Union at Google, Is this the start of fight back?

[SydneyRover]

''More than 200 US Google employees form a workers’ union. Employees signed cards to join the Alphabet Workers Union, to ensure work at a fair wage and without fear of abuse''

Hopefully this may inspire those in Amazon warehouse type jobs around the world that they can have a say.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jan/04/more-than-200-us-google-employees-form-union

[selby]

  A union is as strong as its members Syd, do you think the me me me generations have got it in them to stick up for what they think is right?

[SydneyRover]

I don't think there is a me me me generation selby, you may have to enlighten me/us. Those that haven't had the support of a good union or being part of a 'union' family have to learn and see examples ..... similar to minority groups really. If they see that a unionised workforce can negotiate better conditions and pay it may spark something.

[selby]

Syd, being just employed at the moment is the main thing people will be concerned with, don't think for one moment that some unscrupulous employers will not exploit the situation.
  And before you start I have no truck with it, but am a realist. Tyke is the expert in these things and has been a convenor in the coal industry and the wider private industry, he might be able to throw some light on if the attitudes are different and how attractive he thinks being in a union at work really is in different industries.

[i_ateallthepies]

I thought I read Tyke say this week he didn't take up representing workers until he left the coal industry.

[selby]

  Pies you could be right and I didn't read it although getting a grounding and being a member of a union would have been part of working in that industry.

[tyke1962]

  Pies you could be right and I didn't read it although getting a grounding and being a member of a union would have been part of working in that industry.

As I understand it these days a company has to recognise a trade union if a certain number of the workplace join the representative trade union , however bargaining rights regarding pay don't form part of that recognition unless the company chooses to do so .

However even from a start up position I would massively encourage it because it means that dialogue has started between a company and a collective .

My advice would be to work with management for the greater good , health and safety , procedures around doing the job more effectively and build up a working relationship and trust .

I would also advise that any discipline issues a union representative is in attendance which is lawful right , notes taken , a written minutes of the disciplinary insisted upon and an appeal if necessary , be professional at all times , if the nature of the offense is a slam dunk for management then acknowledge it but go for damage limitation , a dismissal but with a good reference for the employee is better than nowt .

Small steps , a healthy relationship built up over a period of time and an increase in membership gives the opportunity to negotiate for pay bargaining .

Half a dozen knocking the managers door down flashing union cards and banging on the table shouting we want a 15% pay rise may not be a great idea .

Companies miss a trick today in my opinion , collective dialogue in the work place can be very positive for both sides of the debate leading to an increase in production , appreciation of Health and Safety and a more harmonious work culture .

[tyke1962]

Anyone thinking of becoming a shop steward I'd advise the following .

1 , Know your stuff , know the company's handbook and especially rules around discipline backwards , your members pay their subs and they should expect the best representation at all times .

2 , Do the courses the union provide , not only are they interesting , challenging , rewarding , you'll need em .

3 , Be assertive but don't be a clever bstrd , back your debates up with facts , employment law from a position of best practice .

4 , You are well within your rights to have a word with the serial Monday morning knocker , " don't put you and me in an impossible postion " puts potential fires out more than not .

5 , finally , never ever ever , sit directly across from the main manager in meetings , discipline matters or pay talks if you can , it lends itself to a direct opponent and can be seen as confrontational from a psychological aspect .

Sit at the sides or hope for a round table   

[Filo]

Anyone thinking of becoming a shop steward I'd advise the following .

1 , Know your stuff , know the company's handbook and especially rules around discipline backwards , your members pay their subs and they should expect the best representation at all times .

2 , Do the courses the union provide , not only are they interesting , challenging , rewarding , you'll need em .

3 , Be assertive but don't be a clever bstrd , back your debates up with facts , employment law from a position of best practice .

4 , You are well within your rights to have a word with the serial Monday morning knocker , " don't put you and me in an impossible postion " puts potential fires out more than not .

5 , finally , never ever ever , sit directly across from the main manager in meetings , discipline matters or pay talks if you can , it lends itself to a direct opponent and can be seen as confrontational from a psychological aspect .

Sit at the sides or hope for a round table   

Being an ex shop steward myself, you’ve missed a crucial point in my opinion, don’t take bullshit or the manager dominate you, be assertive but calm. I had the manager asking the supervisor where I was working, so he could avoid me, because he knew more often than not I would pull him up on something. I ambushed him a few times

[DonnyOsmond]

  A union is as strong as its members Syd, do you think the me me me generations have got it in them to stick up for what they think is right?

Aren't Conservatives/Republicans the "me me me" people?

[Janso]

  A union is as strong as its members Syd, do you think the me me me generations have got it in them to stick up for what they think is right?

Aren't Conservatives/Republicans the "me me me" people?

Got to love the irony in someone crowing about how much money he's made off Brexit - someone part of the generation who pulled up the ladder behind them - calling anyone else the "me me me generations".

[SydneyRover]

And this is why unions are needed to restore the balance

''Top UK bosses are paid 115 times more than average worker, analysis finds
Vast gap in earnings described as ‘unfair’ and ‘repugnant’ by trade union leaders''

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/06/top-uk-bosses-are-paid-115-times-more-than-average-worker-analysis-finds

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

And this is why unions are needed to restore the balance

''Top UK bosses are paid 115 times more than average worker, analysis finds
Vast gap in earnings described as ‘unfair’ and ‘repugnant’ by trade union leaders''

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/06/top-uk-bosses-are-paid-115-times-more-than-average-worker-analysis-finds

Do you want the best or do you want to lose them?  Of course the union leaders are quite happy on their 6 figure salaries also.

[SydneyRover]

It's debatable bfyp, if all CEOs were paid half with the rest going towards better conditions for the workforce would the CEOs be only half as good. This has been a trend for a couple of decades.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's debatable bfyp, if all CEOs were paid half with the rest going towards better conditions for the workforce would the CEOs be only half as good. This has been a trend for a couple of decades.

No they probably would not, but they may well be working for a competitor or elsewhere completely and you then have a leader who isn't the best fit. A good CEO can be worth many times salary, a bad.....

[drfchound]

Would Gavin stay with us if we halved his salary?

[SydneyRover]

it wasn't the proposition hound

[drfchound]

I was backing up the points made by bfyp in his last post.

[SydneyRover]

this link shows how much CEO par has risen, has their competence grown at the same rate? the argument is all CEOs of public companies need a hair cut, not individuals.

If you own the company, provided you pay your workers all legal entitilements you can pay yourself what you wish, but in publicly owned companies there should be limits and now they are forced to publish the CEO-workers ratio maybe we will see some long overdue change.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_ratio

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Sorry but why should their be a limit? If that's the going rate it's the going rate?  There's many jobs with disproportionate salaries (including my own field) but if there aren't many with your skillset you will earn more.

If you put in a cap in the UK that only works if every country does it, which will never ever happen.

[SydneyRover]

Because some of the pay CEO's get is obsceen, simple as that bfyp. There is and army of poor and working poor and people are living on subsistence wages. Do you not see this as wrong, productivity has risen but wages haven't, why?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Yes I see it as unfortunate, but it's completely unavoidable.  I dislike it, however I also understand the way it works and it being unavoidable. 

Is it right a nurse or policeman earns 20k and a recruitment consultant over 100k?

The hard fact of the matter is there's very little we can do about it, probably nothing.

[SydneyRover]

If the UK wants to level up as indeed a lot of countries do then this has to be part of the process to give more opportunity to those on the bottom rungs or not even on the ladder.

[i_ateallthepies]

Yes I see it as unfortunate, but it's completely unavoidable.  I dislike it, however I also understand the way it works and it being unavoidable. 

Is it right a nurse or policeman earns 20k and a recruitment consultant over 100k?

The hard fact of the matter is there's very little we can do about it, probably nothing.

Unavoidable?  Complete load of bullshit.  The obscene levels of pay now taken by corporate bosses have grown in the last 20 years.  Why do you suppose that is?  It wasn't always as bad as it is now, so clearly it can be controlled if there is the political will.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

A political will everywhere? You think that exists or ever will?

[SydneyRover]

byfp, you can see the results on US tv today what can happen when people are not given equality of opportunity, the wealth of a country should be shared amongst the population. The trump thing rose on the back of those in the rust belt states being ignored.

[drfchound]

Animal Farm.

[SydneyRover]

Hound, you equate people wanting to be able to earn a living to animal farm to pull themselve out of poverty to stop having to queue for food at a food bank and front up to charities to pay their bills to animal farm?

[drfchound]

Not at all.

[no eyed deer]

Some of these blue chip companies with fat cat salaries, pay little corporation tax etc.

Also pay minimum wage and the British tax payer end up topping wages with benefit. Only to find they are making billions.

Welcome to the new world.