers pay the price for rising shareholder profits


https://corporate-responsibility.org/workers-pay-price-rising-shareholder-profits/

[Not Now Kato]

£10 an hour would cripple most small and some large company's and the only thing that will happen is it will push up daily living expenses , in reality people will not be better off and it will put up unemployment and unskilled workers will struggle to find work if you have to pay £10 per hour

If a company can't afford to pay £10 per hour then they have no right to be in business!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Rich/BFYP. Those are precisely the criticisms that were made when the minimum wage first came in. They've been debunked all over the world.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

£10 an hour would cripple most small and some large company's and the only thing that will happen is it will push up daily living expenses , in reality people will not be better off and it will put up unemployment and unskilled workers will struggle to find work if you have to pay £10 per hour

If a company can't afford to pay £10 per hour then they have no right to be in business!

Apply that acxross retail, what happens to the prices you pay?  It's the consumer who pays it, your options are fairly limited.

[SydneyRover]

Low wages reduces innovation and progress, more progress more efficient industry more jobs.

[Not Now Kato]

£10 an hour would cripple most small and some large company's and the only thing that will happen is it will push up daily living expenses , in reality people will not be better off and it will put up unemployment and unskilled workers will struggle to find work if you have to pay £10 per hour

If a company can't afford to pay £10 per hour then they have no right to be in business!

Apply that acxross retail, what happens to the prices you pay?  It's the consumer who pays it, your options are fairly limited.

If a company can't afford to pay £10 per hour then they have no right to be in business.  That's got sod all to do with the consumer paying.  If a business can't afford to pay £10 per hour then the business model is a failure and the owners shouldn't be in business.  It's stupid to suggest that owners/shareholders should benefit from low wages!  Owners/share holders should be out of business and get nothing if their business model can't support a £10 minimum wage.

[SydneyRover]

If you're are not on an hourly rate and your wages are not linked to minimum pay, any rises you get don't affect consumer prices, apparently 

[Axholme Lion]

£10 an hour would cripple most small and some large company's and the only thing that will happen is it will push up daily living expenses , in reality people will not be better off and it will put up unemployment and unskilled workers will struggle to find work if you have to pay £10 per hour

If a company can't afford to pay £10 per hour then they have no right to be in business!

Apply that acxross retail, what happens to the prices you pay?  It's the consumer who pays it, your options are fairly limited.

If a company can't afford to pay £10 per hour then they have no right to be in business.  That's got sod all to do with the consumer paying.  If a business can't afford to pay £10 per hour then the business model is a failure and the owners shouldn't be in business.  It's stupid to suggest that owners/shareholders should benefit from low wages!  Owners/share holders should be out of business and get nothing if their business model can't support a £10 minimum wage.

Are you on drugs? Where can I get one of these mythical jobs?

[Not Now Kato]

£10 an hour would cripple most small and some large company's and the only thing that will happen is it will push up daily living expenses , in reality people will not be better off and it will put up unemployment and unskilled workers will struggle to find work if you have to pay £10 per hour

If a company can't afford to pay £10 per hour then they have no right to be in business!

Apply that acxross retail, what happens to the prices you pay?  It's the consumer who pays it, your options are fairly limited.

If a company can't afford to pay £10 per hour then they have no right to be in business.  That's got sod all to do with the consumer paying.  If a business can't afford to pay £10 per hour then the business model is a failure and the owners shouldn't be in business.  It's stupid to suggest that owners/shareholders should benefit from low wages!  Owners/share holders should be out of business and get nothing if their business model can't support a £10 minimum wage.

Are you on drugs? Where can I get one of these mythical jobs?

Seems it's you that must be on drugs.  What mythical jobs are you referring to?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

If you're are not on an hourly rate and your wages are not linked to minimum pay, any rises you get don't affect consumer prices, apparently 

Well my salary wouldn't given that my salary is entirely not connected to any consumer process at all and that there's one of me doing the job in the company, a small change in my salary is so insignificant it doesn't register, 10% for a range of others is huge.  What you are demonstrating is a clear lack of knowledge as to how these things work and trying to inform someone who actually does this kind of stuff for a living that they don't do it, bizarre.