George Floyd protests

[roversdude]

As has always been the case there are groups who are little more than anarchists attaching themselves to genuine protests. I remember back in my mining days, every time there was a sniff of industrial unrest there were groups of “socialist workers” swarming about all over stirring things up.

[keyser_soze]

Black Lives Matter = Save The Rainforests.

Doesn't mean at the expense of all other forests.

[Not Now Kato]

Black Lives Matter = Save The Rainforests.

Doesn't mean at the expense of all other forests.

Spot on.
 
That logic can apply to so many things, if only people thought about it and acted 'grown up'. 

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

As has always been the case there are groups who are little more than anarchists attaching themselves to genuine protests. I remember back in my mining days, every time there was a sniff of industrial unrest there were groups of “socialist workers” swarming about all over stirring things up.

Absolutely and they are a significant and damaging part of society.  There is 100% a point to these demonstrations, we are ahead of a number of countries on racial equality here, but still nowhere near good enough.   The cause and effect aspect of that though is hugely complicated.

There is though perfect reason in agreeing and supporting the cause and protest but also being critical of 1. the lack of social distancing and 2. the violence, graffiti and damaged caused by a minority.

In my line of work I'd come across very few black people and certainly recruiting black candidates would be few/non existant in number, with one exception who worked in my team (originally Somalian and grew up and studied abroad originally).  That is not as such a racist thing, it's not because I wouldn't employ a black candidate but because there aren't the candidates there to present the opportunity.  That may well be the choice of black people but more than likely it's the lack of opportunity they have to get at that level, again a complex issue.  As a society we should do more to give these youngsters the opportunity to be successful, just as we should any youngsters who start life in a less privileged position.

[SydneyRover]

If all people in the UK were equal with equal opportunity you would/should see about 12% of any workforce being BAME.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

If all people in the UK were equal with equal opportunity you would/should see about 12% of any workforce being BAME.

Not quite, the last census (very outdated now) had this sort of split for Doncaster;

The working age population for BME groups in Doncaster is 8.8% compared to the
National Average of 21.5%.

My point would not necessarily be about proportion of workforce but the work they actually do.  You'll see much more BAME persons at the lower end of the employment spectrum and that should be something that can be changed.  Granted it doesn't fit in all areas and there are some areas where you cannot make it equal eg physical attributes, but in the case of mental ability and strength it is thought there is no scientific link between intelligence and race, thus it must be a social and societal issue.

[ravenrover]

We were only talking this morning how very few black people we could remember in Donny when we lived there 40years ago nor in Notts were we are now and several other places in between. Plenty of of Asian but very few black people. Has that situation changed in Donny?

[Not Now Kato]

We were only talking this morning how very few black people we could remember in Donny when we lived there 40years ago nor in Notts were we are now and several other places in between. Plenty of of Asian but very few black people. Has that situation changed in Donny?

I well remember taking a visiting West Indian colleague into Barnburgh Working Man's Club for a beer back around then.  The whole place just fell silent when we walked in!

[scawsby steve]

I suppose my situation is not the norm, but where I grew up, Bentley West End, there was in the 1960s and 70s a significant influx of West Indian families to the area.

Many of them worked at Bentley Pit, where a lot of them became my mates.

[wilts rover]

I can't imagine Doncaster is any better or any worse then most towns of its size in the country.

However on the football side of things there is more to be proud of as regards racial integration than many other places in the country. We had Charlie Williams in the 1950's and one of the few black mangers in the country today.

[Nudga]

I wonder why the murders, brutality, and beatings aren't being sensored on social media but supposed mis-information of Covid-19 are because its deemed as dangerous?

Keep your eyes peeled people.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The political motives of the group black lives matter UK are actually serious and require close attention.

[SydneyRover]

Australia for a relatively young country has it's own race problems too

NSW police pursue 80% of Indigenous people caught with cannabis through courts

Exclusive: data shows hugely disproportionate treatment, which experts say helps trap young Aboriginal people in the criminal justice system

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jun/10/nsw-police-pursue-80-of-indigenous-people-caught-with-cannabis-through-courts

Aboriginal drivers in WA more likely to get fines from police officers than traffic cameras
 
Exclusive: Indigenous people are fined more than average by police officers but less than average by traffic cameras

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/feb/05/aboriginal-drivers-in-wa-more-likely-to-get-fines-from-police-officers-than-traffic-cameras

[SydneyRover]

I learned about William Wilberforce at school but I wasn't taught about this

The black British history you may not know about

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-52939694

[kentrover]

All, I love reading this forum but I think I've only posted once or twice in 12 years. But this thread got me going. There's 3 things I wanted to say.

1. I remember my youngest son at about 8 (now 21) describing how he'd been invited to a school mate's birthday party. i asked him who it was and where he lived cos I'd never heard of him. Ok. He's got curly hair, green eyes, a bit taller and slimmer than me...Oh, I said, that new black kid who's just joined. He said dad I didn't think you could say that. But he was pretty genuinely clour-blind and didn't use the most defining characteristic to describe him.

2. Wind on 13 years at University and my elder son lived in Bristol with two white guys and three white girls, and one one black guy. They all got pissed and misbehaved apparently, but who was the only one who got stopped and lifted by the the police 18 times in one year? Yep. Met him and he's a lovely bloke.

3. The thing about statues. I'm undecided. I think you should maybe remove the overtly commercial-opportunity  ones (and don't know why they would erect one in the first place eg Colston) but attacking Churchill or Rhodes in my mind is ridiculous. They were men of their time, and you can't impose retrospective values on their actions unless you agree to give up the benefits of those. And how do you calculate that?

William the Conqueror killed an estimated 1m in the Harrying of the North, Queen Mary burned 1000s of Protestants during her reign - should we shut down pubs bearing their name? Where do start? Or end?

[SydneyRover]

Welcome KR you've provided a shed load for further dabate.

[drfchound]

All, I love reading this forum but I think I've only posted once or twice in 12 years. But this thread got me going. There's 3 things I wanted to say.

1. I remember my youngest son at about 8 (now 21) describing how he'd been invited to a school mate's birthday party. i asked him who it was and where he lived cos I'd never heard of him. Ok. He's got curly hair, green eyes, a bit taller and slimmer than me...Oh, I said, that new black kid who's just joined. He said dad I didn't think you could say that. But he was pretty genuinely clour-blind and didn't use the most defining characteristic to describe him.

2. Wind on 13 years at University and my elder son lived in Bristol with two white guys and three white girls, and one one black guy. They all got pissed and misbehaved apparently, but who was the only one who got stopped and lifted by the the police 18 times in one year? Yep. Met him and he's a lovely bloke.

3. The thing about statues. I'm undecided. I think you should maybe remove the overtly commercial-opportunity  ones (and don't know why they would erect one in the first place eg Colston) but attacking Churchill or Rhodes in my mind is ridiculous. They were men of their time, and you can't impose retrospective values on their actions unless you agree to give up the benefits of those. And how do you calculate that?

William the Conqueror killed an estimated 1m in the Harrying of the North, Queen Mary burned 1000s of Protestants during her reign - should we shut down pubs bearing their name? Where do start? Or end?

A good post KentRover.
Hindsight rears it head all the time.

[idler]

A few years ago one of my grandsons used to go to football training on a Saturday. They always finished with five a side and on the way home one day he was telling me how good one lad was.
When I asked which one he meant he said he was up front a lot of the time. Which one?  He had a Barcelona kit on. Yes but which one? He was the right tall lad.
I then realised that he meant a lad who looked of Caribbean heritage.
Any one my age would have just said at the start " The black lad".
Not as a derogatory term but just as the easiest way to describe him, just we might have said, skinny,fat,small,tall,blonde,ginger or curly.
A lot of the time it is the way a word is used rather than the word itself.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I couldn't agree more with that post Idler, especially your final sentence.

Circumstances and expectations change with time and I can't have with people who try to set standards of perfection on this theme. There was a black comedian a few years ago who had a right old go at the image that Charlie Williams had portrayed back in the 1960s and 70s. He said he was an Uncle Tom who had debased himself and other black people by playing up to stereotypes.

It might well look that way looking back half a century, but Williams lived in a very different society. What he did was to humanise black people in the eyes of whites. To get many white people thinking for the first time, "You know what, black people are this alien race, they laugh at things like I do." It was a step along the way. And times change.

If Williams came back today and told that story about how, on his first day at school, four lads came running up to him and he panicked that they were going to beat him up...but they just wanted to lick him because they thought he was made of chocolate, it would be excruciatingly embarrassing, because a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then. Williams made that joke in a context where very, very few white people ever did have any contact with black people. And that story gave a subtle message of "I am actually human, just like you" as well as making people laugh on a subject that usually raised temperatures and gently suggesting that white people examine their opinions. But today, it couldn't work. Because the idea that white people might naively not realise that blacks were sophisticated humans like them is ridiculous.

It is ALWAYS about context. And pretty much always about power structures. Who is the one who is in a position of power over someone else and behaving nastily - THEY are ripe for being taken on aggressively, but if you use the same approach to someone who is at a disadvantage, you are just piling on. It's why the GGM "going out for an English" sketch wasn't "racist" in a pejorative way. They weren't jibing at the English as a whole. They were poking fun at a specific sub-culture that needed pricking. Totally different to the Bernard Manning "So this Paki walked into the dole office..." type joke.

[i_ateallthepies]

He could laugh at himself as well could Charlie.  One of his put-downs when faced with a persistent heckler in his standup days was 'If tha dunt shut up I'll come and live next to yer'.

[auckleyflyer]

He feking had to laugh at himself to earn money. If he'd have taken offence or had a go back he'd be either sacked and broke or lynched and dead. Ffs

[kentrover]

Welcome KR you've provided a shed load for further dabate.

Thanks SR for the welcome, been following this stuff for a while

[kentrover]

He could laugh at himself as well could Charlie.  One of his put-downs when faced with a persistent heckler in his standup days was 'If tha dunt shut up I'll come and live next to yer'.

My mum and dad went to see him at the Batley Variety Club (maybe late 70s?) and that was the only line she remembered. Said it was hilarious though

[i_ateallthepies]

He feking had to laugh at himself to earn money. If he'd have taken offence or had a go back he'd be either sacked and broke or lynched and dead. Ffs

Not sure what upset you about my post aukleyflyer.

[kentrover]

A few years ago one of my grandsons used to go to football training on a Saturday. They always finished with five a side and on the way home one day he was telling me how good one lad was.
When I asked which one he meant he said he was up front a lot of the time. Which one?  He had a Barcelona kit on. Yes but which one? He was the right tall lad.
I then realised that he meant a lad who looked of Caribbean heritage.
Any one my age would have just said at the start " The black lad".
Not as a derogatory term but just as the easiest way to describe him, just we might have said, skinny,fat,small,tall,blonde,ginger or curly.
A lot of the time it is the way a word is used rather than the word itself.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Posted without comment. You can decide for yourselves which side of history you want to be on.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DanielNewman/status/1283681572433141760

[Hounslowrover]

Unbelievable!

[BillyStubbsTears]

And again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53636098

[MachoMadness]

But yeah, the REAL issue is obviously people choosing to kneel...

[BillyStubbsTears]

But yeah, the REAL issue is obviously people choosing to kneel...

It reminds me of the British forces using photos of Corbyn in a firing range exercise.

I thought a key feature of the armed forces of a democracy was that they were supposed to be apolitical?