Margaret Thatcher and the Miners

[Sprotyrover]

Hey there is a good documentary on ch5 quite neutral but buy gum Maggie done King Arfur up like a Kipper. She played him for the Twit he was!j
Why on Earth did they call a Strike in March?, why on Earth did they not have a National Ballot ? Didnt Arfur realise he was being goaded when the announcement that Cortonwood was to close, the nearest Pit to Arfurs Bungalow near hound Hill hit the news?
One thing I thought was a bit misleading was the Claim that she had
Para militarised the Police just to take on the Miners.
Not quite right the Police had to become public order orientated due to a series of Troops Out Marches and National Front Marches which resulted in counter protests which were violent, these were followed by The riots and disorder in Toxteth,Mosside, and Tottenham to mention a few. Come the miners Strike The Police were well equipped veterans and due to the reliance on Mutual aid had developed complex command and control structures which were made more efficient by the advent of better communications systems and Information technology. I.e. most Forces didn't use hand held Radios in the 72 Strike, the Bobbies were doing points on the beat i.e. Being at a Telephone kiosk at the half hour to take a call from the control room.
Radios came in the mid 70's.

[albie]

Not sure ballet would have done the trick, Sproty!

Mind you, who doesn't like a graceful pirouette.....I know I do!

[drfchound]

Albie, shouldn’t that be “ I do too too”.

[Sprotyrover]

Not sure ballet would have done the trick, Sproty!

Mind you, who doesn't like a graceful pirouette.....I know I do!

My Bad Albee Ballet changed to Ballot

[Colemans Left Hook]

by chance  i was listening to radio 4 world service in the early hours the other day doing a "chore" and 

the researcher "did an analysis"  on the miners strikeS  then he said

"labour closed more mines than the conservatives"

so googling it out of interest

https://www.quora.com/Were-more-mines-closed-under-labour-than-under-Thatcher

someone "claims"

Clement Attlee's Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115 between 1979 ...

[ravenrover]

Think you might find it was The National Coal Board that closed the mines on economic basis or worked out rather than politicians that is up until the 80's when it did become political

[Bentley Bullet]

It reminds me of Maggie Thatcher being christened the milk snatcher when anyone who told the whole story knew full well that Harold Wilson was the original and real milk snatcher.

Times never change!

[wilts rover]

by chance  i was listening to radio 4 world service in the early hours the other day doing a "chore" and 

the researcher "did an analysis"  on the miners strikeS  then he said

"labour closed more mines than the conservatives"

so googling it out of interest

https://www.quora.com/Were-more-mines-closed-under-labour-than-under-Thatcher

someone "claims"

Clement Attlee's Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115 between 1979 ...

The difference being of course that Labour found other jobs for those miners, Thatcher left them and their communities to rot. Deliberately.

[selby]

  Askern has had a Labour council in the Doncaster council, have provided two Lord Mayors, have had a Labour Town council as has Adwick and Carcroft.
  I cannot think of any council help as far as industry apart from the council tip on the outskirts of Carcroft  that has looked like helping employment north of Tilts Bridge in the last fifty years that has come close to replacing the employment the collieries, the coalite plant, and the large wood yard and Eggborough power station gave that area and an area that has voted labour mostly to a man and woman all my life, and has also had a labour Party Leader living supposedly in Sutton and did, and still has not done anything at all to bring jobs or improve the facilities in his constituency at all.

[wilts rover]

Aye I know. Right buggers, getting money for a new football stadium and community sports facilities, an international airport, regenerating part of the town centre - done nowt for us.

Thatchers cuts, Cameron's austerity, Jenricks bribes to Tory towns - all Labours fault.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby.

Question for you.

What was the average unemployment rate in Donny under the Thatcher/Major Governments?

What was it under the Blair/Brown Governments.

My dad used to work at Mexborough dole office. In the mid 80s, unemployment there hit 28%.

That was what the last Tory Govt did for South Yorkshire. Of all the fact-free nonsense you write, this idea that the last Labour Govt did nothing for South Yorkshire is the most ignorant of all. (And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm using that word as it should be used, not as an idle insult.)

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Question BST, what did the local labour council do to bring jobs to the area? Not just jobs in warehouses but jobs for graduates, professionals etc?  Very little as I can see.

A little different for you but how many of those who were graduates around my age remain in this area?  From my experience, not many, they have to leave as the opportunities aren't there.

How do we make that happen? We have that talent locally but very minimal places for it to go.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP
Local councils have been gutted of responsibility and starved of funding for years, in particularly over the past decade. We don't have the strong level of local government that most other developed countries have. But we put them in the front line for blame.

What exactly did you expect Donny Council to do, when the very first month of the Cameron Govt saw their funding slashed by Eric Pickles (who, incidentally, at the same time increased central Govt funding for many councils in the South).

Look at Section 2 here.  Between 2010 and 2018, Local Authority spending fell by 30% in real terms. While their responsibilities for social care grew hugely.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46443700

THE biggest political coup of the Cameron Govt was loading that majority of austerity onto local councils who took the blame but had zero possibility to raise significant other funding.

[SydneyRover]

yep, the tories saw labour councils as the last barrier to total domination, they couldn't beat them at the ballot box so starved them out.

''Austerity and then chicanery: how the Tories target cash-strapped Labour councils''

''The supposedly non-essential services are always first for the chop – but cuts have gone much deeper. In Leicester the council is now considering closing 11 of the city’s 23 children’s centres. Worcestershire’s county councillors have just agreed a 50% cut in annual spending on the same services, from £6.4bn to £3bn. In Lancashire 31 children’s centres are facing closure''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/23/tories-labour-councils-ministers-conservative-shires

Another really interesting article for you hound

[Filo]

  Askern has had a Labour council in the Doncaster council, have provided two Lord Mayors, have had a Labour Town council as has Adwick and Carcroft.
  I cannot think of any council help as far as industry apart from the council tip on the outskirts of Carcroft  that has looked like helping employment north of Tilts Bridge in the last fifty years that has come close to replacing the employment the collieries, the coalite plant, and the large wood yard and Eggborough power station gave that area and an area that has voted labour mostly to a man and woman all my life, and has also had a labour Party Leader living supposedly in Sutton and did, and still has not done anything at all to bring jobs or improve the facilities in his constituency at all.

Eggborough power station closing was the long term effect of Tory privatisation, selling off national infrastructure to Foriegn company’s

[drfchound]

yep, the tories saw labour councils as the last barrier to total domination, they couldn't beat them at the ballot box so starved them out.

''Austerity and then chicanery: how the Tories target cash-strapped Labour councils''

''The supposedly non-essential services are always first for the chop – but cuts have gone much deeper. In Leicester the council is now considering closing 11 of the city’s 23 children’s centres. Worcestershire’s county councillors have just agreed a 50% cut in annual spending on the same services, from £6.4bn to £3bn. In Lancashire 31 children’s centres are facing closure''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/23/tories-labour-councils-ministers-conservative-shires

Another really interesting article for you hound

With regards to that last line……people who accuse me of dropping grenades into the thread and baiting …….please take note.

[SydneyRover]

I've learned from the master hound

[Herbert Anchovy]

The whole period during the strike was bizarre to say the least. As an exiled Yorkshireman living in London and with relatives on strike I took a keen interest. I attended marches in London supporting the miners and was suprised at the level of support that they had down here.

However, it also hit home how huge the chasm was between north and south at the time. During this period in London, I could pick and choose where I worked and who I worked for and to a degree, how much I took home. There was so much building work going on in London you could approach an agency and take your pick. There was so much work and money flying around it was incredible. I’d come up to Donny during the strike and it was like a different world. The vast majority of my pals were either on strike or on the dole. The atmosphere around the town was really down beat and depressing. I used to encourage my mates to come to London to work, and a couple did for a while, but for those with young families it wasn’t practical.

It was a really sad and depressing time and whilst I think that Donny eventually recovered really well, there’s still areas that have never got over the fact that the pits have gone,

[BillyStubbsTears]

The whole period during the strike was bizarre to say the least. As an exiled Yorkshireman living in London and with relatives on strike I took a keen interest. I attended marches in London supporting the miners and was suprised at the level of support that they had down here.

However, it also hit home how huge the chasm was between north and south at the time. During this period in London, I could pick and choose where I worked and who I worked for and to a degree, how much I took home. There was so much building work going on in London you could approach an agency and take your pick. There was so much work and money flying around it was incredible. I’d come up to Donny during the strike and it was like a different world. The vast majority of my pals were either on strike or on the dole. The atmosphere around the town was really down beat and depressing. I used to encourage my mates to come to London to work, and a couple did for a while, but for those with young families it wasn’t practical.

It was a really sad and depressing time and whilst I think that Donny eventually recovered really well, there’s still areas that have never got over the fact that the pits have gone,

Bang on HA. and that was a conscious, strategic political decision.

London wasn't such a magnet before the 1980s. The financial sector was strong, but not so much that it dominated the wider economy.

The Thatcher Govt took the strategic decision to re-orient the UK economy away from heavy industry and manufacturing, and to become more dependent on the Financial sector. That was a once-in-a-century re-orientation of our economic priorities.

And as committed free marketeers, they let the market do its job on society. The post-industrial north was left to rot and there was a massive brain drain to London and the South East. I was at university in the mid/late 80s. One of my mates there was someone I had been at Mexborough 6th form with. He studies engineering, like me. He was very intelligent, very driven, very ambitious. Precisely the sort of person that a strong regional economy should be built on. But of course he went straight to the City of London on graduation. he started on nearly twice the salary that I was getting as a young engineer in Sheffield. By the time he was 30, in the mid 90s, he was earning nearly £100k per year. He retired at 47.

That was the Britain that Thatcher's revolution gave us. A massive drain sucking all talent out of the regions and pouring into what is at core a non-productive parasite.

Blair and Brown did a sticking plaster job by at least diverting a significant amount of the money generated by the financial sector into public spending, targeted at the areas that had been crushed by Thatcher. But then even that sticking plaster was ripped off by Austerity.

And that's where we are two generations down the road. Look at the net movement of people in this country. (OK, this graph is nearly 10 years old, but it'll still stand.)

https://twitter.com/ACJSissons/status/1391041816053567497

And look what it has meant to regional inequality in Britain.
https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1394540445384982528
All regions of the UK used to be richer than the European average. Now, the South East is one of the very richest regions in Europe, while Wales, South Yorkshire, Tyneside, Merseyside are among the very poorest.

What we need is a revolution in how we manage this country's economy, on a par with the one that Thatcher brought in that turbocharged this disaster. What we don't need to do is blame local politicians for not being able to stop the tsunami.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BFYP
Local councils have been gutted of responsibility and starved of funding for years, in particularly over the past decade. We don't have the strong level of local government that most other developed countries have. But we put them in the front line for blame.

What exactly did you expect Donny Council to do, when the very first month of the Cameron Govt saw their funding slashed by Eric Pickles (who, incidentally, at the same time increased central Govt funding for many councils in the South).

Look at Section 2 here.  Between 2010 and 2018, Local Authority spending fell by 30% in real terms. While their responsibilities for social care grew hugely.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46443700

THE biggest political coup of the Cameron Govt was loading that majority of austerity onto local councils who took the blame but had zero possibility to raise significant other funding.

BST, your argument is let down by the timing of my graduation. I graduated June 2010, labour had been in power for 13 years at that point so they had ample opportunity to do the things you say they couldn't, but they didn't.....

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP
One thing I certainly don't think the last Labour Govt should be supported on is their lack of action on supporting local democracy. They devolved power to Scotland and Wales but did virtually nothing for English regions, beyond a few near-meaningless mayorships.

That's why I said what I said in my first sentence above. Both parties are to blame for starving local democracy. But that then went into overdrive when Austerity kicked in.

[selby]

  Filo, the thing that closed all coal fired power stations is the carbon tax per ton added to the price of a ton of coal in increments every year.
  It took the price of the coal burnt in thousands of tons from the cheapest fuel to generate electricity with to being uneconomical in a few years and has added roughly a £1 a bag every year and will continue to do so to anyone who heats their homes with solid fuel.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I should add, your huge misfortune BFYP was to graduate at the worst time in decades. We were painfully emerging from the Global Financial Crash by early-2010 but there was still a huge amount to do to properly re-float the economy. Local authorities were pretty much powerless against a challenge of that size. It needed massive Govt borrowing to keep the economy growing. Instead we got Austerity and a permaslump.

You might recall arguing with me at the time that the Keynesian reflation I said we needed was old fashioned, and that Austerity was right. I get zero pleasure from the fact that your generation had to learn the hard way on that subject.

As we've seen with the current crisis, Govt spending is the ONLY way to deal with a massive hit to the economy. That was as true in 2010 as it is now, or as it was in the 1930s. Your generation has paid a heavy price for a country that supported voodoo economics over tried and tested principles.

[BillyStubbsTears]

  Filo, the thing that closed all coal fired power stations is the carbon tax per ton added to the price of a ton of coal in increments every year.
  It took the price of the coal burnt in thousands of tons from the cheapest fuel to generate electricity with to being uneconomical in a few years and has added roughly a £1 a bag every year and will continue to do so to anyone who heats their homes with solid fuel.

As it should. Because otherwise the selfish and ignorant will destroy the planet. They are at liberty to do that, but at least the rest of us can make them pay through the nose so the next generation has some money to spend on cleaning up the shit.

[Filo]

  Filo, the thing that closed all coal fired power stations is the carbon tax per ton added to the price of a ton of coal in increments every year.
  It took the price of the coal burnt in thousands of tons from the cheapest fuel to generate electricity with to being uneconomical in a few years and has added roughly a £1 a bag every year and will continue to do so to anyone who heats their homes with solid fuel.

And cheap foreign coal that was no longer cheap once we had no pits left to mine our own, and why did we have no pits left?

[selby]

  Filo, and Billy at that time that Eggborough and other coal fired stations shut there was a world wide glut of coal only the carbon tax made it uneconomical.
  And Billy while we were shutting our stations Grermany were commissioning twenty new stations taking advantage of cheap eastern European coal, and China and India were building the equivalent to Drax power station every week.
  I can't argue the rights or wrongs and not bothered really but it is the younger generations that may have to pay the price of being uncompetitive with other nations.
  But hey sitting on the park bench in clean air is far better unless you are golloping a spliff down your throat that is or taking a hit in the sun on the grass.

[ravenrover]

  Filo, the thing that closed all coal fired power stations is the carbon tax per ton added to the price of a ton of coal in increments every year.
  It took the price of the coal burnt in thousands of tons from the cheapest fuel to generate electricity with to being uneconomical in a few years and has added roughly a £1 a bag every year and will continue to do so to anyone who heats their homes with solid fuel.

And cheap foreign coal that was no longer cheap once we had no pits left to mine our own, and why did we have no pits left?

Uneconomical is probably the reason

[roversdude]

I’m sure there was a ballot the year before giving a mandate including industrial action