The role of the Culture War

[tyke1962]

So if that's the case it would be detrimental for the Labour party to have a policy of people getting wealthy.

Precisely.
Why would anyone want to vote for a Party that didn’t help them to improve their lifestyle.

No not precisely as 2 =2 still doesn't equal three, and if you can show where labour have worked to stop people improving their lifestyle it would go a long way to making your argument credible hound.

It's always been a conundrum for labour but one which they have to work with and appeal to voters that want to share a country's wealth equitably and show the the benefits of taking that route.

What did they do in the old industrial heartlands during the 13 years they were in power from 1997 ?

Genuine question .

[SydneyRover]

You tell me tyke, it sounds like your dying to, but please include who you intend to support to actually get into government if voters have already walked away from the far left, and as the link that bst put up shows it's not labour workers.

[tyke1962]

You tell me tyke, it sounds like your dying to, but please include who you intend to support to actually get into government if voters have already walked away from the far left, and as the link that bst put up shows it's not labour workers.

It's a fairly simple question Sydney .

If you want to introduce far left politics or what link BST put up then that's up to you .

I'll have another go .

What economic policies through 13 years in government did the Labour Party introduce that raised living standards in the former industrial heartlands ?

You'd imagine after 13 years they'd be at least something .

Just answer the question please .

[Bentley Bullet]

I suspect Sydney's waiting for The Duke to appear!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

It's an observation of where the fault lines are in our society. They are not where they used to be. 40 years ago the separation between Tory and Labour supporters used to be defined by wealth. It still is among people who are still in the workforce. But among the retired, even the poorest have a majority supporting the Tories. And that's after the worst economic decade in 200 years (fact, not opinion). Which screams out that what influences the voting of older people today is culture, not economics. And the Tories are playing on that - successfully so as the microcosm of this place affirms.

The fascinating question is what happens as that older generation leaves the scene and the younger generation which broadly embraces the cultural changes of the last few decades replaces them. Which is why my take is that it would be long term suicide for Labour to pander to the cultural attitudes of the current retired generation. That would alienate the next two generations. We saw that when Corbyn came out for Brexit 2 years ago.

Regarding your comment about Adams and Plymouth, I haven't got a clue what that has to do with anything. No one is saying the pensioner vote should be ignored in election results.

[Bentley Bullet]

There you go Sydney, you've had the expert opinion of the 'real deal', now how about about answering Tyke's question?

[SydneyRover]

I suspect Sydney's waiting for The Duke to appear!

nothing to say = personal insults, it reminds me of when adults are talking and the kids are screaming for attention

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

You ache for a return to a past that ain't coming back. What the last Labour Govt did was to try to put some of the long term measures in place to give the post Industrial North a future. That isn't going to be based on re-opening the pits and the steel works. It's about raising educational standards and getting well paid jobs in the knowledge economy. Look at the AMRC on the edge of Sheffield. Hi-tech manufacturing jobs based on world leading University research and bringing in investment from Boeing, Airbus, McLaren and Rolls Royce. That was set up with massive financial support from the last Labour Govt and the EU. That's where the future is. The blame for the fact that the North has since borne the brunt of Austerity and hasn't built on springboards like that lies elsewhere.

[Bentley Bullet]

Sydney, forget me, just answer Tykes question.

[Bentley Bullet]

Tyke.

You ache for a return to a past that ain't coming back. What the last Labour Govt did was to try to put some of the long term measures in place to give the post Industrial North a future. That isn't going to be based on re-opening the pits and the steel works. It's about raising educational standards and getting well paid jobs in the knowledge economy. Look at the AMRC on the edge of Sheffield. Hi-tech manufacturing jobs based on world leading University research and bringing in investment from Boeing, Airbus, McLaren and Rolls Royce. That was set up with massive financial support from the last Labour Govt and the EU. That's where the future is. The blame for the fact that the North has since borne the brunt of Austerity and hasn't built on springboards like that lies elsewhere.

Great answer BST, except, it wasn't an answer, was it!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, the whole culture war issue is that the Right has nothing whatsoever to offer economically to those left behind in the post Industrial North. So it plays on cultural issues. It stokes feels against The Other. The Ashfield MP, effectively telling black English footballers to stop their stance against racism which everyone of them personally experiences is a perfect example of it.

[Bentley Bullet]

.......Aannndddd, here's the race card!


you simply CANNOT make it up!

[SydneyRover]

You tell me tyke, it sounds like your dying to, but please include who you intend to support to actually get into government if voters have already walked away from the far left, and as the link that bst put up shows it's not labour workers.

It's a fairly simple question Sydney .

If you want to introduce far left politics or what link BST put up then that's up to you .

I'll have another go .

What economic policies through 13 years in government did the Labour Party introduce that raised living standards in the former industrial heartlands ?

You'd imagine after 13 years they'd be at least something .

Just answer the question please .

''

I think there's a fairly reasonable explanation why nobody can land a solid punch on Johnson and his corrupt government .

There's enough people who are doing alright thank you very much so who cares what Johnson does or doesn't do .

Whilst ever there are more than enough doing alright as opposed to those who aren't then PM's and governments are practically bullet proof .

I could never understand why the country repeatedly voted for Thatcher in the 80's , drove me crazy as an NUM man .

It wasn't until I was older I realised that she made sure enough people did very well out of her .

Why would Essex man care about my job prospects and community in South Yorkshire ? .

So how does that fit in with ditching Starmer and putting another leftwing leader in?''

As I see it you are going to persist with a far left agenda at the expense of government.

Just answer this question please.

[Bentley Bullet]

Still waiting Sydney....

[Bentley Bullet]

..DUKE! WHERE THE f**k ARE YOU?

[SydneyRover]

Still waiting Sydney....

that's because basically you're still a child bb

[Bentley Bullet]

Not really mate. It's because you've decided to lend your support to a minority vote that basically means f**k all in the real world, and only gives you feelings of grandeur when it's based on the extreme activity of a handful of antigovernmental people, such as this third division football forum.

[SydneyRover]

Not really mate. It's because you've decided to lend your support to a minority vote that basically means f**k all in the real world, and only gives you feelings of grandeur when it's based on the extreme activity of a handful of antigovernmental people, such as this third division football forum.

You're still a child screaming for attention on the third tier football forum bb

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

You ache for a return to a past that ain't coming back. What the last Labour Govt did was to try to put some of the long term measures in place to give the post Industrial North a future. That isn't going to be based on re-opening the pits and the steel works. It's about raising educational standards and getting well paid jobs in the knowledge economy. Look at the AMRC on the edge of Sheffield. Hi-tech manufacturing jobs based on world leading University research and bringing in investment from Boeing, Airbus, McLaren and Rolls Royce. That was set up with massive financial support from the last Labour Govt and the EU. That's where the future is. The blame for the fact that the North has since borne the brunt of Austerity and hasn't built on springboards like that lies elsewhere.

I don't think I alluded to the reopening of old industries , once a mine is mothballed that's it , once a steel works closes it's the same .

I return to no past Billy , earning a living underground ? , your havin a laff fella .

Thatcher threw us on the scrap heap .

Stands to sense when a Labour government is elected with the kind of majority they had in 97 you'd have reason for optimism .

Let me throw some numbers in to this , over 30k people in the borough of Barnsley were employed in the mining industry .

So under Blair , Rolls Royce took them on ?

Boeing , Airbus and McClaren too ?

Funny because none of these companies set up in the borough of Barnsley .

13 years Billy , 3 election wins with sizable majorities .

I know who did well under a Labour government , the one's that almost took the country down in 2008 .

Which led to a change of government and austerity .

Remember those 30k in my town , your own town and the rest of em in the old industrial heartlands .

Labour finished em off .

And you wonder why they are despised so much around these parts .

[Bentley Bullet]

Sydney, there are a handful of people who will no doubt agree with you. By all means sleep well with that support, because in your case, as in many cases, ignorance is bliss.

[tyke1962]

You tell me tyke, it sounds like your dying to, but please include who you intend to support to actually get into government if voters have already walked away from the far left, and as the link that bst put up shows it's not labour workers.

It's a fairly simple question Sydney .

If you want to introduce far left politics or what link BST put up then that's up to you .

I'll have another go .

What economic policies through 13 years in government did the Labour Party introduce that raised living standards in the former industrial heartlands ?

You'd imagine after 13 years they'd be at least something .

Just answer the question please .

''

I think there's a fairly reasonable explanation why nobody can land a solid punch on Johnson and his corrupt government .

There's enough people who are doing alright thank you very much so who cares what Johnson does or doesn't do .

Whilst ever there are more than enough doing alright as opposed to those who aren't then PM's and governments are practically bullet proof .

I could never understand why the country repeatedly voted for Thatcher in the 80's , drove me crazy as an NUM man .

It wasn't until I was older I realised that she made sure enough people did very well out of her .

Why would Essex man care about my job prospects and community in South Yorkshire ? .

So how does that fit in with ditching Starmer and putting another leftwing leader in?''

As I see it you are going to persist with a far left agenda at the expense of government.

Just answer this question please.

A far left agenda ?

What's a far left agenda Sydney ?

My guess is your far left agenda is actual normality in many countries .

Social contracts , bargaining rights in the workplace , public ownership of SOME industries .

I'm beginning to think your Thatcher's greatest achievement never mind your hero Bliar .

[SydneyRover]

You tell me tyke, it sounds like your dying to, but please include who you intend to support to actually get into government if voters have already walked away from the far left, and as the link that bst put up shows it's not labour workers.

It's a fairly simple question Sydney .

If you want to introduce far left politics or what link BST put up then that's up to you .

I'll have another go .

What economic policies through 13 years in government did the Labour Party introduce that raised living standards in the former industrial heartlands ?

You'd imagine after 13 years they'd be at least something .

Just answer the question please .

''

I think there's a fairly reasonable explanation why nobody can land a solid punch on Johnson and his corrupt government .

There's enough people who are doing alright thank you very much so who cares what Johnson does or doesn't do .

Whilst ever there are more than enough doing alright as opposed to those who aren't then PM's and governments are practically bullet proof .

I could never understand why the country repeatedly voted for Thatcher in the 80's , drove me crazy as an NUM man .

It wasn't until I was older I realised that she made sure enough people did very well out of her .

Why would Essex man care about my job prospects and community in South Yorkshire ? .

So how does that fit in with ditching Starmer and putting another leftwing leader in?''

As I see it you are going to persist with a far left agenda at the expense of government.

Just answer this question please.

A far left agenda ?

What's a far left agenda Sydney ?

My guess is your far left agenda is actual normality in many countries .

Social contracts , bargaining rights in the workplace , public ownership of SOME industries .

I'm beginning to think your Thatcher's greatest achievement never mind your hero Bliar .

If you can't answer the question Tyke just say so you don't have to drag the debate all around town.

[tyke1962]

You tell me tyke, it sounds like your dying to, but please include who you intend to support to actually get into government if voters have already walked away from the far left, and as the link that bst put up shows it's not labour workers.

It's a fairly simple question Sydney .

If you want to introduce far left politics or what link BST put up then that's up to you .

I'll have another go .

What economic policies through 13 years in government did the Labour Party introduce that raised living standards in the former industrial heartlands ?

You'd imagine after 13 years they'd be at least something .

Just answer the question please .

''

I think there's a fairly reasonable explanation why nobody can land a solid punch on Johnson and his corrupt government .

There's enough people who are doing alright thank you very much so who cares what Johnson does or doesn't do .

Whilst ever there are more than enough doing alright as opposed to those who aren't then PM's and governments are practically bullet proof .

I could never understand why the country repeatedly voted for Thatcher in the 80's , drove me crazy as an NUM man .

It wasn't until I was older I realised that she made sure enough people did very well out of her .

Why would Essex man care about my job prospects and community in South Yorkshire ? .

So how does that fit in with ditching Starmer and putting another leftwing leader in?''

As I see it you are going to persist with a far left agenda at the expense of government.

Just answer this question please.

A far left agenda ?

What's a far left agenda Sydney ?

My guess is your far left agenda is actual normality in many countries .

Social contracts , bargaining rights in the workplace , public ownership of SOME industries .

I'm beginning to think your Thatcher's greatest achievement never mind your hero Bliar .

If you can't answer the question Tyke just say so you don't have to drag the debate all around town.

I haven't even left my town never mind my country fella .

Citizens of anywhere rather than somewhere have a limited capacity in my book broadly speaking .

Your Thatcher's greatest achievement , at least own it , not that you'd even remotely know where I'm coming from .

Something always puzzles me about people of your political persuasion .

Why didn't you just vote for Swinson in 2019 ?

C'mon , why ?

Ticked every box didn't she ?

Because she wasn't Labour Sydney ?

Tut tut ....... now that's tribal bordering on a cult .

[Bentley Bullet]

Where's the duke?

[SydneyRover]

You are making assumptions that you have no evidence for Tyke and still avoiding the most important question.

If you have 'learned' as you say you have, how will the centre ground be captured by installing a leader from an area of politics that the country has soundly rejected in record numbers. How do you reconcile that. The name of the game is getting power, there is a huge chunk of voters that have proven with brexit and the way covid has been handled that can be 'managed' not lied to, but guided.

How is your 'new' left wing leader going to capture enough votes to do that?

btw, I don't need to post my credentials to prove to anyone what my aims are and what needs to be done, it's like dealing with a fifth column rather than a common enemy.

[scawsby steve]

Sydney, you still haven't answered my question. You're building up a bit of a list here mate.

[SydneyRover]

Sydney, you still haven't answered my question. You're building up a bit of a list here mate.

It's easy SS, look at the description and see if applies, there fixed that for you.

[drfchound]

Sydney, you still haven't answered my question. You're building up a bit of a list here mate.

You are wasting your time SS.
He asks lots of questions but answers none.

[SydneyRover]

Sydney, you still haven't answered my question. You're building up a bit of a list here mate.

You are wasting your time SS.
He asks lots of questions but answers none.

Hiding behind others to carry on your petty feuds isn't a good look hound

[drfchound]

Sydney, you still haven't answered my question. You're building up a bit of a list here mate.

You are wasting your time SS.
He asks lots of questions but answers none.

Hiding behind others to carry on your petty feuds isn't a good look hound

 

Oh, and morning to Filo too.