Promotion ! Who doesn’t want it ?

[turnbull for england]

We appear to be ready off the pitch now.  SM has said about the works that have gone on behind the scenes. This may be more important to staying up than the 11 that get us there

[Spud]

League 1 is where life is hardest for football clubs. The revenue streams just aren't there, away fans don't travel in consistently high numbers (admittedly less of an issue this weird season), off pitch revenues fall significantly.

The championship, whilst having its own issues, particularly around inequality with parachute payments, etc, is a much better league for a club like us. 

My problem with the championship is that the last time we were there I found some of the teams we faced employed spoiling tactics too often which made for some boring games. Too many teams just desparate not to lose, maybe just stay tight and see if they can nick a goal, rather than looking to go all out to win.

Agreed, but I think we'd be mad to not want to get there.

I think we all want to see Rovers grow the fanbase long-term. I think a run of years where we are in the Championship, or even yo-yoing between the Champ and L1 would surely create some buzz and excitement around the place and complement the work going on in the community to expand the fanbase, and make us a bigger and stronger club as a whole.

This, for me, well summed up. It's got to be about building the fan base & breaking the cycle of losing local younger support to other bigger clubs

As for the finance perspective, obviously there's much more revenue to be had but wasn't it said somewhere that the owners had more shortfall to make up when we're in the Championship?

It's actually less shortfall due to the increased revenues.

Staying in LG1 is harder because of the increased expenditure over and above what you'd pay out in LG2, and yet the income streams are little different.

Good to hear that & put that theory to bed. Can't argue that anyone at the club aren't aiming at promotion, what a time for us all.

[BillyStubbsTears]

In terms of enjoyment of games, I honestly couldn't care less which division we are in.

What I want is the visceral heart-in-mouth feeling of games mattering. So I want us to win the key matches, when the chips are down, because of what it means at that moment, not because of where we will be the following season.

[sha66y]

Good positive responses and all wanting the same thing.....however!

EXPECTATIONS on the Manager, the Owners and the actual team will be immense,

Being in the Championship has its undoubted merits, but staying their can bring all kinds of pain, like being beaten week in week out!

at the moment I look forward to playing teams with a feeling that we are better placed to get a result, whereas if we get promoted I will see every game as a “ I hope we get something” game!

I think I would like the rovers to be a team that is always up there or thereabouts in league one........the Championship bloody frightens me!

But if we are to get to the promised land I will remain positive no matter who is having a melt down...

Didn't you enjoy being in the Championship a few years ago?

I enjoyed the getting there, the newness of being there and the scalps we took ...
then the reality kicked in and we just couldn’t compete financially anymore....this board turned into a place of blame......

then I went to the Desert for a few years and missed a couple of relegations,

Now I approach the game as a supporter much differently....

[sha66y]

I’ve always thought we are a third tier club with aspirations for the Championship like in 07/08 - if we do go up this season we are better placed than we were in 2013 when we disposed of Flynn then spent an age in appointing Dickov who was a disaster - this time we have Big Darren who has experience of managing in the division albeit not on a shoestring & would anticipate attracting the very best loanees possible to play for DM whereas nobody touched us previously in the Championship with Dickov because our hard won reputation for competence was shot to pieces when we jumped into bed with McKay.

I tend to agree, we do appear better equip to adapt to the rigours of the championship especially with a solid Loan initiative in place..

[i_ateallthepies]

I certainly want to see us promoted to the Championship and become established and sustainable there.  I have no desire to see us in the Premier League, too far removed from the common man in its values and as others have commented, my sole desire - which ever division we are in - is to look forward to each game with eager anticipation of being competitive and at least evens we get the three points.  In the Premier League that simply would not be the case.

[graingrover]

I think the whole club deserves promotion .Moreover we are a stronger more professional club since last time .Listening to the two SOD in depth interviews on A League of his own it reveals the strengths and weaknesses of SOD in the eyes of his players of that team .It strikes me that Darren would be much more ambitious at consolidating us as a long term recognised Championship side and he would no doubt  attract loanees of an even high pedigree at that level than we could have done in the past .

[tyke1962]

I’ve always thought we are a third tier club with aspirations for the Championship like in 07/08 - if we do go up this season we are better placed than we were in 2013 when we disposed of Flynn then spent an age in appointing Dickov who was a disaster - this time we have Big Darren who has experience of managing in the division albeit not on a shoestring & would anticipate attracting the very best loanees possible to play for DM whereas nobody touched us previously in the Championship with Dickov because our hard won reputation for competence was shot to pieces when we jumped into bed with McKay.

I tend to agree, we do appear better equip to adapt to the rigours of the championship especially with a solid Loan initiative in place..

Just my opinion but the loan initiative in the championship would be a significantly different animal to what you enjoy in league one .

The players the PL clubs allow to leave on loan to the championship are generally far more developed than the one's loaned to league one and two which is obviously understandable .

That in itself is going to be difficult for Rovers because the competition for these young talented lads is very competitive amongst championship clubs .

I dare say this could be intensified next season due to the present financial climate , when you are fighting with Cardiff , Forest or Derby for a young lad from Villa it's going to be tough to get the lad or even his parent club to agree to with all due respect .

There's also the problem of loan fees payable to PL clubs , Cardiff have paid Liverpool a kings ransom for the services of Harry Wilson this season .

Moving on from young players there's also the problem of having three or four in the squad with decent experience , as my club found out the hard way a bunch of kids in the championship get eaten alive and it's due to the recent recruitment of more experienced heads that's improved our championship position .

Finally the £8m sky tv revenue looks attractive when you get peanuts in league one but unfortunately it's absolutely no where near enough to bridge the gap in quality between league one and the Championship .

I sincerely do not wish to burst anyone's balloon on here and simply speak from following a club who have had several different strategies since 2006 in an attempt in getting a foothold at this level on a modest budget .

It's massively difficult it really is and we been promoted twice from League One in fairly recent times with good teams , very good teams and still struggled with the Championship demands .

[dknward2]

Going up will be the only way of keeping Darren Moore here long term. More players will want to join and play for DM to improve

[scawsby steve]

I’ve always thought we are a third tier club with aspirations for the Championship like in 07/08 - if we do go up this season we are better placed than we were in 2013 when we disposed of Flynn then spent an age in appointing Dickov who was a disaster - this time we have Big Darren who has experience of managing in the division albeit not on a shoestring & would anticipate attracting the very best loanees possible to play for DM whereas nobody touched us previously in the Championship with Dickov because our hard won reputation for competence was shot to pieces when we jumped into bed with McKay.

I tend to agree, we do appear better equip to adapt to the rigours of the championship especially with a solid Loan initiative in place..

Just my opinion but the loan initiative in the championship would be a significantly different animal to what you enjoy in league one .

The players the PL clubs allow to leave on loan to the championship are generally far more developed than the one's loaned to league one and two which is obviously understandable .

That in itself is going to be difficult for Rovers because the competition for these young talented lads is very competitive amongst championship clubs .

I dare say this could be intensified next season due to the present financial climate , when you are fighting with Cardiff , Forest or Derby for a young lad from Villa it's going to be tough to get the lad or even his parent club to agree to with all due respect .

There's also the problem of loan fees payable to PL clubs , Cardiff have paid Liverpool a kings ransom for the services of Harry Wilson this season .

Moving on from young players there's also the problem of having three or four in the squad with decent experience , as my club found out the hard way a bunch of kids in the championship get eaten alive and it's due to the recent recruitment of more experienced heads that's improved our championship position .

Finally the £8m sky tv revenue looks attractive when you get peanuts in league one but unfortunately it's absolutely no where near enough to bridge the gap in quality between league one and the Championship .

I sincerely do not wish to burst anyone's balloon on here and simply speak from following a club who have had several different strategies since 2006 in an attempt in getting a foothold at this level on a modest budget .

It's massively difficult it really is and we been promoted twice from League One in fairly recent times with good teams , very good teams and still struggled with the Championship demands .

A good post, Tyke. However, regarding the 4th paragraph, we're already competing with huge ex-Premier League clubs in the likes of Sunderland, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Hull, and Charlton; and doing it successfully.

[tyke1962]

I’ve always thought we are a third tier club with aspirations for the Championship like in 07/08 - if we do go up this season we are better placed than we were in 2013 when we disposed of Flynn then spent an age in appointing Dickov who was a disaster - this time we have Big Darren who has experience of managing in the division albeit not on a shoestring & would anticipate attracting the very best loanees possible to play for DM whereas nobody touched us previously in the Championship with Dickov because our hard won reputation for competence was shot to pieces when we jumped into bed with McKay.

I tend to agree, we do appear better equip to adapt to the rigours of the championship especially with a solid Loan initiative in place..

Just my opinion but the loan initiative in the championship would be a significantly different animal to what you enjoy in league one .

The players the PL clubs allow to leave on loan to the championship are generally far more developed than the one's loaned to league one and two which is obviously understandable .

That in itself is going to be difficult for Rovers because the competition for these young talented lads is very competitive amongst championship clubs .

I dare say this could be intensified next season due to the present financial climate , when you are fighting with Cardiff , Forest or Derby for a young lad from Villa it's going to be tough to get the lad or even his parent club to agree to with all due respect .

There's also the problem of loan fees payable to PL clubs , Cardiff have paid Liverpool a kings ransom for the services of Harry Wilson this season .

Moving on from young players there's also the problem of having three or four in the squad with decent experience , as my club found out the hard way a bunch of kids in the championship get eaten alive and it's due to the recent recruitment of more experienced heads that's improved our championship position .

Finally the £8m sky tv revenue looks attractive when you get peanuts in league one but unfortunately it's absolutely no where near enough to bridge the gap in quality between league one and the Championship .

I sincerely do not wish to burst anyone's balloon on here and simply speak from following a club who have had several different strategies since 2006 in an attempt in getting a foothold at this level on a modest budget .

It's massively difficult it really is and we been promoted twice from League One in fairly recent times with good teams , very good teams and still struggled with the Championship demands .

A good post, Tyke. However, regarding the 4th paragraph, we're already competing with huge ex-Premier League clubs in the likes of Sunderland, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Hull, and Charlton; and doing it successfully.

Steve , there's probably a very good number of young lads at PL clubs who can be effective in league one so rather than compete it's more a case of there's enough to go round with all due respect , it's then just a case of having the right infrastructure and environment for them to be successful , none of the bigger clubs in league one you've listed tick many boxes , they probably wouldn't be in league one if they did .

In the championship that number drops significantly and so the competition to sign the cream intensifies considerably .

All I'm basically saying is that the model your club deploys in league one with loans maybe very difficult to replicate in the championship and will possibly also be compounded by the pandemic .

Rotherham are possibly your best comparison because my club doesn't do loans at all .

I'm struggling to think of one loan Rotherham have brought in that stands out when they are in the championship .

Their latest one was young George Hirst from Leicester who is way way off the championship pace .

It's incredibly difficult Steve to bridge the quality gap using loans when fresh up from league one when you are with all due respect a smaller club .

When it's your core strategy its probably even more difficult .

I'm not saying it can't be done because football surprises us all and always will do .

[sedwardsdrfc]

Swansea make good use of loans in the Championship, their approach is similar to ours just a big leap up in quality. Agree we'll be priced out the market for plenty of the most sought after ones but we had Jacob Ramsey last season, who is clearly championship quality, and this season we've got Sims, who again is easily championship quality. Having lots of loanees isn't my favourite approach but the fact we've got players of that quality in while in league 1 means we should be able to keep it up

[tyke1962]

Swansea make good use of loans in the Championship, their approach is similar to ours just a big leap up in quality. Agree we'll be priced out the market for plenty of the most sought after ones but we had Jacob Ramsey last season, who is clearly championship quality, and this season we've got Sims, who again is easily championship quality. Having lots of loanees isn't my favourite approach but the fact we've got players of that quality in while in league 1 means we should be able to keep it up

The question of why Swansea attract high quality loans is more the point , it's because they have a history of recent PL football and can pay the loan fees attached to securing Brewster as they did last season .

The brand in the championship goes a long way , the really big PL like to loan lads out to the big championship clubs , it's just the way it is it seems .

In my time when we did loans and in the championship we did very well with a young Kieran Trippier and Danny Drinkwater and that's about it to be honest who you could say made a significant contribution and kept us in the championship .

We've had a young Chris Wood and Jay Rodriguez who were total shyte , we sent Chris Wood back to Leicester before his time came to an end .

The very best loans were always in league one , Ashley Fletcher , Josh Brownhill , Ben Pearson and Kevin Long .

Which kind of emphasises my point .

[RoversAlias]

I don't see us having a problem attracting good loanees with Darren Moore as manager, he has an excellent reputation for developing young players and both he and the club have fostered relationships with clubs through previous loanees who have thrived. Look at Aston Villa with Jacob Ramsey as one example, or Arsenal sending us John-Jules after Ben Sheaf thrived last season.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I was pleased we didn't get promoted last season, and the season before. We didn't have the quality as a basis for promotion. For a club like us, what will count is the team spirit, the sum of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, and I think this season we have enough quality to take us to that place and hold on for at east that one crucial bedding in season.

Promotion without all this becomes futile and I believe does nothing for us long term - more like a y-yo club than a YO-yo club.

As for the loan issue Tyke very clearly raises, yes it will be a whole new ball game except with the overall ethos of the club and especially with Darren Moore we have the kind of quality that has proven to benefit players. It won't be easy but I think the situation for us is a step above how Tyke paints it.

[Chris Black come back]

Who knows what their personal intentions are, but if we did go up this season, I think we might have a decent crack at signing Sims and Smith, less so Balcombe, Richards and J-J.

[Donnyjim]

I always want to see my team promoted. Good, bad or ugly. I don’t care. We are doing well at the moment and I am enjoying it, albeit from a distance.

[PDX_Rover]

I think we are better positioned than ever for life in the second tier. We have the infrastructure and the management.

[BobG]

In terms of enjoyment of games, I honestly couldn't care less which division we are in.

What I want is the visceral heart-in-mouth feeling of games mattering. So I want us to win the key matches, when the chips are down, because of what it means at that moment, not because of where we will be the following season.

Hear hear Billy! I loved the Conference just as much as any other division. More actually cos you can stand up and walk round the ground at half time in the conference.

BobG

[tyke1962]

I was pleased we didn't get promoted last season, and the season before. We didn't have the quality as a basis for promotion. For a club like us, what will count is the team spirit, the sum of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, and I think this season we have enough quality to take us to that place and hold on for at east that one crucial bedding in season.

Promotion without all this becomes futile and I believe does nothing for us long term - more like a y-yo club than a YO-yo club.

As for the loan issue Tyke very clearly raises, yes it will be a whole new ball game except with the overall ethos of the club and especially with Darren Moore we have the kind of quality that has proven to benefit players. It won't be easy but I think the situation for us is a step above how Tyke paints it.

I sincerely don't want to be the bogey man on here and I've absolutely no axe to grind with Rovers what's so ever .

However Big Daz isn't the only one with connections , almost 70% of next seasons championship line up will be in the loan market .

At this moment in history there's absolutely nothing wrong with how Rovers have gone about things this season , my point is and I'm not the author of this thread by the way is how difficult it is to replicate the current model in to championship survival .

[BobG]

If we do go up, I wonder what the odds are on Darren Moore still being at Rovers 12 months later?

Cheers

BobG

[RobTheRover]

The question is only coning up on some of the Rovers Facebook groups.

To be fair, it's kids asking it who haven't got a clue how football is or works.  Back to FIFA and Footy Manager.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I was pleased we didn't get promoted last season, and the season before. We didn't have the quality as a basis for promotion. For a club like us, what will count is the team spirit, the sum of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, and I think this season we have enough quality to take us to that place and hold on for at east that one crucial bedding in season.

Promotion without all this becomes futile and I believe does nothing for us long term - more like a y-yo club than a YO-yo club.

As for the loan issue Tyke very clearly raises, yes it will be a whole new ball game except with the overall ethos of the club and especially with Darren Moore we have the kind of quality that has proven to benefit players. It won't be easy but I think the situation for us is a step above how Tyke paints it.

I sincerely don't want to be the bogey man on here and I've absolutely no axe to grind with Rovers what's so ever .

However Big Daz isn't the only one with connections , almost 70% of next seasons championship line up will be in the loan market .

At this moment in history there's absolutely nothing wrong with how Rovers have gone about things this season , my point is and I'm not the author of this thread by the way is how difficult it is to replicate the current model in to championship survival .

Don't get me wrong, I think your points are really inciteful and important, if not the bottom line for us. I can't see us getting by without good loans. I don't think it's just the connections of DM that count, it's his man management and the development that offers, not just the match experience for loanees. Maybe it would boil down to the club being able to offer more that way that's appealing to prem clubs than just cash and overall team ability, much as that does inevitably count. We'll see, and meanwhile there's the basic matter of getting there!

[Alan Southstand]

You make very valid points Tyke, but you are tending to overlook the importance of what we have here and that is a manager with a proven track record, who is highly thought of, even at the highest level. I know there’s the financial aspect to all of this and we probably can’t compete with the majority of sides in the Championship, but what price do you put on the right sort of development for good, up and coming, young players?

In reality, we may even tailor our loan ethos to suit the Championship demands for increased costs, who knows. We already have a good, solid core of players who can make the step up, I’m sure. Increasingly, there are good quality players who have drifted off club’s radars, for whatever reason, and find themselves out of work. We seem o have done quite well on that score very recently and that could well be employed again.

There are many different avenues to explore, some of which we’re certainly not privy to, but, again, we have a recruitment guy who is second to none, so we’ll see.

All the above is of no consequence, of course, if we don’t achieve promotion.

[silent majority]

Blackpool were promoted from the Championship to the EPL with a team of loanees, so it can be done.

[bobjimwilly]

Should we maybe be comparing ourselves to Brentford and aim to do what they've done?
Similar sized club/fan base to ours historically, currently sitting 5th in the Championship?

[tyke1962]

You make very valid points Tyke, but you are tending to overlook the importance of what we have here and that is a manager with a proven track record, who is highly thought of, even at the highest level. I know there’s the financial aspect to all of this and we probably can’t compete with the majority of sides in the Championship, but what price do you put on the right sort of development for good, up and coming, young players?

In reality, we may even tailor our loan ethos to suit the Championship demands for increased costs, who knows. We already have a good, solid core of players who can make the step up, I’m sure. Increasingly, there are good quality players who have drifted off club’s radars, for whatever reason, and find themselves out of work. We seem o have done quite well on that score very recently and that could well be employed again.

There are many different avenues to explore, some of which we’re certainly not privy to, but, again, we have a recruitment guy who is second to none, so we’ll see.

All the above is of no consequence, of course, if we don’t achieve promotion.

Alan I do feel the addition of three experienced players would massively help the young player model and the transition from league one to the Championship .

I'm not talking about world beaters here but good , experienced pro's who have enough ability to play at championship level .

They don't necessarily have to be from this country either , the signing of 29 years old Michael Sollbauer from Wolfsberger last January was instrumental in keeping us up and tightening us up at the back , huge influence on this young group is Michael and he didn't cost a fortunate by any means .

It can be done , there's no doubt about it but the Championship is also a very unforgiving league especially for young players still learning their trade and mistakes are severely punished , mistakes that don't get punished quite so much in league one .

Get the balance right even working with a modest budget and you've a chance .

[tyke1962]

Should we maybe be comparing ourselves to Brentford and aim to do what they've done?
Similar sized club/fan base to ours historically, currently sitting 5th in the Championship?

Well that's how I see things over here too , Brentford are definitely a club to aspire to be .

However its also worth pointing out they have sold every decent player they've had to create the revenue to be able to recruit very well and replace them .

It's taken time to get to the level they are at today and that's with possibly the best recruitment team in English football , Ollie Watkins bought from Exeter for £1.5m and sold for £30m is possibly the pick of the bunch .

If Rovers and Barnsley could be 70% of Brentford we'd we doing alright ..... to say the least .

[RoversAlias]

Brentford are another team also with a rich owner, just not one who always makes it known and obvious.

Their approach to the footballing side of things is impeccable though and it's only a matter of time before they're in the Premier League.