US Election

[tyke1962]

Absolutely nailed in this article .


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/us-trump-biden-president-elect

[SydneyRover]

Yes thanks Tyke, I'm under no illusions of what Binden can or wants to achieve I just think it will be better than trump but who for I'm not sure or by how much. He didn't promise a lot so the bar isn't high to start with. I wonder how many millions and more will be poured into the reruns in Georgia. Control of the senate of course is pivotal to real change but has Biden got the metal to do it, is someone that wants to build bridges right for a position that really needs a headkicker. I live in hope.

[IDM]

We can all see that BB is having a pop - unnecessarily - at people who voted remain for brexit.

As far as I know, no one is saying the vote itself was rigged, or a fraud, or that Leave cheated.

There is plenty of argument that the Leave side peddled lies and did not define what leave meant before the vote.  But that is not saying the actual vote was in doubt - unlike Trump and his cronies

BB is clearly stirring for the sake of it, which falls into the WUM bounds.

BB - there is no need for you to do this, no need at all.  Disagree by all means, but your deliberate WUM action is unwelcome. 

Yes I know others on here can post inflammatory posts, but can you not give it a rest.?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well THIS is...err...interesting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rabrowne75/status/1326284851268489217

Trump has cleared out all the top brass at the Department of Defense who refused to send troops into cities where disturbances were going in this summer.

It's likely to be the man-child having a tantrum and lashing out at people who have stood up to him.

But.

If you were in his shoes and you were seriously considering refusing to stand-down, you would make damn sure you removed any obstacles from the top of the DoD, and replaced them with your own picks.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It shouldn't really matter. At the end of the day, come January 20th he isn't their Commander-In-Chief any more.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glyn.

There are MANY scenarios where it is not as simple as that.

Here's one obvious one:

Trump takes legal action to get votes overturned. There is no hard and fast evidence of fraud, but he pitches his case on nuanced technicalities. In particular, the claim that the late changes to how absentee ballots were dealt with in Pennsylvania. It goes to the Supreme Court. There's a split decision, with his three nominees and two other conservative justices voting to support having the Pennsylvania vote annulled. But one of the other right wing justices sides with the three remaining more liberal justices, and the four of them go public, saying this is a constitutional outrage. In that scenario, the election is in legal limbo. It looks like a peaceful coup has been enacted. But as we approach 20 January, nothing is certain. Guaranteed to be massive social unrest in that scenario, and it is far from a fanciful one. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it is quite a likely one.

Another scenario is that states with Republican local Govt, but who voted for Biden, take the unilateral decision that they disagree with the result of their state's presidential vote (cos...reasons) and refuse to mandate their Electoral College voters to support Biden. That is a legal and constitutional quagmire, and wold again be seen by the Democrats as an attempted coup. Senator Lindsay Graham of South Carolina repeatedly refused to rule this out as a strategy for the Republicans when interviewed at the weekend.

[Donnywolf]

Surely though they would have to get more than Pa annulled ? That would still have Biden on 270 but with Az and Ga (where he leads by 5 million votes) he is still over the line unless Trump can stir up some irregularities in those States too

Secondly if he got Pa annulled he would not get it either surely and would still be stuck on 214 ? If he did then Biden would launch a counter Suit I suppose but who knows

The nightmare scenario predicted by many is here - and it depends I suppose if the Republican heirarchy tell Trump we want you out and whether he would listen (though I suspect I know that he would not).

What a mess all round

[EasyforDennis]

Surely though they would have to get more than Pa annulled ? That would still have Biden on 270 but with Az and Ga (where he leads by 5 million votes) he is still over the line unless Trump can stir up some irregularities in those States too

Secondly if he got Pa annulled he would not get it either surely and would still be stuck on 214 ? If he did then Biden would launch a counter Suit I suppose but who knows

The nightmare scenario predicted by many is here - and it depends I suppose if the Republican heirarchy tell Trump we want you out and whether he would listen (though I suspect I know that he would not).

What a mess all round

But isn't that always the case where you have a dictator in charge?

[Bentley Bullet]

We can all see that BB is having a pop - unnecessarily - at people who voted remain for brexit.

I voted Remain!

As far as I know, no one is saying the vote itself was rigged, or a fraud, or that Leave cheated.

There were claims of all three of those!

There is plenty of argument that the Leave side peddled lies and did not define what leave meant before the vote.  But that is not saying the actual vote was in doubt - unlike Trump and his cronies

There were demands for a revote!

BB is clearly stirring for the sake of it, which falls into the WUM bounds.

Some comments wind me up. That doesn't mean they are WUM's.

BB - there is no need for you to do this, no need at all.  Disagree by all means, but your deliberate WUM action is unwelcome.

Are you speaking for yourself or representing a clique?

Yes I know others on here can post inflammatory posts, but can you not give it a rest.?

I can't make others who post inflammatory posts give it a rest.

IDM - You've wound yourself up.

IDM - You're the one who mentioned a connection between the US and the Brexit vote regarding the way both sets of losers moaned about the result, not me.

[IDM]

Sorry BB but the inference in your post was clear. 

If you weren’t on a wind up, why post it at all.?

[Bentley Bullet]

IDM, my post merely suggested that there was nowt worse than bloody whinging losers who can't accept the fact they lost and in an act of desperation accuse the winners of cheating. I stand by that. If you're wound up by that comment that is your prerogative.

[IDM]

We can all see that BB is having a pop - unnecessarily - at people who voted remain for brexit.

I voted Remain!  We’re talking about things happening after the vote..  I was generalising



As far as I know, no one is saying the vote itself was rigged, or a fraud, or that Leave cheated.

There were claims of all three of those!  Were there.?  Plenty of issues surrounding the campaign but where are the allegations of fraud in the vote counting.?

There is plenty of argument that the Leave side peddled lies and did not define what leave meant before the vote.  But that is not saying the actual vote was in doubt - unlike Trump and his cronies

There were demands for a revote!  There were demands for a second referendum, but based on unresolved issues not the actual vote count.. you can see the difference can’t you.?

BB is clearly stirring for the sake of it, which falls into the WUM bounds.

Some comments wind me up. That doesn't mean they are WUM's.  Your comment was deliberate to stir.

BB - there is no need for you to do this, no need at all.  Disagree by all means, but your deliberate WUM action is unwelcome.

Are you speaking for yourself or representing a clique?  I only ever speak for myself, you know that.

Yes I know others on here can post inflammatory posts, but can you not give it a rest.?

I can't make others who post inflammatory posts give it a rest.  Irrelevant to this point.

IDM - You've wound yourself up.  Nope.

IDM - You're the one who mentioned a connection between the US and the Brexit vote regarding the way both sets of losers moaned about the result, not me.  You inferred it, if not, what other vote where you referring to.?

[IDM]

IDM, my post merely suggested that there was nowt worse than bloody whinging losers who can't accept the fact they lost and in an act of desperation accuse the winners of cheating. I stand by that. If you're wound up by that comment that is your prerogative.

And my point was that there weren’t accusations of cheating in the actual vote for brexit - and it was you that created the inference.  If that wasn’t to stir things up, then I don’t know why you posted it at all.

That was why I replied.  I’m not wound up - if you drop a pebble in a pond the ripples soon stop.

[BillyStubbsTears]

 False equivalence.

No one. Not one single person ever suggested that votes were cast illegally or counted incorrectly in the 2016 Referendum.

So any attempt to draw a false equivalent between the criticisms of the 2016 process (which were based on clear and unarguable evidence of people being deliberately misled, on a vote which had no means of redress) and the US election (where the claims - without evidence- are of illegality of and whatever happens, there will be another vote in 4 years time) are just so much ba-baa.

There's no equivalence on the type of vote.

There's no equivalence on the substance of the complaint.

There's no equivalence on the evidence offered.

There's no equivalence on the democratic means of redress.

Disappointing that needs spelling out to be honest. But not surprising.

[Bentley Bullet]

No one. Not one single person ever suggested that votes were cast illegally or counted incorrectly in the 2016 Referendum.

Including me! what's that got to do with the price of fish?

So any attempt to draw a false equivalent between the criticisms of the 2016 process (which were based on clear and unarguable evidence of people being deliberately misled, on a vote which had no means of redress) and the US election (where the claims - without evidence- are of illegality of and whatever happens, there will be another vote in 4 years time) are just so much ba-baa.

Who attempted to draw a false equivalent? As far as I'm concerned the only similarity with IDM's comparison between the US election and the EU referendum is that both sets of losers were whingers who accused the winners of cheating.

[IDM]

Ffs BB it was YOU who implied the comparison, I just pointed it out..

[Bentley Bullet]

IDM. I DID NOT IMPLY A COMPARISON WITH THE EU REFERENDUM. YOU DID!

I was actually inferring the 2019 UK General election!

Mind you, I see your point and on reflection, either case would have done.

[IDM]

Who the hell suggested any fraudulent voting in the 2019 election.?

Whilst I can’t read minds it is fairly clear you did originally mean brexit.  You don’t like being called out about it and so you’re trying to dig yourself out of a hole of your own making.

Apart from that Dachshund voting multiple times in Dunny on the Wold, where has there been a substantiated allegation of election fraud in the uk.?

The point is about fraud, not about the issues being voted on.

[Bentley Bullet]

IDM, I've never been able to stop you from being wrong in the past and It's no surprise I can't now. There WERE accusations of fraud both in the 2019 UK election AND in the 2016  EU referendum.

If you don't believe me, type "Fraud accusations in the 2019 UK election" and "Fraud accusations in the 2016 EU Referendum."

[IDM]

Why should I research something you claim.?  You can provide evidence if you want.

As for being right or wrong, which of us never admits to being wrong.?

Big clue, it isn’t me.

[Bentley Bullet]

IDM, I will most certainly admit to being wrong, if the situation ever arises.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Isn't a more realistic scenario that Trump will go without wishing Biden well?  I just can't see him taking an option that amounts to a removal of democratic processes.  More likely he'll keep up his narrative and go albeit grudgingly.

BST is right though, he could use republican power to shore him up if he chose, but that's suicide for the republican part and they won't do it.

[wilts rover]

Apolgies for distracting away from BB trying his best to wind people up about nothing, but back on subject, don't forget that this election was a State wide election - and not a federal run one. They are United States for a reason.

Therefore in order for Trump to take any complaint to the Supreme Court he would need to prove fraud in any particular state - not that he doesn't like the rules in that particular state. That is a matter for the state legislation - not the SC as they have already said.

Unbelievably they are still counting votes and as of yesterday Biden's lead in the states that matter is:

Arizona: 14,746
Georgia: 12,567
Nevada: 36,274
Pennsylvania: 47,483

Even if the courts do throw out a few ballots which came in late (and in PA these have been put to one side and not counted) are they really going to throw out that many?

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1326245845671481351

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

I'm not sure why that should be suicide for the Republican party. 71million people voted for Trump after his Govt had a deliberate policy of putting babies in concentration camps at the border. After Mueller made it as clear as he could that the reason he wasn't able to get indictments on Trump over his collusion with Russia was that several Trump associates preferred to go to jail than co-operate with the inquiry (that being the way that the Mafia operates of course).  He's shown them he is a moral abomination and a crook and they still voted for the Republican party. Why wouldn't they if he overthrows a presidential election?

You've already got people like Lindsey Graham paving the way, saying on Monday "The Republican party wins elections by winning the intellectual argument. The Democratic party wins elections by stealing them." he won his Senatorial election by 60-40, despite being a lying, repugnant piece of shit.

[MachoMadness]

If you're wondering why Trump is starting lawsuits which everyone knows he won't win, he's started a Gofundme this week which he's calling his "election defence fund". Of course, this fund is actually being used to help pay off his mountain of debts. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/nov/10/donald-trump-election-fund-debt

[Donnywolf]

Wilts (from 3 above)

Yes thats what I was outlining in Reply #216 above on this Page - that they can take Pa off him (but it wont be Trumps) and they would need to then get an outcome in those 4 States you mentioned 2 of which Az and Ga I highlighted in my reply

[BillyStubbsTears]

MM. Wouldn't be the first time that Trump has stolen money from innocent dupes.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/07/777287610/judge-says-trump-must-pay-2-million-over-misuse-of-foundation-funds?t=1605115547039

He's some piece of work isn't he. Stealing cash from a Veterans' fundraiser to pay for his own ego trip. And STILL there are people who think the sun shines out of his orange arsehole.

[IDM]

I still think there are will be a significant amount of republicans who voted for Trump simply because he’s the Republican candidate, despite his failings.

[wilts rover]

So you think there should be an investigation into the allegation of fraud - even though you have no evidence that a fraud has been committed.

The ridiculousness of the allegations summed up in this interview:

https://twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1326198168091054080

[drfchound]

I still think there are will be a significant amount of republicans who voted for Trump simply because he’s the Republican candidate, despite his failings.

Isn’t that what happens in the UK as well.
People vote for their preferred Party despite who the leader is.