This latest government kerfuffle

[SydneyRover]

50 points for that one bst

[Axholme Lion]

In today's Telegraph & Argus it reports that Philip Davies the Conservative MP for Shipley received £33,320 for 84 hours work.
GVC Holdings paid him this to provide advice on responsible gambling and customer service.
That's some hourly rate, more than a lot of people earn in a year for less than three weeks work. That's on top of his wage and other expenses.
Of course we are all in it together aren't we?

Where's Che Geuvara when you need him most?

[idler]

It also listed the other Bradford MPs. Their totals were far less. Less than five figures, two for flights and accommodation on visits to Kashmir and one of about £1,000 for accommodation at the Labour Party Conference fro the Unite union.
I have no problem with anyone claiming legitimate expenses but some just take the mickey.

[Metalmicky]

This may actually work in Boris's favour - he can hang a lot of shit round Cummings neck and start with a clean slate.  Let's hope he picks the right cronies to join his group....

[i_ateallthepies]

The buck stops with Johnson.  How can a Prime Minister blame the advisor he appointed and supported.

[ravenrover]

No it's a points deduction for Bill, just been on the news that DC has left the building

[ravenrover]

Word of the day is 'catchfart' (17th century): one who slavishly follows behind their boss and who blows with the political wind. Sums up members of The Clowns government very well

[drfchound]

The buck stops with Johnson.  How can a Prime Minister blame the advisor he appointed and supported.

There have been posters on this forum who have claimed that Cummings was making the decisions and was running the country.

[SydneyRover]

there are people that disagree on this forum .............. shock horror

[i_ateallthepies]

hound, and they may be right but responsibility for that state of affairs still rests solely with the Prime Minister (the clue is in his title).

[Donnywolf]

The mess belongs to the "Manager" as he appoints reshuffles fires decides on policies and has to carry the can

So Prime Minister IS the Manager and he owns the whole mess - despite them "spinning it" as they would to place the blame on others and make HIM ook the decisive one

Good luck especailly with that last bit given he was a man who wrote 2 speeches on leaving the EU and remaining within the EU and kept them stored away to see which would fit his Agenda the best. Unfortunately imo he picked the wrong option though he did get what HE wanted (at the time) to be PM

[drfchound]

hound, and they may be right but responsibility for that state of affairs still rests solely with the Prime Minister (the clue is in his title).

Absolutely pies.
However I was indicating that some of our UK posters and overseas ones too were suggesting that Cummings was making the decisions, not Boris.

[SydneyRover]

Lots coming out of the woodwork now condemning either johnson or cumming but non of which puts johnson in a good light.

'i shouldn't have supported cumming over his lockdown trip'

translation ....... I knew he was lying but I supported johnson over good government

Added

https://twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1327639962980900864

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

(Check: Yes, Hound.)

De jure vs De facto.

Perfectly possible to have Mr A as the legally recognised and legally responsible PM, while in practice, Mr B is actually making the decisions.

That's what we've had for the past year.

We'll see what happens now, given Johnson's long established reputation for being bored by detail and too idle to put in the hours required to understand complex issues. That's why Cummings ended up making the COVID decisions back in February, while Johnson was off the scene sorting out his divorce. And why Johnson was so far off the script when he popped up again in early March, insisting he was going to carry of shaking hands while the SAGE people were imploring us not to.

[SydneyRover]

What is becoming a little clearer is the power behind the power behind the throne that Symonds is not shy of interfering and indirectly undermining johnson's decisions if those reports are true regarding her devious work against Cain's promotion. This in itself would make for interestesting discussions around the breakfast table.

[tyke1962]

Tories doing what Tories do best when the country is a shyte show which it inevitably is under their governance , turn on each other .

With the clock running down on a trade deal with the EU , the pandemic returning us to another lockdown , the extension of the furlough scheme and Biden's election victory across the pond things have clearly come to a head in my opinion .

Less than 12 months ago it was a different story of course as Johnson won a massive majority on a brexit ticket with Cummings and co stars of the back office show .

It clearly escaped Johnson that their usefulness following the election was done and dusted but decision making clearly isn't his strongest suite as we know .

The stories coming out of Downing Street are of personality clashes , power grabs and what ever people at this level fall out about but the truth is in my opinion the fact the country's in total meltdown and the internal blame game has begun .

[drfchound]

Hound.

(Check: Yes, Hound.)

De jure vs De facto.

Perfectly possible to have Mr A as the legally recognised and legally responsible PM, while in practice, Mr B is actually making the decisions.

That's what we've had for the past year.

We'll see what happens now, given Johnson's long established reputation for being bored by detail and too idle to put in the hours required to understand complex issues. That's why Cummings ended up making the COVID decisions back in February, while Johnson was off the scene sorting out his divorce. And why Johnson was so far off the script when he popped up again in early March, insisting he was going to carry of shaking hands while the SAGE people were imploring us not to.

Yep, I am well aware of that possibility BST. (Mr A and Mr B).
Whether that has actually been happening though is probably less than certain.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

I've given you an example of it happening.

By the first few days of March (by which time Johnson had missed FIVE Cobra meetings on COVID, we had a policy that we should be strongly encouraging less social contact. Cummings had been the key No10 person engaging with SAGE. Johnson  then rolled into his first public briefing on COVID and announced to the nation that he fully intended to keep on shaking hands.

Either he was totally disconnected from the development of policy on that, or he was an idiot, deliberately undermining the agreed Govt policy. Either way, he certainly wasn't controlling it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way Hound, you might not think Cummings was in charge, but this article in the Times suggests HE did.

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1327700856565870592

Given that his usual MO is to go off like a Tasmanian Devil when he thinks journalists have tarred him unfairly (including a 4000 word rant on an official Govt site in April, tearing into journalists), let's see how he responds to this.

[drfchound]

By the way Hound, you might not think Cummings was in charge, but this article in the Times suggests HE did.

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1327700856565870592

Given that his usual MO is to go off like a Tasmanian Devil when he thinks journalists have tarred him unfairly (including a 4000 word rant on an official Govt site in April, tearing into journalists), let's see how he responds to this.

I have never said that I don’t think Cummings was in charge.
I have never said he was either.
Because I don’t know.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Very Zen, Hound.

[drfchound]

Also very true.
You have a habit of quoting me of saying things that I haven’t said.

[wilts rover]

By the way Hound, you might not think Cummings was in charge, but this article in the Times suggests HE did.

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1327700856565870592

Given that his usual MO is to go off like a Tasmanian Devil when he thinks journalists have tarred him unfairly (including a 4000 word rant on an official Govt site in April, tearing into journalists), let's see how he responds to this.

I have never said that I don’t think Cummings was in charge.
I have never said he was either.
Because I don’t know.

Well if I had to guess between the bloke who hid in a fridge to hide from reporters or the one who brazenly fronted out before the world's press about driving 60 miles to Barnard Castle and back test his eyesight - I know where my money would be.

Although if this week's reports are true, that the bloke who hid in a fridge appointed the bloke who went to Barnard Castle's mate to a senior job, only to withdraw it when his missus complained - it ain't either of them in charge now!

[SydneyRover]

This is a very credible take on the build what just happened and maybe why it may not resolve a lot.

''Now that Rasputin Cummings has fallen, who will grasp control of Tsar Boris?''
Andrew Rawnsley

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/15/now-that-rasputin-cummings-has-fallen-who-will-grasp-control-of-tsar-boris

[drfchound]

By the way Hound, you might not think Cummings was in charge, but this article in the Times suggests HE did.

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1327700856565870592

Given that his usual MO is to go off like a Tasmanian Devil when he thinks journalists have tarred him unfairly (including a 4000 word rant on an official Govt site in April, tearing into journalists), let's see how he responds to this.

I have never said that I don’t think Cummings was in charge.
I have never said he was either.
Because I don’t know.

Well if I had to guess between the bloke who hid in a fridge to hide from reporters or the one who brazenly fronted out before the world's press about driving 60 miles to Barnard Castle and back test his eyesight - I know where my money would be.

Although if this week's reports are true, that the bloke who hid in a fridge appointed the bloke who went to Barnard Castle's mate to a senior job, only to withdraw it when his missus complained - it ain't either of them in charge now!

“If I had to guess”.
Does that mean you don’t know either?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

If course we don't know for certain. But you draw conclusions on the balance of evidence.

Just like you draw conclusions on all politicians not being as bad as each other on the balance of evidence.

Or you don't. You can just opt out of it by an "all things are unknowable" approach.

[albie]

Coco goes back into self-isolation again;
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54954698

So much for the relaunch planned for this week.

[Nudga]

When does this f**kin pantomime finish?

[drfchound]

Coco goes back into self-isolation again;
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54954698

So much for the relaunch planned for this week.

Isn’t that one of those things that can happen though albie.
Not really anyone’s fault is it.

[SydneyRover]

nope nothing to see it's all just one big accident hound ............. waiting to happen