US Election

[belton rover]

So one half of the US rejoices because they've elected a President who isn't Donald Trump .

Fair play that had to be done and so I'm asking myself now what ? .

My problem is this , 70 million of the US electorate were quite happy with Trump after 4 years in office .

I could conceivably say Starmer wins in 2024 in the UK and defeats Johnson and ask the the same so now what question .......... because your not Boris Johnson ? .

What fecking good is that when in reality nothing much changes for far too many working class people other than we elect someone who acts more credible than the person he defeats .

Be honest for one minute and at least do me the favour of acknowledging that the Democrats and Labour can only be elected just as long as nowt changes too much and the wealth gap ain't getting reduced anytime soon .

You can't really tackle the fundamental issue though can you when to get elected you have to trash the US industrial heartlands and in the UK feck the unions off .

If I ain't exactly dancing on Trumps grave I have good reasons .

The difference is, Tyke, one is a politician quite probably out of his depth. The other is a narcissistic lunatic with the power to destroy us all.

[tyke1962]

So one half of the US rejoices because they've elected a President who isn't Donald Trump .

Fair play that had to be done and so I'm asking myself now what ? .

My problem is this , 70 million of the US electorate were quite happy with Trump after 4 years in office .

I could conceivably say Starmer wins in 2024 in the UK and defeats Johnson and ask the the same so now what question .......... because your not Boris Johnson ? .

What fecking good is that when in reality nothing much changes for far too many working class people other than we elect someone who acts more credible than the person he defeats .

Be honest for one minute and at least do me the favour of acknowledging that the Democrats and Labour can only be elected just as long as nowt changes too much and the wealth gap ain't getting reduced anytime soon .

You can't really tackle the fundamental issue though can you when to get elected you have to trash the US industrial heartlands and in the UK feck the unions off .

If I ain't exactly dancing on Trumps grave I have good reasons .

The difference is, Tyke, one is a politician quite probably out of his depth. The other is a narcissistic lunatic with the power to destroy us all.

My point was Belton with all due respect is that we ourselves having ended up with a PM in the UK who is out of his depth and a narcissistic lunatic in the US because the alternatives can't  offer too much for the working class here and over the pond or otherwise they won't be elected either .

The fecking bandwidth here is a c@ck hair mate .

What really boils my pyss is that Clinton trashed the US industrial heartlands Thatcher style and Republican Trump cashed in .

Fecking Labour got in to bed with the finance industry and the Tories cashed in and Labour haven't had a sniff since .

With the best will in the world I wish the working class wouldn't turn right for the answers and I accept Billy does make some credible points in that respect even though in my opinion he hugely under plays the extent of globalisation .

There's a reason the traditional left are trashed so much by the establishment , politicians and their minions in the media and even by the Labour Party and it's because they can see what's getting played out here and it terrifies them they'd ever catch a strong wind .

Scargill was many things , far from perfect so what's Johnson then ? ..... do you believe they'll ever come after him with the same intensity even though he's trashing the country far more ? .

Honest answer please .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

That "there's no difference between them so what's the point?" line is thoroughly depressing. Because it's wrong.

We had it from the Left when enough of them refused to vote for Brown in 2010 to let in Cameron and Osborne. That resulted in a decade of big increases in NHS and school funding being stopped overnight. It resulted in huge cuts to in-work benefits. It resulted in the Austerity policies that brought the recovery from the 08/09 recession to a shuddering halt, and gave us the worst decade for pay increases since the Napoleonic Wars.

Its sounds like a very safe thing to say, but it's intellectually idle. And wrong. It comes from the Left not getting exactly what it wants and therefore rejecting everything.

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

That "there's no difference between them so what's the point?" line is thoroughly depressing. Because it's wrong.

We had it from the Left when enough of them refused to vote for Brown in 2010 to let in Cameron and Osborne. That resulted in a decade of big increases in NHS and school funding being stopped overnight. It resulted in huge cuts to in-work benefits. It resulted in the Austerity policies that brought the recovery from the 08/09 recession to a shuddering halt, and gave us the worst decade for pay increases since the Napoleonic Wars.

Its sounds like a very safe thing to say, but it's intellectually idle. And wrong. It comes from the Left not getting exactly what it wants and therefore rejecting everything.

Ever thought Billy that everything does need rejecting given where we are now ?

It's hardly a safe thing to say by the way seen as the left is the devil himself in many quarters based on a cold winter in 1978/79 by the way .

If the left own the winter of discontent then what's this we have now ? .

The centre , liberal left and the right have done so much better right ? .

I suspect we may vote the same way Billy but we come from different backgrounds and experiences .

[auckleyflyer]

Billy our only hope is that the right lurches to the same conclusion in the UK because socialist values are rare in 21st century. It does not work here unless extreme circumstances exist.
We actually need two party politics,  the left leaning Liberals need to join Labour. The ukip brexit party + right leaning Liberals need to back conservatives.
We've seen the middle ground muddled by lib dems, social Democrats, sdp for too long. I hope /believe we are a socially leaning country that is mainly not heard because of the lost middle ground. It wasn't so apparent when we voted out of loyalty in the late 80s and 90s but all of a sudden we wonder where it all went wrong?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

Try rejecting everything and proposing a revolutionary change to society.

You'll never win an election.

There's a reason why Labour ended up with Blair. (And for the record, I left the Labour party when Blair was leader because I thought he was way too far to the right than was necessary.)

They got Blair because they had been seared by the rejection of being further to the Left.

As for coming from different backgrounds, depends how far back you go. Both my grandads worked down the pit. I spent every afternoon after school at my grandparents' hovel of a pit house with no hot water, an outside lav with torn up Daily Mirror to wipe your arse on, no bath and no fridge.

And every Sunday at my other granddad's who was an NUM branch official and Labour councillor.

I was lucky that the educational opportunities that the Wilson Labour Govts put in place gave me a path out of the road to the pit. But that's still where my heart and soul are.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Auckley.

You're preaching to the converted. The Right and Centre-Right have not won a majority of the vote in the UK in the past 50 years. But we've had 32 years of Right wing Governments in that time. Because the Tories have had the discipline to stay together and United in one party. While the Left and Centre-Left  has been split among half a dozen.

That's the core of my argument with Tyke. There's nothing to be gained by the sort of approach that he wants, because only 20% of the population supports it. The Left has to realise that it never wins power without being a very broad coalition that includes young, internationalist, metropolitan graduates as well as old left wingers from the post Industrial North. Both those sides need to realise that the others are fundamentally on their side. Not an enemy to be defeated. If they fight against each other, the Right wins every time.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's the play.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324855496722026498

Remember that several Republican controlled states, including Pennsylvania and Georgia, chose to ban counting of mail-in ballots until the on-the-day votes were counted.

Precisely so Trump can now treat his supporters as thick-as-mince idiots, by telling them "I won on the day, then these votes came in AFTER the election."

Just as some of us were predicting weeks ago. It's playing out in front of your eyes. The attempted coup.

[Donnywolf]

Lock him up
Lock him up
Lock him up

repeat ad infinitum lol 



Sorry - a bit giddy - off Pike fishing with a mate.

[Campsall rover]

Problem is some of you guys are so hung up on class.

What or who are the working class in Britain today? In this area for example the pits have long gone. The landscape has changed both literally and in reality.

The younger generations don’t see themselves as working class in the same way people who are now in their 50’s 60’s 70’s & 80’s saw themselves 30 years ago.

Socialism doesn’t have the same appeal. What are the Labour Party offering the younger generations. Where is the appeal to them in voting Labour?
A huge percentage of the under 50’s feel totally disenfranchised by all the political parties. They don’t feel they are being represented.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Last night, Trump re-Tweeted this article.

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/995773?section=josepheschmitz&keywords=electoral-count&year=2020&month=11&date=06&id=995773&oref=t.co

If you can't pick holes a mile wide in its logic, you're really not safe to be left on your own with electric things, nevermind be Leader of the Free World.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I assumed this was from a spoof account. But no. It's genuine. So no sign of Trump getting his big boy pants on any time soon then.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1325099845045071873

[scawsby steve]

273. As far as I'm concerned that's it. I congratulate Joe Biden and the Democrats, because they've won a democratic election fairly and squarely, and I just don't do sore losers.

I'll contact my mate Jimmydee from the Rovers foodbank to donate my ?50 losing bet money ASAP.

That's fifty pounds. What's up with this bloody site.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'll match that SS.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Now is when it gets scary. Never in a million years is Trump going to accept that he has lost. At the very best, he will be forced out but keep screaming from the sidelines that he is the rightful President. And keep the anger going in his base.

At worst, the SC, packed with far right appointees, supports him. Then it truly is Civil War territory.

[scawsby steve]

I'll match that SS.

Cheers BST. It's important to be magnanimous in victory as well as in defeat.

I hope you take me to my word when I say I'd have done exactly the same if Trump had have won.

[tyke1962]

Problem is some of you guys are so hung up on class.

What or who are the working class in Britain today? In this area for example the pits have long gone. The landscape has changed both literally and in reality.

The younger generations don?t see themselves as working class in the same way people who are now in their 50?s 60?s 70?s & 80?s saw themselves 30 years ago.

Socialism doesn?t have the same appeal. What are the Labour Party offering the younger generations. Where is the appeal to them in voting Labour?
A huge percentage of the under 50?s feel totally disenfranchised by all the political parties. They don?t feel they are being represented.

You have to be hung up on class Campsall because nowt much has changed in my opinion .

OK it isn't the top hats v the flat caps anymore but it's there alright .

Austerity was all about class and the Tories still elect the old Eton and Oxford University brigade to be leader .

Nowt wrong with the working class label , be proud of it , I always have .

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'll match that SS.

Cheers BST. It's important to be magnanimous in victory as well as in defeat.

I hope you take me to my word when I say I'd have done exactly the same if Trump had have won.

Never doubted it SS.

[MachoMadness]

https://youtu.be/Z0hEFa52Bdo

Good grief. How is Giuliani a lawyer?

[scawsby steve]

Actually, after not liking the look of him a few months ago, I'm starting to warm a bit towards Joe Biden. He has a real calmness about him that's quite refreshing.

After the terrible tragedies he's suffered in his life, I wish him luck now.

[Metalmicky]

https://youtu.be/Z0hEFa52Bdo

Good grief. How is Giuliani a lawyer?

He's a self serving conniving shit - who will follow the trough wherever it takes him. Apparently he's in some rather excruciating scenes in the new Borat sequel.......

[Janso]

https://youtu.be/Z0hEFa52Bdo

Good grief. How is Giuliani a lawyer?

He's a self serving conniving shit - who will follow the trough wherever it takes him. Apparently he's in some rather excruciating scenes in the new Borat sequel.......

He's having an interview with Borat's daughter in her (or perhaps his, but anyway) hotel suite, and he agrees to go into the bedroom for a drink and appears to begin to undress himself on the bed. Only, the character is 15... and I think he knew her supposed age too.

He reckons he was taking his microphone gear out his trousers... 

[BillyStubbsTears]

As Seth Abramson says, regardless of whether he actually WAS fiddling with himself, the very act of being left in a potentially compromising position with a young, foreign woman was a horrific error of judgement from someone so close to the President. Given that Giuliani has regularly done business in Russia with leading members of the gangster elite, it is inconceivable that he hasn't been set up by the Russian secret services at some point, if his judgement is so bad.

[Filo]

What a t**t!

https://twitter.com/kasia_skynews/status/1325165019378688005?s=21

[IDM]

Now is when it gets scary. Never in a million years is Trump going to accept that he has lost. At the very best, he will be forced out but keep screaming from the sidelines that he is the rightful President. And keep the anger going in his base.

At worst, the SC, packed with far right appointees, supports him. Then it truly is Civil War territory.

They need to present credible evidence rather than unsubstantiated allegations.. there is no sign of that is there.?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fascinating insight into the schism in America here. Hit the "Size of Lead" tab under the map.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-president.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-elections-2020&region=TOP_BANNER&context=storyline_menu_recirc

As far as i can see, Trump has won only 1 county in the entire country by more than 100,000 votes. Biden has won dozens by more than that. Counties vary in size from a couple of hundred voters in the desert areas to several million in the counties covering the big cities, like LA, Chicago, Philadelphia etc, with a few hundred thousand voters in dozens of counties covering mid-size cities.

So what this means is that Trump hasn't won large victories in any large metro areas, and only in a slack handful of smaller urban areas (counties covering the suburbs of Salt Lake City, Houston etc). His vote has come from winning big in the rural areas, or winning small in suburban areas.

It's fascinating to look at the detail. Take Kentucky which is about as solid a Republican state as you can find. The overall state voted 2:1 for Trump. But in the counties covering the two big cities, Lexington and Louisville, the vote went 60:40 to Biden.

That seems to me to be a massively unhealthy rift in American society. And it is hard to see how you go about healing it.

So I had a look at the relationship between rural states and Trump support in the last election. Other than a couple of outliers (Maine and Vermont, which are rural but traditionally New England liberal-leaning states) the correlation is stunning. And since America is getting progressively more urbanised, this suggests that, over the long term, Trumpist politics doesn't really have a future, for all the bleakness it has brought recently.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is...err...revealing of Raab's opinions.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1325138242249895937

[Campsall rover]

Problem is some of you guys are so hung up on class.

What or who are the working class in Britain today. In this area for example the pits have long gone. The landscape has changed both literally and in reality.

The younger generations don’t see themselves as working class in the same way people who are now in their 50?s 60?s 70?s & 80?s saw themselves 30 years ago.

Socialism doesn?t have the same appeal. What are the Labour Party offering the younger generations. Where is the appeal to them in voting Labour?
A huge percentage of the under 50’s feel totally disenfranchised by all the political parties. They don?t feel they are being represented.

You have to be hung up on class Campsall because nowt much has changed in my opinion .

OK it isn't the top hats v the flat caps anymore but it's there alright .

Austerity was all about class and the Tories still elect the old Eton and Oxford University brigade to be leader .

Nowt wrong with the working class label , be proud of it , I always have .

Sorry Tyke I just don’t like this class tag.  We are all one aren’t we as Biden has just said in his speech tonight.
It’s an outdated concept. While you have this “I am working class mantra“ then you are suggesting you are different to people that are so called “middle class”
Tyke you are not different. We are all the same. We are all citizens of the Uk. We are all members of the human race. We are all equal. Equality will only come when that attitude prevails.

[Campsall rover]

Anyway back to the OP

Thank heavens Biden has won. Let’s just hope Trump gets the right advice and for once in his life listens to that advice and leave his post with some semblance of dignity.

If he has to be removed kicking and screaming like a spoilt child then what does it say about the man and what he represents.

This is a huge night for America & more importantly for the whole world.
Maybe the denial of the Covid virus and the denial of climate change can be addressed by a country that has only been thinking inwardly for the last 4 years and been putting 2 fingers up to the rest of the world.
4 more years of Trump and we would all be in desperate trouble.

I like Kamala Harris and maybe she is a future US president. Now that would be something very special for equality of gender & race.

[Donnywolf]

https://youtu.be/Z0hEFa52Bdo

Good grief. How is Giuliani a lawyer?

He's a self serving conniving shit - who will follow the trough wherever it takes him. Apparently he's in some rather excruciating scenes in the new Borat sequel.......

He is one horrible little man. I was going to reply something but saw you had beaten me to it and nailed it !

If they want a Spiiting image of him I suggest they borrow the real thing.

I think I will name my next Beer after him Gu-ale-arni - and can get a Pint of Bitter every time I fancy reminding myself of his outpourings.

Gripe water would be another good un