EFL season over

[NewDonny]

Thanks SM.

So that leads to the question, where’s NewDonny getting his/her 75% majority claim from.?

Sorry I am not looking for an argument here, but I am hearing it differently and that it's actually a requirement for them to have at least 75% of the votes to be able to agree on any type of proposal. With Bury gone the league has been reduced to 23 teams and with the six teams in favour of continuing gives them only 73.9% to finish the season now.

[firestarter]

I can see the temptation in MacAnthony's proposal but I wonder whether it's making a bit of a circus out of how to conclude the season.

So, if I've got this right, the top 2 are promoted whatever, and the next 8 play a 7 game mini league to determine either a) the third place promotion or b) to determine the next 4 who play off again to establish the 3rd promoted team??

1. How would this minii league be set up in terms of home or away? For eg, as we've played Ipswich away, then would we be guaranteed Ipswich at home?

2.Do we start this mini league from scratch or start from the points already accumulated??

3.You could go the other way and have a straight knock out depending on luck of the draw

Based on current league positions equalised on points per game

3rd v 10th
4th v 9th
5th v 8th
6th v 7th.

There's so many possible ways to complicate the situation even more but a straight knockout would limit the number of games left to play which surely has to be desirable given the Covid crisis.

Darragh MacAnthony is proposing this for 1 reason... and that reason is himself.

[The Red Baron]

Thanks SM.

So that leads to the question, where’s NewDonny getting his/her 75% majority claim from.?

Sorry I am not looking for an argument here, but I ham hearing it differently and that it's actually a requirement for them to have at least 75% of the votes to be able to agree on any type of proposal. With Bury gone the league has been reduced to 23 teams and with the six teams in favour of continuing gives them only 73.9% to finish the season now.

I think there's a hard deadline (set by UEFA) of 25th May for Leagues to decide whether they are going to resume or end the season as it stands.

Unless there are more clubs willing to play out the season than are prepared to go public, then what is really at stake is what to do with the play-offs.

[The Beast]

So with this proposed play off system, we could potentially win it and be playing in the Championship next season. Call me a damp squib and lacking ambition but that isn’t a prospect that really fills me with joy at this moment in time. Suppose we could just take the extra money but then contracts go up and you’re in fishy situation when/if you come down. Having said that if we’re not going to be in the stadiums while January who knows what the future holds.

[NewDonny]

I can see the temptation in MacAnthony's proposal but I wonder whether it's making a bit of a circus out of how to conclude the season.

So, if I've got this right, the top 2 are promoted whatever, and the next 8 play a 7 game mini league to determine either a) the third place promotion or b) to determine the next 4 who play off again to establish the 3rd promoted team??

1. How would this minii league be set up in terms of home or away? For eg, as we've played Ipswich away, then would we be guaranteed Ipswich at home?

2.Do we start this mini league from scratch or start from the points already accumulated??

3.You could go the other way and have a straight knock out depending on luck of the draw

Based on current league positions equalised on points per game

3rd v 10th
4th v 9th
5th v 8th
6th v 7th.

There's so many possible ways to complicate the situation even more but a straight knockout would limit the number of games left to play which surely has to be desirable given the Covid crisis.

I really have no idea why people are debating this, MacAnthony's suggested ideas are self fulfilling and are a country mile wide of the current competition rules around the payoffs so I seriously doubt they have got any legs whatsoever.

That's a non-argument.

We are in an entirely unprecedented situation. ANY outcome is going to be one that requires competition rules to be re-written.

If you disagree with the proposals, by all means do so, but do it on their merits. Not on the basis of this non-argument.

Look I am not getting into an argument with you on here again BST, if you disagree with my opinion that's fine and I respect that, but please don't then condesend to tell me how I should or shouldn't be laying out my arguments.

I am well aware of the circumstances that have brought us to this junction in this season leagues's proceedings, just as I am well aware, probably more so than most on here, that whatever decision is reached, not all 23 clubs in the league will be happy with the final outcome. But wholesale changes to the existing rules and structure just to appease what amounts to a small number of clubs isn't right either.

Whether fair or unfair, right or wrong, the most sensible solution is to draw a halt to the season now. With 80% of this seasons fixtures already completed, there is enough home and away form there for a PPG formula to be used to agree the final league places, promotions and relegations. Teams can then re-group, save money, restructure their finances and start planning for next season.

I know some on here don't agree with my simple approach but equally, restarting the league now, having had nearly a two month break will also not be fair based on the fact that there is no guarantee that form sides will pick up where they left off. In fact I confidently predict that any sort of 8-10 team play off will throw up some very different results than had the season continued normally. The players themselves will need at least 6 weeks to get back to fitness and then it won't be match fitness.

The other concern for me is that agreeing to McAnthonys self fulfilling proposals will have a significant impact on next season in terms of start date, player recruitment & contracts and above all a clubs finances & Sponsorship. For me it's better that this season is finished at Mondays second meeting for players and clubs to take a break from it all and then come back when its safe to do so and hopefully the game will start also to attract sponsorship which in itself is going to be very hard now anyway.

This is my opinion!
 

[Filo]

I can see the temptation in MacAnthony's proposal but I wonder whether it's making a bit of a circus out of how to conclude the season.

So, if I've got this right, the top 2 are promoted whatever, and the next 8 play a 7 game mini league to determine either a) the third place promotion or b) to determine the next 4 who play off again to establish the 3rd promoted team??

1. How would this minii league be set up in terms of home or away? For eg, as we've played Ipswich away, then would we be guaranteed Ipswich at home?

2.Do we start this mini league from scratch or start from the points already accumulated??

3.You could go the other way and have a straight knock out depending on luck of the draw

Based on current league positions equalised on points per game

3rd v 10th
4th v 9th
5th v 8th
6th v 7th.

There's so many possible ways to complicate the situation even more but a straight knockout would limit the number of games left to play which surely has to be desirable given the Covid crisis.

I really have no idea why people are debating this, MacAnthony's suggested ideas are self fulfilling and are a country mile wide of the current competition rules around the payoffs so I seriously doubt they have got any legs whatsoever.

That's a non-argument.

We are in an entirely unprecedented situation. ANY outcome is going to be one that requires competition rules to be re-written.

If you disagree with the proposals, by all means do so, but do it on their merits. Not on the basis of this non-argument.

Look I am not getting into an argument with you on here again BST, if you disagree with my opinion that's fine and I respect that, but please don't then condesend to tell me how I should or shouldn't be laying out my arguments.

I am well aware of the circumstances that have brought us to this junction in this season leagues's proceedings, just as I am well aware, probably more so than most on here, that whatever decision is reached, not all 23 clubs in the league will be happy with the final outcome. But wholesale changes to the existing rules and structure just to appease what amounts to a small number of clubs isn't right either.

Whether fair or unfair, right or wrong, the most sensible solution is to draw a halt to the season now. With 80% of this seasons fixtures already completed, there is enough home and away form there for a PPG formula to be used to agree the final league places, promotions and relegations. Teams can then re-group, save money, restructure their finances and start planning for next season.

I know some on here don't agree with my simple approach but equally, restarting the league now, having had nearly a two month break will also not be fair based on the fact that there is no guarantee that form sides will pick up where they left off. In fact I confidently predict that any sort of 8-10 team play off will throw up some very different results than had the season continued normally. The players them selves will need at least 6 weeks to get back to fitness and ten it won't be match fitness.

The other concern for me is that agreeing to McAnthonys self fulfilling proposals will also have a significant impact on next season in terms of start date, player recruitment & contracts and above all a clubs finances & Sponsorship. For me it's better that this season is finished at Mondays meeting for players and clubs to take a break from it all and then come back when its safe to do so and hopefully the gamete start also to attract sponsorship which in itself is going to be very hard now anyway.

This is my opinion!
 

Why is that then, and how do you come to that opinion?

Thats the words in bold by the way

[ravenrover]

People saying D Mc in it for himself with his suggestions, just sit back take a breath and consider if JR was still in charge and we were in Posh position what would he be saying?

[Draytonian III]

I think it should be PPG , but and it’s a very big but if they do have a play off system put in who do want to go up ?
Oxford or Wycombe (depending on PPG ) ?
Fleetwood - d**khead manager ?
Peterborough - d**khead chairman ?
Sunderland - d**kheads living in the past ?
Ipswich - as above ?
Pompey - d**khead with a bell ?

[IDM]

Thanks SM.

So that leads to the question, where’s NewDonny getting his/her 75% majority claim from.?

Sorry I am not looking for an argument here, but I ham hearing it differently and that it's actually a requirement for them to have at least 75% of the votes to be able to agree on any type of proposal. With Bury gone the league has been reduced to 23 teams and with the six teams in favour of continuing gives them only 73.9% to finish the season now.

I’m not looking for an argument either, it is a simple question:

Where do you get the 75% majority thing from.?

How you interpret that question as looking for an argument is beyond me.

However it is well known that SM has an involvement with the football authorities and therefore his saying that a simple majority is required should be the default setting - unless of course you can justify why you say 75% majority..

It’s a simple request, not an argument.  But if you can’t answer then your opinion is tarnished, to say the least.

[drfchound]

I think it should be PPG , but and it’s a very big but if they do have a play off system put in who do want to go up ?
Oxford or Wycombe (depending on PPG ) ?
Fleetwood - d**khead manager ?
Peterborough - d**khead chairman ?
Sunderland - d**kheads living in the past ?
Ipswich - as above ?
Pompey - d**khead with a bell ?

Oxford.
They were the best of that bunch and they would be out of the way for next season.

[IDM]

If ppg is used to concoct a season finish, there’s no point in having play offs - just promote the 3rd “best” team.

If there’s an argument that some football should be played, and is safe to do so, then all football should be played.

If ppg is used, which I think flies in the face of sporting integrity in this game, then it’s good enough for the play offs too.

[selby]

  The 50% +1 I posted was taken off the EFL statement on the BBC website when the question of votes was asked earlier in the thread and on the radio New Donny.
    I have never heard 75% mentioned on any discussion of this matter, just a simple majority as SM says.
  If the league can be decided by a playoff system and TV coverage can be sold to be split equally between all members of the division and whether it includes ourselves or not  I am all for it but would prefer all the games completed, but the cost of that scenario has been ruled out because of the cost to clubs, and would not attract TV coverage whereas a play off system probably would.
 

[IDM]

Interesting line from the UEFA president:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52698017

“ Cerefin said leagues which do not complete the season "will still have to play qualifiers if they want to participate in Uefa competition" next season.

He added: "Only sporting reasons can be the formula for qualifying for the Champions League and Europa League."...”

If sporting reasons are good enough for UEFA, then why not for league one.!

[silent majority]

Thanks SM.

So that leads to the question, where’s NewDonny getting his/her 75% majority claim from.?

Sorry I am not looking for an argument here, but I ham hearing it differently and that it's actually a requirement for them to have at least 75% of the votes to be able to agree on any type of proposal. With Bury gone the league has been reduced to 23 teams and with the six teams in favour of continuing gives them only 73.9% to finish the season now.

No, it's a simple majority. Horses mouth.

[silent majority]

Interesting line from the UEFA president:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52698017

“ Cerefin said leagues which do not complete the season "will still have to play qualifiers if they want to participate in Uefa competition" next season.

He added: "Only sporting reasons can be the formula for qualifying for the Champions League and Europa League."...”

If sporting reasons are good enough for UEFA, then why not for league one.!

It's sporting integrity as I've mentioned on here before. It's one of the main driving forces for finishing the season. To qualify for next seasons Champions league you must compete, clubs cannot be nominated by their association..

Doesn't apply to LG1 obviously.

[silent majority]

Thanks SM.

So that leads to the question, where’s NewDonny getting his/her 75% majority claim from.?

Sorry I am not looking for an argument here, but I ham hearing it differently and that it's actually a requirement for them to have at least 75% of the votes to be able to agree on any type of proposal. With Bury gone the league has been reduced to 23 teams and with the six teams in favour of continuing gives them only 73.9% to finish the season now.

I think there's a hard deadline (set by UEFA) of 25th May for Leagues to decide whether they are going to resume or end the season as it stands.

Unless there are more clubs willing to play out the season than are prepared to go public, then what is really at stake is what to do with the play-offs.

Yes that s right John, 25th May for associations to define their plans for completion.

3rd August for CL teams to be decided.

[Chris Black come back]

Looking at the current play off teams, given size of Portsmouth and potentially some extra Marquis cash if they go up, we should be backing whatever they want to happen. Getting rid of them should mean a weaker League One next season, given their resources.

[RoversAlias]

In terms of that "integrity" thing for the Champions League, does PPG not count in that sense? Club Brugge and PSG have been formally declared champions in Belgium and France, and I've seen nothing suggesting they won't be granted the respective Champions League places as a result.

Reality is, "sporting integrity" isn't the only consideration to finishing the season at our level. Clubs' capability to survive past this crisis is much more in question than it is for those at the top level and so if forcing teams to play the games out jeopardises them as an existing entity, then it surely isn't worth it.

[selby]

  Don't discount us being good enough to get up if we are included, ,at our best we are as good as any of them, it would be a new competition where every team starts from scratch not like the normal play offs, a team that was the best two months ago could be nowhere as good on a restart.

[selby]

  Somebody on this forum pointed out the truth about sporting integrity in football a couple of weeks ago " they wouldn't know the meaning of it if it jumped up and smacked them in the face"

[silent majority]

In terms of that "integrity" thing for the Champions League, does PPG not count in that sense? Club Brugge and PSG have been formally declared champions in Belgium and France, and I've seen nothing suggesting they won't be granted the respective Champions League places as a result.

Reality is, "sporting integrity" isn't the only consideration to finishing the season at our level. Clubs' capability to survive past this crisis is much more in question than it is for those at the top level and so if forcing teams to play the games out jeopardises them as an existing entity, then it surely isn't worth it.

Yes it does count. All associations need a resolution to their season based on sporting integrity, if that needs a formula then so be it.

What it rules out is seasons being classed as null and void. If that was to happen then they wouldn't be allocated places for the CL.

At our level, as you point out, its more to do with survival than finishing the season. Partaking in a play off will not be cheap, and might yet not be possible. The amount of testing required would rule this out on cost grounds. The EPL is different as the broadcasters got behind Operation Restart, we don't have that luxury.

[NewDonny]

Thanks SM.

So that leads to the question, where’s NewDonny getting his/her 75% majority claim from.?

Sorry I am not looking for an argument here, but I ham hearing it differently and that it's actually a requirement for them to have at least 75% of the votes to be able to agree on any type of proposal. With Bury gone the league has been reduced to 23 teams and with the six teams in favour of continuing gives them only 73.9% to finish the season now.

I’m not looking for an argument either, it is a simple question:

Where do you get the 75% majority thing from.?

How you interpret that question as looking for an argument is beyond me.

However it is well known that SM has an involvement with the football authorities and therefore his saying that a simple majority is required should be the default setting - unless of course you can justify why you say 75% majority..

It’s a simple request, not an argument.  But if you can’t answer then your opinion is tarnished, to say the least.

Tarnished? Thank you for that!

Look IDM, you have been on my back for a few days now. I am not doubting SM's involvement with the football authorities, but why is it impossible for you to believe that I too may have connections in the game too? Beyond that I am not prepared to say anymore.

The majority of clubs across Leagues 1 & 2 cannot now afford for the season to be finished off, they just don't have the money to be able to do that. They have little or no income streams and without fans attending home games the cost of holding games, travelling to away games, staying overnight where needed plus having pay staff, which includes losing furlough as an option to pay people, that option is beyond the majority of them now.

[NewDonny]

Thanks SM.

So that leads to the question, where’s NewDonny getting his/her 75% majority claim from.?

Sorry I am not looking for an argument here, but I ham hearing it differently and that it's actually a requirement for them to have at least 75% of the votes to be able to agree on any type of proposal. With Bury gone the league has been reduced to 23 teams and with the six teams in favour of continuing gives them only 73.9% to finish the season now.

No, it's a simple majority. Horses mouth.

Then we are clearly talking to two different horses then SM.

Rick Parry's interview attached from 6th May 2020 with two National Newspapers.

EFL chairman Rick Parry

Although the EFL have continued to outline their wish to finish the 2019/20 campaign, reports claim that the issue of ending the season below the Championship will be discussed next week.

It’s believed a vote will then be held over conference call with all clubs in League One and League Two taking part

The vote would not involve clubs in the Championship, as the EFL expects to conclude the season in full.

The vote would need a 75 per cent majority to pass through and decisions would then have to be made on how to conclude promotions and relegations across the leagues.

Speaking to the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport select committee on Tuesday, EFL chairman Rick Parry warned that decisions will have to be made sooner rather than later.

“Our end date, realistically, is July 31 because of the situation with player contracts,” he said.

“Players have been furloughed, staff have been furloughed. To ask clubs to bring their staff back into training now only to find in a month they cannot play would be a complete mess.

“We need within days to be taking decisions. We need guidance on the criteria to return to play and we need that very quickly. We can’t delay decisions. Players have to be back in training pretty soon. Critical days are coming up for us."

[IDM]

Then you need to be open about which horse you are backing, even if you can’t name names, that’s not what I am asking.

I’m not on your back, I’m interested to know a bit more about where you are coming from, that’s all, so that I can a) understand it better and b) draw my own conclusions.

I don’t doubt you may have some kind of contact within the game, but it would help us to understand you more if you were to be a bit more open.

Take SM for example, we know his name, we know he has a role on the FSF (or whatever it is called) and gets involved with what’s going on at DRFC.  All that is known, so when SM says he has knowledge of something but can’t get to public, that tends to be believed. 

But when others claim to be in the know yet offer no evidence of such, then yes, your argument is tarnished.

No one is asking you to name names or to betray confidences, but you could perhaps be a bit more explicit, please.?

[IDM]

I see you amended your post whilst I was writing mine.  You’ve quoted from a newspaper.?  Which one(s).?

So your source is someone inside football, or newspapers.?  If I read your post how it is presented, it looks like the newspaper column makes the statement about 75%, not Rick Parry?

I’m not having a pop, I’m just confused.

[Frankie Rennie]

From a Bolton perspective, we’re probably going down whatever way the seasons finished but from a purely selfish point of view I hope McAnthonys play off system is voted through because the sheer cost to clubs like Donny and other smaller clubs will be crippling. L2 clubs showed sense cancelling the season now and it’s only pure greed and self interest from the McAnthonys of this world that are leading to L1 clubs not doing the same. By far the cheapest, easiest and most sensible decision is cancel now and save clubs money they don’t have and let everybody plan for when the game can return safely and with fans. Sadly I don’t think they’ll do that and will have to learn the hard way. We won’t have any additional costs which means we can invest our money in players to make a quick return without points penalties.

[selby]

FR, if you don't strengthen you will be a poor side in division 2, and you need to clear your debts from this season.

[Spilsby Red]

I am for finishing the season now. We all love our football as other fans do. I as a nurse don’t seem to get that players can be checked regular when front line can’t. Football will survive, a lot of people haven’t since the pandemic hit our shores. A lot more might not. Let’s put things in perspective

[Draytonian III]

Difference with us and Bolton is that we live within our means , our owners are local ,not in it for the money

[karldew]

Not sure on the timescale for a pitch to be ready but I’ve seen that Bristol rovers have starting digging the pitch up ready for a new one. Do they know something we don’t?