This Harry & Megan business

[Bentley Bullet]

RD.

Racial prejudice doesn't usually manifest itself as someone screaming "I'm going to have an unfair pop at you because you are black."

It usually manifests itself as someone having an unfair pop at someone who happens to be black, in a "I'm not racist!" deniable context.

I understand that, and admittedly only recently.

However, how do you prove it?
I dare say the person being racist, isn't even aware they are.

Also opens up any ethnic person to play the race card when they are legitimately
Criticised for doing something wrong.

How do you stop that?

This thing with Megan, has nothing to do with her race, despite her trying to make it so, I feel.

Conversations take place in every family of an unborn baby about how the baby will look, one aspect might well have been taken well out of context to suggest it’s racist, here are the sort of things everyday family’s would speculate about

Will the baby have ginger hair like it’s dad or darker hair like it’s mum?

Will the baby have fair skin like his dad or darker skin like his mum?

Will the baby be tall like his dad or shorter like his mum?


The list goes on and on, and no different to conversation in normal family’s, in my opinion they have played the race card massively, and due to the BLM stuff in America the Americans have bought it lock stock and barrel and Ophera has mad a few quid as well

Eggsf**kingzactly

[Getridorit]

RD.

Racial prejudice doesn't usually manifest itself as someone screaming "I'm going to have an unfair pop at you because you are black."

It usually manifests itself as someone having an unfair pop at someone who happens to be black, in a "I'm not racist!" deniable context.

I understand that, and admittedly only recently.

However, how do you prove it?
I dare say the person being racist, isn't even aware they are.

Also opens up any ethnic person to play the race card when they are legitimately
Criticised for doing something wrong.

How do you stop that?

This thing with Megan, has nothing to do with her race, despite her trying to make it so, I feel.

Conversations take place in every family of an unborn baby about how the baby will look, one aspect might well have been taken well out of context to suggest it’s racist, here are the sort of things everyday family’s would speculate about

Will the baby have ginger hair like it’s dad or darker hair like it’s mum?

Will the baby have fair skin like his dad or darker skin like his mum?

Will the baby be tall like his dad or shorter like his mum?


The list goes on and on, and no different to conversation in normal family’s, in my opinion they have played the race card massively, and due to the BLM stuff in America the Americans have bought it lock stock and barrel and Ophera has mad a few quid as well

Fantastically put Sir!!!

Made me cringe a bit how a billionaire was interviewing 2 privileged millionaires, and talking about how they have been oppressed.

[MachoMadness]

RD.

Racial prejudice doesn't usually manifest itself as someone screaming "I'm going to have an unfair pop at you because you are black."

It usually manifests itself as someone having an unfair pop at someone who happens to be black, in a "I'm not racist!" deniable context.

I understand that, and admittedly only recently.

However, how do you prove it?
I dare say the person being racist, isn't even aware they are.

Also opens up any ethnic person to play the race card when they are legitimately
Criticised for doing something wrong.

How do you stop that?

This thing with Megan, has nothing to do with her race, despite her trying to make it so, I feel.

Conversations take place in every family of an unborn baby about how the baby will look, one aspect might well have been taken well out of context to suggest it’s racist, here are the sort of things everyday family’s would speculate about

Will the baby have ginger hair like it’s dad or darker hair like it’s mum?

Will the baby have fair skin like his dad or darker skin like his mum?

Will the baby be tall like his dad or shorter like his mum?


The list goes on and on, and no different to conversation in normal family’s, in my opinion they have played the race card massively, and due to the BLM stuff in America the Americans have bought it lock stock and barrel and Ophera has mad a few quid as well

As a parent to one mixed race child with another on the way, I can safely say that if a white person expressed concern my child would be born too black, that would be extremely f**king racist and I'd make sure they knew about it!

[Getridorit]

RD.

Racial prejudice doesn't usually manifest itself as someone screaming "I'm going to have an unfair pop at you because you are black."

It usually manifests itself as someone having an unfair pop at someone who happens to be black, in a "I'm not racist!" deniable context.

I understand that, and admittedly only recently.

However, how do you prove it?
I dare say the person being racist, isn't even aware they are.

Also opens up any ethnic person to play the race card when they are legitimately
Criticised for doing something wrong.

How do you stop that?

This thing with Megan, has nothing to do with her race, despite her trying to make it so, I feel.

Conversations take place in every family of an unborn baby about how the baby will look, one aspect might well have been taken well out of context to suggest it’s racist, here are the sort of things everyday family’s would speculate about

Will the baby have ginger hair like it’s dad or darker hair like it’s mum?

Will the baby have fair skin like his dad or darker skin like his mum?

Will the baby be tall like his dad or shorter like his mum?


The list goes on and on, and no different to conversation in normal family’s, in my opinion they have played the race card massively, and due to the BLM stuff in America the Americans have bought it lock stock and barrel and Ophera has mad a few quid as well

As a parent to one mixed race child with another on the way, I can safely say that if a white person expressed concern my child would be born too black, that would be extremely f**king racist and I'd make sure they knew about it!

That's fair enough if someone was "expressing concern"
But the point Filo was making is merely talking about the child's features in the same way as eye colour, and hair etc.
Which categorically isn't racist.

[Bentley Bullet]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Meghan claim the question of the baby's colour occurred when she was pregnant with Archie, but later, when Harry was asked about the incident he said it happened early on when the couple had just met.

If I heard that right, are they both telling the truth?

[River Don]

But did Prince Charles (£ to a penny it was him) use a form of words like that MM?

He was clearly wondering about the colour of the child, no question that's racist but you have to take into account his age and how the older generations often misstep when navigating this minefield.

My other half is South Asian and God knows my parents have said things they didn't mean that have been racist. I have all on trying to get my Mum to stop calling black people coloureds for instance. She doesn't mean to be racist, she's in her 80s and can't remember the politically correct way to phrase things.

Ultimately I think we can discount the idea that the British Press is racist. In this day and age media organisations cannot afford to be, the idea is ludicrous and they will never make that stick.

The idea that there have been tensions and jealousies in the Royal family and that some of it has got in the press through aides is only too plausible. The idea that older members of the royal family may have racist views or outdated views or maybe don't express their opinion on the matter well, that's only to be expected. Do I think Prince Charles is prejudice or really a racist? No, I don't think he is for a minute.

[GazLaz]

There are no winners here. Hazza and Meg are kitsons and the royal family are kitsons. The media are kitsons and Piers Morgan is a kitson.

[Getridorit]

But did Prince Charles (£ to a penny it was him) use a form of words like that MM?

He was clearly wondering about the colour of the child, no question that's racist but you have to take into account his age and how the older generations often misstep when navigating this minefield.

My other half is South Asian and God knows my parents have said things they didn't mean that have been racist. I have all on trying to get my Mum to stop calling black people coloureds for instance. She doesn't mean to be racist, she's in her 80s and can't remember the politically correct way to phrase things.

Ultimately I think we can discount the idea that the British Press is racist. In this day and age media organisations cannot afford to be, the idea is ludicrous and they will never make that stick.

The idea that there have been tensions and jealousies in the Royal family and that some of it has got in the press through aides is only too plausible. The idea that older members of the royal family may have racist views or outdated views or maybe don't express their opinion on the matter well, that's only to be expected. Do I think Prince Charles is prejudice or really a racist? No, I don't think he is for a minute.

But "wondering about the colour of the child" surely to god isn't racist.
In the same way as wondering about hair, eye colour, height, build and who he will take after?

Excited questions every family ever has talked about.

[River Don]

To me wondering about the colour of the child isn't really racist but it depends how it was phrased. Wondering if the public would accept a black Prince is racist.

It depends what exactly was said, and what exactly was meant. It is a minefield.

Harry has said he won't discuss it, so we don't know. We do know he stopped talking to his dad for a while.

[keyser_soze]

To me wondering about the colour of the child isn't really racist but it depends how it was phrased. Wondering if the public would accept a black Prince is racist.

It depends what exactly was said, and what exactly was meant. It is a minefield.

Harry has said he won't discuss it, so we don't know. We do know he stopped talking to his dad for a while.

Meghan was vague about when it was questioned but made it sound like it was a direct question relevant to Archie. Harry when pushed clearly said it was questioned before they were married, ie 'what will the kids look like if you have them with her' - sounded far more sinister than just standard speculation about having Daddy's ginger hair or Mummy's eye colour.

[bobjimwilly]

I believe Harry told Meghan "there were concerns" the baby might be black - that is f**king racist.

[keyser_soze]

Apparently it has been clarified that the whole of the Royal Family was in a Pizza Express in Woking when the alleged comment was made.

[bobjimwilly]

But "wondering about the colour of the child" surely to god isn't racist.
In the same way as wondering about hair, eye colour, height, build and who he will take after?

Excited questions every family ever has talked about.

If you wonder whether a child will be black or white, why the f**k does it even matter? And if you do wonder shit like that, keep it to yourself. Whether you have racist intentions or not, it is casual racism. Wondering about a kids eye colour, or height, or hair colour isn't racist, because your not thinking about someones race.

ffs

Apparently it has been clarified that the whole of the Royal Family was in a Pizza Express in Woking when the alleged comment was made.

 

[River Don]

Yes, reading between the lines it appears Harry was asked if any children would be black or dark or brown. It suggest there was a question over whether this would be acceptable. Racist.

But we don't know the context or meaning or anything. For instance, was he wondering if that might be an issue with the public. Perhaps he wanted to know or would have asked how they should be handled in the media. Not so racist.

And even if he was saying I don't think we want black grandchildren, then was it from the point of view that it's just going to cause us all problems, are you sure you want to do this? Racist but not such bad racism as I don't want black kids in our family. Full stop.

[MachoMadness]

But did Prince Charles (£ to a penny it was him) use a form of words like that MM?

He was clearly wondering about the colour of the child, no question that's racist but you have to take into account his age and how the older generations often misstep when navigating this minefield.

My other half is South Asian and God knows my parents have said things they didn't mean that have been racist. I have all on trying to get my Mum to stop calling black people coloureds for instance. She doesn't mean to be racist, she's in her 80s and can't remember the politically correct way to phrase things.

Ultimately I think we can discount the idea that the British Press is racist. In this day and age media organisations cannot afford to be, the idea is ludicrous and they will never make that stick.

The idea that there have been tensions and jealousies in the Royal family and that some of it has got in the press through aides is only too plausible. The idea that older members of the royal family may have racist views or outdated views or maybe don't express their opinion on the matter well, that's only to be expected. Do I think Prince Charles is prejudice or really a racist? No, I don't think he is for a minute.

Well, we don't know it was Charles although I agree he's the most likely. You'd think any royal, with their links to the commonwealth, would know better. But maybe that's the problem - they're from a centuries-old bloodline which is to this day almost worshipped as a divine family, and those colonial attitudes are hard to unlearn.

I agree that people can misstep and say something inadvertently racist, without being actually racist themselves. God knows I'm not perfect and have put my foot in it before. The difference is I was actually able to listen why what I'd said was wrong and came out of it a better person. Too many will just immediately go on the defensive, throw their toys out the pram and whine about the race card instead of actually reflecting on what they've said. Too many take "you've said something racist" to be the end of the conversation, when really it should be the start. That's where the problem lies for me. And it's a problem being played out in the press as we speak. Are they interrogating what was actually said - the racist comments, the treatment of Meghan which was undoubtedly motivated by racism, the fact that she was suicidal? No - they're circling the wagons and looking after their own. It's also worth mentioning that our journalists are around 85% white, and a large proportion of them (I forget the exact figure) were educated in similar private institutions to the royals. They all shit in the same pot. There is no representation and balance in our press.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the racism of the press I'm afraid. The Mail, the Express and the Sun in particular all have a decades-long history of vile headlines and behaviour, and there's categorical evidence that they treat people of colour more harshly than white people. Do they print swastikas on the front page - no, but most racism is subtler than that. Surely as football fans we all know this better than anyone. Remember the treatment Sterling got? None of this is mentioning magazines like the Spectator, which has published actual neo-Nazis in the last couple of years, or that Guido Fawkes rag. It's messy, and getting into it involves having some uncomfortable conversations about Britain and British culture which people don't like having.

[bobjimwilly]

great post macho

[Getridorit]

But "wondering about the colour of the child" surely to god isn't racist.
In the same way as wondering about hair, eye colour, height, build and who he will take after?

Excited questions every family ever has talked about.

If you wonder whether a child will be black or white, why the f**k does it even matter? And if you do wonder shit like that, keep it to yourself. Whether you have racist intentions or not, it is casual racism. Wondering about a kids eye colour, or height, or hair colour isn't racist, because your not thinking about someones race.

ffs

Apparently it has been clarified that the whole of the Royal Family was in a Pizza Express in Woking when the alleged comment was made.

 

Your right, it doesn't matter one bit.
But neither does talking about potential eye or hair colour of a baby.
But families the world over still talk about it with excitement.

[keyser_soze]

But "wondering about the colour of the child" surely to god isn't racist.
In the same way as wondering about hair, eye colour, height, build and who he will take after?

Excited questions every family ever has talked about.

If you wonder whether a child will be black or white, why the f**k does it even matter? And if you do wonder shit like that, keep it to yourself. Whether you have racist intentions or not, it is casual racism. Wondering about a kids eye colour, or height, or hair colour isn't racist, because your not thinking about someones race.

ffs

Apparently it has been clarified that the whole of the Royal Family was in a Pizza Express in Woking when the alleged comment was made.

 

Your right, it doesn't matter one bit.
But neither does talking about potential eye or hair colour of a baby.
But families the world over still talk about it with excitement.

There's potentially two very different conversations here. And only Harry and AN Other know which one it was (or potentially where in the scale between the two is). Harry seemed to be suggesting the former, which is DEFINITELY racist.

'if you marry her we are concerned that any children you have will not be white'
'we can't wait to meet the baby and we wonder if his skin will be fair or dark, not that it matters either way to us'

[BillyStubbsTears]

Superb post MM.

And I couldn't agree more about the editors and leaing journalists in the gutter rags. They are almost exclusively public school and Oxbridge educated, but they deliberately dumb down and play & stoke up the prejudices of their readers. If individuals get chewed up and spat out as part of that process, or if societies get split, tough shit, as long as the money rolls in.

Reprehensible examples of humanity.

[Getridorit]

But "wondering about the colour of the child" surely to god isn't racist.
In the same way as wondering about hair, eye colour, height, build and who he will take after?

Excited questions every family ever has talked about.

If you wonder whether a child will be black or white, why the f**k does it even matter? And if you do wonder shit like that, keep it to yourself. Whether you have racist intentions or not, it is casual racism. Wondering about a kids eye colour, or height, or hair colour isn't racist, because your not thinking about someones race.

ffs

Apparently it has been clarified that the whole of the Royal Family was in a Pizza Express in Woking when the alleged comment was made.

 

Your right, it doesn't matter one bit.
But neither does talking about potential eye or hair colour of a baby.
But families the world over still talk about it with excitement.

There's potentially two very different conversations here. And only Harry and AN Other know which one it was (or potentially where in the scale between the two is). Harry seemed to be suggesting the former, which is DEFINITELY racist.

'if you marry her we are concerned that any children you have will not be white'
'we can't wait to meet the baby and we wonder if his skin will be fair or dark, not that it matters either way to us'

Completely agree ks.
I think some people are struggling to differentiate the two types of conversation here.

[Metalmicky]

Good post MM...

However, is there a slight irony that Harry was once pictured dressed as a Nazi for a fancy dress party....... and I recall he also was filmed calling a fellow cadet a 'raghead' during his time in service.  OK, he was young and I have no doubt that didn't mean to offend.... but shouldn't we judge all folk the same...?

To add - he also (reportedly) called an Asian army colleague (on film) a "Paki" back in his military days..... is that worse that what is purported to have been done?

[Filo]

RD.

Racial prejudice doesn't usually manifest itself as someone screaming "I'm going to have an unfair pop at you because you are black."

It usually manifests itself as someone having an unfair pop at someone who happens to be black, in a "I'm not racist!" deniable context.

I understand that, and admittedly only recently.

However, how do you prove it?
I dare say the person being racist, isn't even aware they are.

Also opens up any ethnic person to play the race card when they are legitimately
Criticised for doing something wrong.

How do you stop that?

This thing with Megan, has nothing to do with her race, despite her trying to make it so, I feel.

Conversations take place in every family of an unborn baby about how the baby will look, one aspect might well have been taken well out of context to suggest it’s racist, here are the sort of things everyday family’s would speculate about

Will the baby have ginger hair like it’s dad or darker hair like it’s mum?

Will the baby have fair skin like his dad or darker skin like his mum?

Will the baby be tall like his dad or shorter like his mum?


The list goes on and on, and no different to conversation in normal family’s, in my opinion they have played the race card massively, and due to the BLM stuff in America the Americans have bought it lock stock and barrel and Ophera has mad a few quid as well

As a parent to one mixed race child with another on the way, I can safely say that if a white person expressed concern my child would be born too black, that would be extremely f**king racist and I'd make sure they knew about it!

Apologies MM if you felt offended, it wasn’t my intention, for that, I was putting forward an argument of how a discussion MAY have gone, and how that discussion MAY have been interpreted, it is pure speculation.I am not, never have been and never will be a racist, but that doesn’t stop me thinking that sometimes the racist card is dished out too often to score a point

[Bentley Bullet]

It seems to me that the jury is still out on this. In this case, the Jurors are us. Unfortunately, we are supposed to be impartial and shouldn't know any of the witnesses or the defendants. If we weren't impartial or knew any witnesses or defendants, we would be removed from the panel.

It's clear that some of us are far from impartial, and they have made their minds up on judgement of it because they want it to be true more then they believe it to be.

[Bentley Bullet]

RD.

Racial prejudice doesn't usually manifest itself as someone screaming "I'm going to have an unfair pop at you because you are black."

It usually manifests itself as someone having an unfair pop at someone who happens to be black, in a "I'm not racist!" deniable context.

I understand that, and admittedly only recently.

However, how do you prove it?
I dare say the person being racist, isn't even aware they are.

Also opens up any ethnic person to play the race card when they are legitimately
Criticised for doing something wrong.

How do you stop that?

This thing with Megan, has nothing to do with her race, despite her trying to make it so, I feel.

Conversations take place in every family of an unborn baby about how the baby will look, one aspect might well have been taken well out of context to suggest it’s racist, here are the sort of things everyday family’s would speculate about

Will the baby have ginger hair like it’s dad or darker hair like it’s mum?

Will the baby have fair skin like his dad or darker skin like his mum?

Will the baby be tall like his dad or shorter like his mum?


The list goes on and on, and no different to conversation in normal family’s, in my opinion they have played the race card massively, and due to the BLM stuff in America the Americans have bought it lock stock and barrel and Ophera has mad a few quid as well

As a parent to one mixed race child with another on the way, I can safely say that if a white person expressed concern my child would be born too black, that would be extremely f**king racist and I'd make sure they knew about it!

Apologies MM if you felt offended, it wasn’t my intention, for that, I was putting forward an argument of how a discussion MAY have gone, and how that discussion MAY have been interpreted, it is pure speculation.I am not, never have been and never will be a racist, but that doesn’t stop me thinking that sometimes the racist card is dished out too often to score a point

Correct.

There are many of us who believe that treating everyone equal completely exonerates us from being racist. Unfortunately, it doesn't. An example is the Danny Baker case. The picture he used of Harry, Meghan and the baby as a monkey was supposed to portray them as circus animals in posh clothes. Baker said he didn't even realise Meghan was Black when he used the picture, and would have used one of Boris Johnson's, or even his own kid if he'd known.

[River Don]

MM,

Has Megan undoubtedly received poor treatment motivated by racism?  I think there is still room for some doubt about that. In the press at least I think the question isn't only, is it because I is black? But also questions like is it because I is up-staging the future queen? Is it because we have had a royal falling out?

In the past yes, the British press have behaved abominably but in this case I'm still struggling to see real racism. Certainly not obvious racism, they are having to dig around comparing one article to unrelated article published months ago and there are other possible explanations. Said a member of the royal staff... No newspapers are going to be prosecuted for racist treatment of Megan here.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

I'm all for treating people equally. But in this very thread, you have clear and unambiguous examples of the media not treating two similar women equally. Do you have any thoughts on that?

(PS: The Danny Baker situation was disgraceful. Never in a million years should he have been sacked for that.)

[Bentley Bullet]

What two women?

[River Don]

It didn't stop Orpah from using the Danny Baker story and a couple of headlines including the word Chimp up on screen to reinforce allegations that the British Press are racist though did it, BST?

[MachoMadness]

RD.

Racial prejudice doesn't usually manifest itself as someone screaming "I'm going to have an unfair pop at you because you are black."

It usually manifests itself as someone having an unfair pop at someone who happens to be black, in a "I'm not racist!" deniable context.

I understand that, and admittedly only recently.

However, how do you prove it?
I dare say the person being racist, isn't even aware they are.

Also opens up any ethnic person to play the race card when they are legitimately
Criticised for doing something wrong.

How do you stop that?

This thing with Megan, has nothing to do with her race, despite her trying to make it so, I feel.

Conversations take place in every family of an unborn baby about how the baby will look, one aspect might well have been taken well out of context to suggest it’s racist, here are the sort of things everyday family’s would speculate about

Will the baby have ginger hair like it’s dad or darker hair like it’s mum?

Will the baby have fair skin like his dad or darker skin like his mum?

Will the baby be tall like his dad or shorter like his mum?


The list goes on and on, and no different to conversation in normal family’s, in my opinion they have played the race card massively, and due to the BLM stuff in America the Americans have bought it lock stock and barrel and Ophera has mad a few quid as well

As a parent to one mixed race child with another on the way, I can safely say that if a white person expressed concern my child would be born too black, that would be extremely f**king racist and I'd make sure they knew about it!

Apologies MM if you felt offended, it wasn’t my intention, for that, I was putting forward an argument of how a discussion MAY have gone, and how that discussion MAY have been interpreted, it is pure speculation.I am not, never have been and never will be a racist, but that doesn’t stop me thinking that sometimes the racist card is dished out too often to score a point

No problem Filo. It wasn't my intention to call you racist, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I just think "the race card" is itself a card that's all too often used to shut down people's concerns. It stops people having to take responsibility for something they've said, and it gets tiring for me, someone who doesn't actually have to deal with it directly. I can only imagine how exhausting it is to keep raising the same issues time after time and get told you're just playing the race card, or "well actually it might not have been racism because..."

[River Don]

It is very strange finding ourselves debating whether one side of the royal family or other is being mistreated or not when normally the argument is much more simple.

Is it an outdated institution we could welk do without? This whole forago suggests it is.