Daily briefing

[Bentley Bullet]

The party with most seats obviously wins the elections, but not having the popular vote may not be as democratic as we would hope, hence the call for proportional representation so the vote can be represented in the make up of the government, especially with so many parties standing nowadays.

But again, that is completely irrelevant to the point I made in post 71!

[IDM]

I disagree - not for the sake of disagreeing mind.

You brought up democracy and I pointed out flaws in the system.

That’s how discussion threads evolve isn’t it.?  Not just a series of yes/no contradictions and personal insults.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Our voting system is ludicrous.

Blair in 97 and Thatcher in 83 both got 100+ seat majorities and effectively untrammelled power with 57% of the vote going against them. That is utterly outrageous.

[Bentley Bullet]

Hang on, BB’s point about votes was following some points about opinions, correct.?

He then made the point about our democracy, and I replied that his statement is inaccurate in that if you add up the votes for the other parties all together, that is almost always more than the winning party got.

My point was, and is, to illustrate the flaws in our democratic system, usually we get a government which maybe 60% of folks who voted didn’t actually want..

I’m not disputing how our system works just to argue with BB, simply pointing out a different perspective..

Also, going back to opinions, if our opinions of politicians change and we want a different government we can eventually vote them out, flawed system or not..

Interesting point, democracy allowing a further vote to change what isn’t working..

But the rules, however wrong they are, are the same for all parties! My post referring to Iatellthepies comment (post 71) was nothing to do with that subject.

[IDM]

No your post was about democratic votes..

We’re taken that point further, I assume that’s ok with you.?

[selby]

  BB, I suppose when you haven't won an election in a generation, a referendum although that was a straight vote for vote count, and two elections where Brexit was the main topic, one you avidly disagreed with and lost the lot, then you would want proportional representation, just to feel relevant again, instead of just a noise.

[SydneyRover]

Democracy could be impoved with a better better voting system but it's unlikely to happen under conservatives as they well understand the disadvantage to them.

[Bentley Bullet]

No your post was about democratic votes..

We’re taken that point further, I assume that’s ok with you.?

We're taken that point further? Who's "we're?" My argument is with you. You admitted yourself that you were being pedantic, and just because you have had a bit of backing by the usual culprits who always oppose everything I say you appear now to be denying your confession!

[Bentley Bullet]

Democracy could be impoved with a better better voting system but it's unlikely to happen under conservatives as they well understand the disadvantage to them.

Why didn't Labour introduce it when they were in power?

[selby]

  This countries voting boundaries will be changed under the rules of population per constituency before the next general election, which is estimated to give the Tories an even bigger advantage of up to twenty more seats.

[drfchound]

This has to be the £25 argument.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Democracy could be impoved with a better better voting system but it's unlikely to happen under conservatives as they well understand the disadvantage to them.

Why didn't Labour introduce it when they were in power?

It was the most stupid mistake that Blair ever made, both for moral and political reasons.

Morally it's obviously the right thing to do.

Politically, well throughout the last 40 years there has been a centre-left majority in this country. If we had proper proportional representation, there would never again be a right wing Govt in this country.

Blair came very close to agreeing to bring in PR in 1997. But he bottled it because he thought it would weaken Labour's position at a time that they were very strong. It was an enormous strategic mistake.

[IDM]

This has to be the £25 argument.

No it isn’t, it’s just contradiction

[Ldr]

Democracy could be impoved with a better better voting system but it's unlikely to happen under conservatives as they well understand the disadvantage to them.

Why didn't Labour introduce it when they were in power?

It was the most stupid mistake that Blair ever made, both for moral and political reasons.

Morally it's obviously the right thing to do.

Politically, well throughout the last 40 years there has been a centre-left majority in this country. If we had proper proportional representation, there would never again be a right wing Govt in this country.

Blair came very close to agreeing to bring in PR in 1997. But he bottled it because he thought it would weaken Labour's position at a time that they were very strong. It was an enormous strategic mistake.

What's the stats behind there being a centre left majority out of interest?

[IDM]

No your post was about democratic votes..

We’re taken that point further, I assume that’s ok with you.?

We're taken that point further? Who's "we're?" My argument is with you. You admitted yourself that you were being pedantic, and just because you have had a bit of backing by the usual culprits who always oppose everything I say you appear now to be denying your confession!

I’m not denying being pedantic to make my point.  I have to be pedantic sometimes for the message to get across..

You seem to get offended when others offer a different point of view, with explanations, but you just don’t seem to accept that that can happen..

I know you know what I mean all along, you’re just being argumentative for the sake of it.

It is actually ok for folks to have different views, but hey, only as long as they agree with yours.?

I think you do it just to entertain yourself on the forum.  Each to their own.

I’ll be making more effort not to get drawn into things with you..

I can’t wait for the football to start again.

[Bentley Bullet]

Bullshit. You started the argument with me by being pedantic! The evidence is there for all to see! It was more a case that you knew exactly what I meant but chose to be pedantic!

[Iberian Red]

Back we go to our very own King of comedy,and King of put downs,BB aka David Brent.
He's gone into his NMA Stupid Questions mode again.
I'm sure there must be an off switch for it somewhere. He's going to implode arguing with himself soon.

[IDM]

Whatever BB - you just go on being 100% right 100% of the time.

The evidence is there for all to see.

Over and out

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

The LDs have presented themselves as a left-leaning centrist party since the 1980s. If you want evidence of that, just look at how their support collapsed in 2010 within weeks if going into coalition with the Tories.

The Greens are left of centre. So are the SNP. And so were the SDP in days gone by.

Here's the voting figures for the past 40 years.

1983. Lab + Alliance + Green + SNP 54.6%
1987. Lab + Alliance + Green + SNP 55.0%
1992. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 54.6%
1997. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 62.2%
2001. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 61.4%
2005. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 59.1%
2010. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 54.7%
2015. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 46.8%
2017. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 52.0%
2019. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 50.4%

So, OK, I forgot about 2015. That is the one and only election of that period in which a right-wing coalition (Con,UKIP,DUP) would have reached 50% of the vote (exactly 50.0% in that case).

It is clear that in almost every election in the past 40 years, the centrist party would have held the balance of power. And personally, I find it inconceivable that a centrist party led by Owen and Steel would have supported Thatcher. Or Ashdown & Kennedy would have supported IDS or Hague or Howard.

In a PR situation in 2010 there is no way on God's earth that Clegg would have enabled a Cameron Austerity Govt.

And here's the really big one. It is clear that in 2019, a majority voted for parties that would have blocked Brexit.

(By the way, the figures above don't include Plaid Cymru or the left-leaning Northern Ireland parties who would have typically added 1-2% to a centre-left vote total).

[Ldr]

Cheers fella

[Filo]

Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel

[BillyStubbsTears]

Thank God for that. I thought they'd lost her.

[Filo]

Thank God for that. I thought they'd lost her.

Obviously the ones that have been doing it have legged it to their second home for Easter

[Donnywolf]

Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel

Anybody going to ask the main question

A few weeks ago she said "those earning under 25000 quid a year are unskilled and unwanted here" (paraphrased). Lots of the NHS is / was staffed by many Nurses etc that fit into that category

Get BBC to ask if she has changed her mind

[drfchound]

Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel

Maybe Cummings reads the vsc forum.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel

Maybe Cummings reads the vsc forum.

That would explain some of the b*llocks he comes out with.

[drfchound]

Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel

Maybe Cummings reads the vsc forum.

That would explain some of the b*llocks he comes out with.

Very true BST.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Go back to the start of March for example. Cummings was the champion of us not having a lockdown. Just like some on here were poo-poohing it and saying that talk of a lockdown was a stupid over-reaction.

[Colemans Left Hook]

I see Gove is spending next week in discussions with the EU about Brexit details.

I'm literally lost for words.

e
you saw the line of "who takes over from who"   whilst  Borice is ill and unpreti Patel was even in front of him in the batting line up. So not a surprise.

[wilts rover]

I doubt we will see Gove for a couple of weeks. He is in self-isolation - his Mrs got the virus this week.