Clarke Resigns..... right?

[Campsall rover]

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=278324.msg1001222#msg1001222

This!

The link won’t open BST

I think it’s because the site is having major problems.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Opens for me. It was DBR's post #25 in this thread. I posted the link as I couldn't use the QUOTE method.

[Campsall rover]

Opens for me. It was DBR's post #25 in this thread. I posted the link as I couldn't use the QUOTE method.

Ok yes agree with DBR it’s how things are said and the context it is used in.

Mot so much the words used.

I just want to confirm i agree Clarke’s comments were totally unacceptable.

[dickos1]

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I think regardless of if it says people first, the expression is still wrong.
Black people don’t wish to be described as a colour they want to be described as black.
Both expressions are wrong but one seems to be accepted

[EasyforDennis]

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I think regardless of if it says people first, the expression is still wrong.
Black people don’t wish to be described as a colour they want to be described as black.
Both expressions are wrong but one seems to be accepted

One minute you can't say Black, then it is wrong to say coloured, now black and people of colour are accepted expressions. Is there any wonder some older people say the wrong thing?

[the vicar]

 :suicide:So if it is wrong to say black for a person, how come they say themselves BLACK lives matter, or if people on here say they are just people as they are, shouldn’t that be all lives matter or people’s lives matter

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Campsall, just call him Darren Moore, boss, our manager. If you were asked to describe DM as a man, how far, up or down the list would you use Black to describe him? Does his colour, religion, sexual orientation matter?

It's not racist or offensive to say he's black, but the context in which you use the description does matter.

Black Lives Matter is much more than 'differentiating' between black or white etc.

There's a good thread about the subject in Off Topic which helps us to question ourselves about our views. It helped me to question my own views and whether I'm racist or anti racist etc.

For example, would you say you have white privilege?

[IDM]

vicar I only mentioned the difference between “coloured people” and “people of colour”, to point out the massive difference that the order of those words implies.

I’m no expert, but I think black as a descriptive word, rather than a label, is appropriate.?

As for Black Lives Matter, the point there is that for decades and centuries even, people and societies gave the impression that black lives didn’t matter - and that even now some people’s behaviours still show that..

[ravenrover]

Can someone define "black"? Is it correct to call someone of Indian or Pakistani origin "black"? Or someone from a mixed marriage as "black"? As Campsall said our age group were brought up to use coloured as a decent term of description as opposed to all other derogatory terms, when was it decided it has now become wrong and by whom?
To me a person is a person whatever the colour of their skin

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The vast majority of us are not outwardly racist but we can be lazy and use terms that have racist overtones that could be detrimental and not understand why it does matter.

As said above, if you are getting hung up on whst words you can or can't use to describe the colour of  someones skin, then you're missing the point somewhat.

I worked worked in an office with two Karen's on my team. One is white, the other is black. In conversation it would come up, Karen said this or that, and I would get the question “Which Karen?“ to which I'd say “Black Karen“.

Is that racist? No. Is it lazy? Yes, I could have used their surnames, hair colour etc but in context it wasn't racist or offensive. Karen is well aware she is black and was not offended in the slightest however, I can think of many words to describe Karen as a person and the word "black' would be way, way down the list.

[BillyStubbsTears]

DBR.

Need to be careful using the term "Karen". You'll get yourself in trouble.

[sha66y]

He’s certainly not a racist, but this PC world means that it’s easier to say someone’s offended over the slightest thing they don’t happen to like  nowadays.....

Maybe all the footballers should have made a joint statement saying that they are not offended by anything he said and that he should not of resigned....

I’m deeply offended by those that seek to look for racism where it clearly does not exist....

I’m deeply offended by those that tell others how they should think and act regarding race discussions...

I’m deeply offended by those that lack the intelligence to KNOW when something is actually racist and just said the wrong way.....

[GazLaz]

As soon as people start spouting “All lives matter” you know there’s no hope for them!

[MachoMadness]

Context matters. "Coloured" has often been used very negatively in the past, which makes it uncomfortable for many black people. Most notably, in the Jim Crow era, which is in living memory (including my wife's grandparents who lived through it). Segregated areas would often refer to "coloreds". It's still quite raw for a lot of people. "People of colour" doesn't have that same history.

Believe it or not, there isn't an army of woke lefties out there waiting for someone to say the wrong thing so they can jump on it. If some old bloke called my wife "coloured" because he innocently didn't know any better, she'd likely ignore it or politely try to explain if it started to make her uncomfortable. Most black people would do the same. Your parents and grandparents are fine, they don't need to walk on eggshells. But coming from the chairman of the FA, representing the sport to MPs, that's a whole different ball game and is quite unacceptable, so the furore is warranted in this case.

[i_ateallthepies]

The quote function not working for me either and I wanted to comment on a number of points made.  Instead...

IDM, I've been struggling to understand why the term Coloured people and people of colour are considered so different and until your explanation in Reply 22 nobody has been able to explain it and it has been discussed at length on radio today.  I must admit to feeling annoyance when the presenter introduced Joleon Lescott to contribute from the Black person's perspective, she began by asking him to explain why the term Coloured is offensive and people of colour is not.  He couldn't and after a bit of bluster said something lame about it just make him angry.
So, IDM, to come back to your explanation if the distinction is putting person in front of the word colour is the key distinction why then is speaking of Black people ok?  Genuine question because, apart from this your explanation is the only one that seems to have any logic.

[IDM]

I dunno, it’s probably all to do with the context.

Take DM, when we discuss him in respect of DRFC he is simply Darren Moore our manager.  In a discussion on diversity in football he is one of the few black managers in the game, clearly disproportionate to the number of black players in the game.

You wouldn’t think words can have so much power and influence, when ordered in a certain way or in different contexts, but they do.  Often  accidentally and without malice.

I don’t have the absolute answers but I would think a context which is only descriptive is ok, which moves away from any indication of “us” and “them”.?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

People of colour/coloured people? First thing that springs to my mind, is who the hell does it refer to? Aren't we all people of colour? Or are we referring to non whites? That in itself has inferences that white people are superior. Is like a white person in effect saying everyone else but us!

[drfchound]

The colour of skin does not matter! Get it?

We are all people!

If that is the case DBR, why did I hear on the sports news this morning that it has been suggested that Clarke’s replacement should be a black person?

[SydneyRover]

the thing is maybe and only maybe it wouldn't such be an issue if people got it wrong-occasionaly, a genuine mistake if they had full equality and there wasn't prejudice, there wasn't a long history of prejudice and and society didn't still struggle with it.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Hound, why do you think it is being suggested?

[sha66y]

I was gonna have a chinky tonight......guess I’ll have to rethink the context of my desire for food of an oriental nature....

[SydneyRover]

I was thinking of having a shaggy but I've gone off the idea

[drfchound]

Hound, why do you think it is being suggested?

I don’t know.
I was just asking the question in light of what you had said.
Personally I don’t care who gets the job.

[idler]

The best person ought to get it but they seldom do.

[the vicar]

Black is not a colour, so they can’t be classed as coloured or people of colour

[Campsall rover]

Can someone define "black"? Is it correct to call someone of Indian or Pakistani origin "black"? Or someone from a mixed marriage as "black"? As Campsall said our age group were brought up to use coloured as a decent term of description as opposed to all other derogatory terms, when was it decided it has now become wrong and by whom?
To me a person is a person whatever the colour of their skin

Bang on ravenrover. You hit the nail on the head.

[i_ateallthepies]

So, Coloured is a perfectly logical term after all.  Seems to me the problem around this terminology is that those trying to tell us it's a derogatory word base their opinion on the assumption that anyone using it does so from a position of ignorance or malice.  They would be very far from correct to do so.  I was raised to have no racial prejudice, it's no exaggeration to say that I am only around today because of a Black West Indian GP but I have always preferred to use the term 'coloured' to any others in common use.

[Bentley Bullet]

I thought "Coloured" used to be the acceptable term, and "Black" was a taboo term, hence the banning of the word Blackboards in schools etc. It is a difficult task trying to keep up with what is politically correct at any given time, and these days if you say the wrong thing you are assumed racist by the politically correct brigade.

No doubt I'll be considered racist by some because of this post.

[IDM]

The taboo on blackboards is pc gone mad.. the implication was that because chalk was white it was the white that had some kind of superiority over the black.

However a blackboard is a blackboard because it is a board which happens to be black.  From my memory most of the chalk my teachers used was actually yellow as it was more visible especially with reflections.

 Not using the word black when the context is perfectly ok to do so and is unrelated to people or their skin colour, is crazy IMHO.

[ravenrover]

Now that would be coloured chalk or now Chalk of colour