JCH

[Chris Black come back]

In his ten season as a pro he has made 40 league games in a season only twice.

[jm291]

Not a fan of Peterborough at all, but you have to hand it to them in how they spot gems and sell them on for big bucks. They had loads of the years.

[drfchound]

Not so long ago there were people on here scoffing the thought that Peterbro would get anywhere near the £6m that they were hoping for for Toney.

[GazLaz]

Brentford have all their chips on player development. If that fails, they are in big trouble as their income otherwise is one of very lowest in the Championship and they pay pretty much the lowest wages in that league. As an example, in 18/19 they had same wage bill as Millwall. Even with those low wages they have wages at 125pc of income. So it just needs their transfer machine to fail once and they are in trouble.

Yes they are getting a new stadium that might alter the underlying income position, but it is only marginally bigger than Keepmoat (15k vs 17k). Being a London club helps attract players as well.

But, they are a club built on risk. They seem to have a decent model identifying and building up players but that is inherently risky (if they were certs, they would not be at Brentford) and you can only ride your luck for so long.

They are not riding their luck I know that.

Regarding what they spend on wages, they budget to the assets they have on their balance sheet, there is no risk in doing that.

[idler]

Burnley, Wimbledon and Crewe all had a few good seasons of unearthing and then selling talent. The thing is to be ready when it stops. I do think that the Covid crisis has hit our plan that was moving forward last season.

[tyke1962]

Isn't football by definition a risk and reward business for everyone .

Every player you sign or let go  produces risk , it's the nature of the beast .

Every clubs strategy carries risk the only difference is the way you go about it .

[RoversAlias]

I honestly don't think JCH is in the same class as Toney. Not that it's easy to find a replacement for a player so good. I have little doubt that Toney will succeed at a higher level but if Posh went up, JCH probably would outlive his usefulness to them at that point.

[drfchound]

I agree with you on the Toney observation RA.
I have rated him highly for the last couple of years and I too expect him to make an impact in the Championship.
JCH might just be a late developer, it does happen.
If he does help Peterbro to get promotion and then has to move on though he will have done his job and also raised his profile.

[RoversAlias]

Very fair that Hound.

[steve@dcfd]

Brentford have agreed a £10m fee with Peterborough for Toney. We will see if he can do at the higher level. So Peterborough spend money on players and contracts then sell Toney to get their money back.

The thing I’ve just seen on Sky Sports news JCH went to Peterborough on a 4 year contract. So if they get Promotion will he step up he’s not really done it before in the Championship.

[dickos1]

If you can trust your scouts and management then I don’t see any problem in spending significant fees, if you’re confident that you will make money eventually.
We did it once with sharp and Baldwin can out and said that if the deal makes sound business sense then we would do it, we’ve not done that again since really.
Maybe whiteman when we gave him a new deal cause we know one day we will make money on him.
But players like kane, dieng, Wilks, these are players we could’ve spent money on knowing that in time we will make money on them

[idler]

All of those players have since gone to teams in higher divisions though dickos. Maybe if we were one division higher they would come here but ambition will surely drive them to want or need a bigger challenge?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

If you can trust your scouts and management then I don’t see any problem in spending significant fees, if you’re confident that you will make money eventually.
We did it once with sharp and Baldwin can out and said that if the deal makes sound business sense then we would do it, we’ve not done that again since really.
Maybe whiteman when we gave him a new deal cause we know one day we will make money on him.
But players like kane, dieng, Wilks, these are players we could’ve spent money on knowing that in time we will make money on them

I get the theory and it's good business but to take those gambles you also have to be prepared to lose. You need a significant amount of money to raise those stakes and we won't gamble to that degree.

Had we have achieved promotion then Herbie, Wilks, Dieng may have been on the radar although just a personal view, I don't think Wilks was worth the gamble.

[vaya]

If you can trust your scouts and management then I don’t see any problem in spending significant fees, if you’re confident that you will make money eventually.
We did it once with sharp and Baldwin can out and said that if the deal makes sound business sense then we would do it, we’ve not done that again since really.
Maybe whiteman when we gave him a new deal cause we know one day we will make money on him.
But players like kane, dieng, Wilks, these are players we could’ve spent money on knowing that in time we will make money on them

I get the theory and it's good business but to take those gambles you also have to be prepared to lose. You need a significant amount of money to raise those stakes and we won't gamble to that degree.

Had we have achieved promotion then Herbie, Wilks, Dieng may have been on the radar although just a personal view, I don't think Wilks was worth the gamble.

Barnsley didn't seem to think he was worth the gamble.

[EasyforDennis]

If you can trust your scouts and management then I don’t see any problem in spending significant fees, if you’re confident that you will make money eventually.
We did it once with sharp and Baldwin can out and said that if the deal makes sound business sense then we would do it, we’ve not done that again since really.
Maybe whiteman when we gave him a new deal cause we know one day we will make money on him.
But players like kane, dieng, Wilks, these are players we could’ve spent money on knowing that in time we will make money on them

I get the theory and it's good business but to take those gambles you also have to be prepared to lose. You need a significant amount of money to raise those stakes and we won't gamble to that degree.

Had we have achieved promotion then Herbie, Wilks, Dieng may have been on the radar although just a personal view, I don't think Wilks was worth the gamble.

Barnsley didn't seem to think he was worth the gamble.

But we don't know how much we was asking for him.

[dickos1]

All of those players have since gone to teams in higher divisions though dickos. Maybe if we were one division higher they would come here but ambition will surely drive them to want or need a bigger challenge?

Kane and dieng haven’t gone anywhere yet, and Wilks is with us in league one now.
Mccann had agreed a deal for Wilks according to him but wasn’t backed to make it happen.

[dickos1]

If you can trust your scouts and management then I don’t see any problem in spending significant fees, if you’re confident that you will make money eventually.
We did it once with sharp and Baldwin can out and said that if the deal makes sound business sense then we would do it, we’ve not done that again since really.
Maybe whiteman when we gave him a new deal cause we know one day we will make money on him.
But players like kane, dieng, Wilks, these are players we could’ve spent money on knowing that in time we will make money on them

I get the theory and it's good business but to take those gambles you also have to be prepared to lose. You need a significant amount of money to raise those stakes and we won't gamble to that degree.

Had we have achieved promotion then Herbie, Wilks, Dieng may have been on the radar although just a personal view, I don't think Wilks was worth the gamble.

Barnsley didn't seem to think he was worth the gamble.

The New manager didn’t rate him,
It happens,
Hull obviously did think he was worth the gamble.

The point is over the last 2/3 years we’ve reduced our squad quite significantly And are making it up with short term deals.
In my opinion we are going to struggle to build any future with a squad full of short term deals where each year we have to rebuild our squad

[vaya]

If you can trust your scouts and management then I don’t see any problem in spending significant fees, if you’re confident that you will make money eventually.
We did it once with sharp and Baldwin can out and said that if the deal makes sound business sense then we would do it, we’ve not done that again since really.
Maybe whiteman when we gave him a new deal cause we know one day we will make money on him.
But players like kane, dieng, Wilks, these are players we could’ve spent money on knowing that in time we will make money on them

I get the theory and it's good business but to take those gambles you also have to be prepared to lose. You need a significant amount of money to raise those stakes and we won't gamble to that degree.

Had we have achieved promotion then Herbie, Wilks, Dieng may have been on the radar although just a personal view, I don't think Wilks was worth the gamble.

Barnsley didn't seem to think he was worth the gamble.

The New manager didn’t rate him,
It happens,
Hull obviously did think he was worth the gamble.

The point is over the last 2/3 years we’ve reduced our squad quite significantly And are making it up with short term deals.
In my opinion we are going to struggle to build any future with a squad full of short term deals where each year we have to rebuild our squad

Thanks. I think you've touched on this before.

[dickos1]

You must have a good memory,

[DonnyBazR0ver]

If you can trust your scouts and management then I don’t see any problem in spending significant fees, if you’re confident that you will make money eventually.
We did it once with sharp and Baldwin can out and said that if the deal makes sound business sense then we would do it, we’ve not done that again since really.
Maybe whiteman when we gave him a new deal cause we know one day we will make money on him.
But players like kane, dieng, Wilks, these are players we could’ve spent money on knowing that in time we will make money on them

I get the theory and it's good business but to take those gambles you also have to be prepared to lose. You need a significant amount of money to raise those stakes and we won't gamble to that degree.

Had we have achieved promotion then Herbie, Wilks, Dieng may have been on the radar although just a personal view, I don't think Wilks was worth the gamble.

Barnsley didn't seem to think he was worth the gamble.

The New manager didn’t rate him,
It happens,
Hull obviously did think he was worth the gamble.

The point is over the last 2/3 years we’ve reduced our squad quite significantly And are making it up with short term deals.
In my opinion we are going to struggle to build any future with a squad full of short term deals where each year we have to rebuild our squad

The point is dickos, we can all see your point and understand it, but we won't be indulging in that degree of gambling. Our owners are different characters and go about things differently.

There's more than one way of skinning a cat as we know and accepting how Posh go about their business, we beat them twice last season and remain in the same division. I would like to hope you enjoyed those victories just like everyone else!

[dickos1]

I’ve not mentioned Peterborough.
My only interest is us and the way our squad has deteriorated over the last two years is an obvious concern.

[IDM]

Have our performances on the pitch and the position in the league table been a “serious concern”.?

I thinks we’ve done quite well in those last two seasons..

[Campsall rover]

Have our performances on the pitch and the position in the league table been a “serious concern”.?

I thinks we’ve done quite well in those last two seasons..

Considering the mess Fergie and McCann left us in we did.

[drfchound]

Have our performances on the pitch and the position in the league table been a “serious concern”.?

I thinks we’ve done quite well in those last two seasons..

Considering the mess Fergie and McCann left us in we did.

McCann was in charge for one of those two seasons.

[dickos1]

We did well under mCcann, but then the summer after that was very poor recruitment wise, we sold marquis at the last minute which left us with no striker for the first game of the season, we didn’t replace many if any of the first team contracted players of that season And filled our squad with 6 loan players of which only 5 could play.
For two seasons now we’ve had a good starting 11, but a couple of injuries and we’re struggling.
Currently out of the back 4 we only have Amos has cover, in midfield we have whiteman, copps and then a few inexperienced players and up top We have one striker on the books.
Yes there’s a few weeks to go but you’d think we’d learn from past experience.

[IDM]

It’s your right to have an opinion to be concerned, but I trust DM and the club to get it right..

[Dutch Uncle]

Have our performances on the pitch and the position in the league table been a “serious concern”.?

I thinks we’ve done quite well in those last two seasons..

Considering the mess Fergie and McCann left us in we did.

McCann was in charge for one of those two seasons.

IMHO Hound, McCann left us in a poorer state than he found us. Yes the football played in his year was good and successful, but the actions of the early summer of 2019 meant the squad left was much weaker.

The jury is out on Fergie for me, but that is only because he inherited a very poor situation from Dickov. The football (League 2 season aside) was poor, but he unquestionably left us with a better squad.

[Chris Black come back]

Have our performances on the pitch and the position in the league table been a “serious concern”.?

I thinks we’ve done quite well in those last two seasons..

Considering the mess Fergie and McCann left us in we did.

McCann was in charge for one of those two seasons.

I think perhaps the point was that both Ferguson (4 June) and McCann (21 June) left us in middle of the close season and we were always playing catch up from then in both seasons. McCann arguably was the most damaging as it was not only later but he had taken scalpel to squad but not finished the recruitment. Darren Moore has been behind ever since then, with COVID-19 uncertainty making his job even more challenging.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I’ve not mentioned Peterborough.
My only interest is us and the way our squad has deteriorated over the last two years is an obvious concern.

I mentioned Posh because its part of this thread and a contrast to how we go about things, particularly with DF as manager.

As I've said before, clearly DM has his own way and that ain't going to change just to satisfy us. He could easily be sat there with his feet up knowing the options he has in the pipeline and confident in his, and the players ability, to get up to speed relatively quickly.

There's no particular right or wrong and given your similar concerns last season, I hope you can acknowledge he made a relative success of it.

[dickos1]

I’ve no qualms at all with Moore, but he’s hardly been given the best chance to be successful has he.
Sold his best striker days before the season started, he’s had no money to spend on transfer fees to replace his best striker.
The wage bill on contracted players is significantly less than previous managers have had.
Moore has done well considering what he’s had at his disposal but just imagine where he could take us if he’s given the funds to build his own squad