The South African Virus

[EasyforDennis]

So we are banning all foreign nationals arriving by air from South Africa. Many people arrive in the UK on flights from Europe and the Middle East wiill have started their journeys in Sth Africa. How are we stopping these people?

[ravenrover]

I've obviously not been listening hard enough, when Hancockup came out with it this morning it was the 1st I knew about it. As said above not too difficult to get a flight via other countries

[Donnywolf]

Aye and if you have doubts about direct flights get Liar Johnsons dad with fix an itinerary for you

He managed Greece via Bulgaria maybe when direct flights to Greece were off limits

[drfchound]

When I went to Cape Town a few years back I flew from Humberside to Schiphol Amsterdam then on to SA.
Return journey via Schiphol again.

[silent majority]

But all arrivals into the U.K. must isolate for 10 days, produce a locator form and have a negative pcr test issued within 72 hours of travelling.

Pretty much the same as every other country in the world, so why is that an issue?

[EasyforDennis]

Well if you think that is going to work why are we banning direct flights from Sth Africa?

[ravenrover]

I think the isolation is the problem did I hear that only 3 in 100 are actually checked?

[silent majority]

Well if you think that is going to work why are we banning direct flights from Sth Africa?

Strange response, seems to work for other countries.

We went through the exact same procedure last December.

It has worked exceptionally well in countries that we are operating in. My son, who is due to fly to the Cayman islands shortly is having to go through the same procedure and in addition to isolating in a hotel has to wear an ankle locator so that the authorities will be informed if the isolation is broken. That can work for small islands but inflating that to many thousands might not be so easy.

[Filo]

Well if you think that is going to work why are we banning direct flights from Sth Africa?

Strange response, seems to work for other countries.

We went through the exact same procedure last December.

It has worked exceptionally well in countries that we are operating in. My son, who is due to fly to the Cayman islands shortly is having to go through the same procedure and in addition to isolating in a hotel has to wear an ankle locator so that the authorities will be informed if the isolation is broken. That can work for small islands but inflating that to many thousands might not be so easy.

Just like being on a tag, that works for many thousands throughout the Country now

[ravenrover]

I heard this morning that Australia for example are only allowing Aussies or family members back in and in limited numbers. They are told before boarding that they will not be allowed to leave the airport on arrival and will be taken to a secure hotel/accomodation. If they tested positive they are kept until negative by 2 seperate tests but for at least 10 days, they are then removed to other accomodation where they will then spend 14 days in quarantine. Covid free spend just the 14 days in quarantine. They wlll pay for the hotel/accomodation themselves which does not include meals which they have to arrange themselves ie deliveroo or whatever Aus has

[EasyforDennis]

Well if you think that is going to work why are we banning direct flights from Sth Africa?

Strange response, seems to work for other countries.

We went through the exact same procedure last December.

It has worked exceptionally well in countries that we are operating in. My son, who is due to fly to the Cayman islands shortly is having to go through the same procedure and in addition to isolating in a hotel has to wear an ankle locator so that the authorities will be informed if the isolation is broken. That can work for small islands but inflating that to many thousands might not be so easy.

Simple. Its not working because we are "asking" people to self isolate. We are now after almost a year possibly going to put people into forced strict isolation in hotels. This should have been done months ago but like everything the government do. Too little too late.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If you don't mind BB, I'll pass. Even by your standards, that is a truly bizarre branch off down the rabbit hole.

I've given you plenty of opportunity to explain why you only ever complain about pitical bias from one side of the spectrum and you've totally refused to address the issue. I think the point is made. You yourself are politically biased, but unprepared or unable to actually engage in discussing the substantive points raised, so instead you throw out insults and try to get discussion closed down.

I'm going to ignore you now if you don't mind, because this can't serve any further useful purpose.

[Bentley Bullet]

Oh, this is where you're hiding! From now on BST, YOU can answer MY questions. I'm replacing the Andrew Marr approach with the Andrew Neil one!

[silent majority]

Well if you think that is going to work why are we banning direct flights from Sth Africa?

Strange response, seems to work for other countries.

We went through the exact same procedure last December.

It has worked exceptionally well in countries that we are operating in. My son, who is due to fly to the Cayman islands shortly is having to go through the same procedure and in addition to isolating in a hotel has to wear an ankle locator so that the authorities will be informed if the isolation is broken. That can work for small islands but inflating that to many thousands might not be so easy.

Simple. Its not working because we are "asking" people to self isolate. We are now after almost a year possibly going to put people into forced strict isolation in hotels. This should have been done months ago but like everything the government do. Too little too late.

Why is proof of a pcr test not working?

If you can point me in the direction of some actual proof I'll accept your point.

[wilts rover]

I think EfD is saying that isolation isn't working SM. That's how I read it.

[EasyforDennis]

I think EfD is saying that isolation isn't working SM. That's how I read it.

Exactly.

[silent majority]

I think EfD is saying that isolation isn't working SM. That's how I read it.

Exactly.

But that's not been the discussion, under the new regulations brought in because of the SA virus we've seen direct flights banned, compulsory PCR testing and isolation which is now becoming compulsory with allocated hotels.

As I've repeated over and over, compulsory PCR testing has worked in other countries, why not here? I mentioned it in my original post, as below;

But all arrivals into the U.K. must isolate for 10 days, produce a locator form and have a negative pcr test issued within 72 hours of travelling.

Pretty much the same as every other country in the world, so why is that an issue?

[EasyforDennis]

I think EfD is saying that isolation isn't working SM. That's how I read it.

Exactly.

But that's not been the discussion, under the new regulations brought in because of the SA virus we've seen direct flights banned, compulsory PCR testing and isolation which is now becoming compulsory with allocated hotels.

As I've repeated over and over, compulsory PCR testing has worked in other countries, why not here? I mentioned it in my original post, as below;

But all arrivals into the U.K. must isolate for 10 days, produce a locator form and have a negative pcr test issued within 72 hours of travelling.

Pretty much the same as every other country in the world, so why is that an issue?

So you are quite confident that all those people will be 100% complying? People arent following lockdown rules in this country as it i. Many of those arriving in the UK will be the same. If you had seen tv this morning you would have seen that border control officials cannot cope now and it will only get worse. Many of those PCR forms are not in English and some may not even be genuine.

[silent majority]

I think EfD is saying that isolation isn't working SM. That's how I read it.

Exactly.

But that's not been the discussion, under the new regulations brought in because of the SA virus we've seen direct flights banned, compulsory PCR testing and isolation which is now becoming compulsory with allocated hotels.

As I've repeated over and over, compulsory PCR testing has worked in other countries, why not here? I mentioned it in my original post, as below;

But all arrivals into the U.K. must isolate for 10 days, produce a locator form and have a negative pcr test issued within 72 hours of travelling.

Pretty much the same as every other country in the world, so why is that an issue?

So you are quite confident that all those people will be 100% complying? People arent following lockdown rules in this country as it i. Many of those arriving in the UK will be the same. If you had seen tv this morning you would have seen that border control officials cannot cope now and it will only get worse. Many of those PCR forms are not in English and some may not even be genuine.

Seriously EfD, if you want to wake up every morning and look for the negative in this world go ahead, be my guest.

It's one of the main reasons I hardly contribute in the Off Topic section, everybody here seems to be hell bent on being outraged at everything, all the time. I just find it a waste of time and effort.

[EasyforDennis]

I think EfD is saying that isolation isn't working SM. That's how I read it.

Exactly.

But that's not been the discussion, under the new regulations brought in because of the SA virus we've seen direct flights banned, compulsory PCR testing and isolation which is now becoming compulsory with allocated hotels.

As I've repeated over and over, compulsory PCR testing has worked in other countries, why not here? I mentioned it in my original post, as below;

But all arrivals into the U.K. must isolate for 10 days, produce a locator form and have a negative pcr test issued within 72 hours of travelling.

Pretty much the same as every other country in the world, so why is that an issue?

So you are quite confident that all those people will be 100% complying? People arent following lockdown rules in this country as it i. Many of those arriving in the UK will be the same. If you had seen tv this morning you would have seen that border control officials cannot cope now and it will only get worse. Many of those PCR forms are not in English and some may not even be genuine.

Seriously EfD, if you want to wake up every morning and look for the negative in this world go ahead, be my guest.

It's one of the main reasons I hardly contribute in the Off Topic section, everybody here seems to be hell bent on being outraged at everything, all the time. I just find it a waste of time and effort.

If you think everything is fine and the government are doing a great job then you probably are better off not contributing to the off topic section and not wasting your valuable time.

[belton rover]

Is that really what you think the purpose of ‘Off Topic’ is, Easy?

Or do you mean that is what it has become?

[silent majority]

I think EfD is saying that isolation isn't working SM. That's how I read it.

Exactly.

But that's not been the discussion, under the new regulations brought in because of the SA virus we've seen direct flights banned, compulsory PCR testing and isolation which is now becoming compulsory with allocated hotels.

As I've repeated over and over, compulsory PCR testing has worked in other countries, why not here? I mentioned it in my original post, as below;

But all arrivals into the U.K. must isolate for 10 days, produce a locator form and have a negative pcr test issued within 72 hours of travelling.

Pretty much the same as every other country in the world, so why is that an issue?

So you are quite confident that all those people will be 100% complying? People arent following lockdown rules in this country as it i. Many of those arriving in the UK will be the same. If you had seen tv this morning you would have seen that border control officials cannot cope now and it will only get worse. Many of those PCR forms are not in English and some may not even be genuine.

Seriously EfD, if you want to wake up every morning and look for the negative in this world go ahead, be my guest.

It's one of the main reasons I hardly contribute in the Off Topic section, everybody here seems to be hell bent on being outraged at everything, all the time. I just find it a waste of time and effort.

If you think everything is fine and the government are doing a great job then you probably are better off not contributing to the off topic section and not wasting your valuable time.

Well now you're putting words in my mouth, I never said any of that or implied that either. The only point I've argued is that other countries have successfully applied the compulsory PCR test to people arriving in their countries. For some reason you want to make the argument about this current government, so, as I say, be my guest.

If you can't stay on topic then we're better off leaving it.

[albie]

The Times are reporting that SAGE told the government to lock down the borders, but Coco chose not to;
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sage-warned-no-10-over-south-african-covid-variant-weeks-ago-mwr7gs62x

Paywall on The Times, so here is the text:

Sage met on January 21 and discussed how to reduce the importation of mutant strains of coronavirus. Minutes from the meeting state: “The emergence of new variants of concern around the world presents a rationale for attempting to reduce importation of even small numbers of infectious cases.

“This rationale will strengthen if new variants emerge that are capable of immune escape. Measures would be likely to delay importation of these variants rather than prevent them altogether.”

The scientists state that stopping the arrival of new variants will be “most important” when the prevalence of the virus is low in Britain.

“No intervention, other than a complete, pre-emptive closure of borders, or the mandatory quarantine of all visitors upon arrival in designated facilities, irrespective of testing history, can get close to fully preventing the importation of new cases or new variants,” the minutes say. “Reactive, geographically targeted travel bans cannot be relied upon to stop importation of new variants due to the lag between the emergence and identification of variants of concern, as well as the potential for indirect travel via a third country.”

Hancock has previously said that other countries may fail to spot new variants. Patel argued last week for closure of the borders while preparations were made for the quarantining of all travellers. Instead Johnson announced that hotel quarantine would be limited to 30 high-risk countries amid warnings by the travel industry that a blanket approach would be “catastrophic”.

[ravenrover]

Apparently it is a full report giving consideration to all aspects of controlling the SA virus not just hotel isolation. It would appear any isolated point can be taken totally out of context without quoting other points within the report to offset the argument

[selby]

  Just listened, yes on talkradio while walking the dog, to a virologist  who said that the South American, Kent, and South African, mutations are basically one and the same virus that is adapting to obstacles in place to do what virus's do to attack the human body.
  The geographical labels put on them because of where they were first detected  somewhat gives a false impression as it would be possible for it to basically develop the same in England as South Africa, the common denominator and main breeding grounds being the more populace areas.

[albie]

Government now pushing back on the Times report;
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-dismissed-sage-warning-23425708?111=

Best to publish the SAGE minutes, then any confusion is sorted.

[wilts rover]

  Just listened, yes on talkradio while walking the dog, to a virologist  who said that the South American, Kent, and South African, mutations are basically one and the same virus that is adapting to obstacles in place to do what virus's do to attack the human body.
  The geographical labels put on them because of where they were first detected  somewhat gives a false impression as it would be possible for it to basically develop the same in England as South Africa, the common denominator and main breeding grounds being the more populace areas.

Yes, apparently it already has done. Further mutations of the 'Kent' variant are looking very similar to that found in South Africa:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55900625