England/Euros Thread

[drfchound]

Nah, has to be the three lions one.

[scawsby steve]

I tend to agree with BST on this one. For some reason, other countries seem to produce endless players with natural technical ability at world level whereas we produce them now and again.

Since Bobby Charlton, I can only think of Trevor Francis, Glen Hoddle, Paul Gascoigne, Matt Le Tissier, Wayne Rooney, and maybe Phil Foden and Jack Grealish.

I'm sure there are others I haven't mentioned, but not that many.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Sedwards.

My point was that the players we are talking about have weeks and months and years to be honed into specific roles at their clubs, where they know intimately both their own role and the overall team style.

Then they are asked to squeeze into an unfamiliar formation or playing style, with unfamiliar teammates.

I'm not doubting the players' ability to be as good as anyone in the world when they are moulded into a team over time. I'm questioning their ability to adapt when in unfamiliar circumstances.

Ask yourself. When was the last time you saw England play a tournament and consistently look as much as the sum of its parts?

I'm genuinely struggling to think. 1996 perhaps? 1982?

It's true we never look a sum of it's parts. It's frustrating when lot's of other international teams raise there games but we haven't really.

I just think they do adapt to new styles and roles at club level. Think how often managers come and go at those teams with new styles and roles for players. At international level we chop and change the system too much rather than just play a style that so everyone knows what the plan is when they put a England shirt on. Maybe thats the issue to.

Not saying your wrong because there's 100% something off and it goes beyond managers or players available.
 

[DearneValleyRover]

I tend to agree with BST on this one. For some reason, other countries seem to produce endless players with natural technical ability at world level whereas we produce them now and again.

Since Bobby Charlton, I can only think of Trevor Francis, Glen Hoddle, Paul Gascoigne, Matt Le Tissier, Wayne Rooney, and maybe Phil Foden and Jack Grealish.

I'm sure there are others I haven't mentioned, but not that many.

We had plenty of players with ability back in the 70’s but they were classed as Mavericks who lived upto their playboy images and probably never realised their potential. Culture and lifestyle play a massive part too.

[scawsby steve]

I tend to agree with BST on this one. For some reason, other countries seem to produce endless players with natural technical ability at world level whereas we produce them now and again.

Since Bobby Charlton, I can only think of Trevor Francis, Glen Hoddle, Paul Gascoigne, Matt Le Tissier, Wayne Rooney, and maybe Phil Foden and Jack Grealish.

I'm sure there are others I haven't mentioned, but not that many.

We had plenty of players with ability back in the 70’s but they were classed as Mavericks who lived upto their playboy images and probably never realised their potential. Culture and lifestyle play a massive part too.

Rodney Marsh and Stan Bowles, maybe?

[DearneValleyRover]

I tend to agree with BST on this one. For some reason, other countries seem to produce endless players with natural technical ability at world level whereas we produce them now and again.

Since Bobby Charlton, I can only think of Trevor Francis, Glen Hoddle, Paul Gascoigne, Matt Le Tissier, Wayne Rooney, and maybe Phil Foden and Jack Grealish.

I'm sure there are others I haven't mentioned, but not that many.

We had plenty of players with ability back in the 70’s but they were classed as Mavericks who lived upto their playboy images and probably never realised their potential. Culture and lifestyle play a massive part too.

Rodney Marsh and Stan Bowles, maybe?

They were 2 of them

[drfchound]

I tend to agree with BST on this one. For some reason, other countries seem to produce endless players with natural technical ability at world level whereas we produce them now and again.

Since Bobby Charlton, I can only think of Trevor Francis, Glen Hoddle, Paul Gascoigne, Matt Le Tissier, Wayne Rooney, and maybe Phil Foden and Jack Grealish.

I'm sure there are others I haven't mentioned, but not that many.

We had plenty of players with ability back in the 70’s but they were classed as Mavericks who lived upto their playboy images and probably never realised their potential. Culture and lifestyle play a massive part too.

Rodney Marsh and Stan Bowles, maybe?

Tony Currie.

[DearneValleyRover]

Yep, Duncan McKenzie is another, the infamous Frank Worthington.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That Finland defeat means England have now qualified for R2 regardless of the results tomorrow.

[drfchound]

Bbc site says England through now because of Finland’s defeat.

[Nudga]

How? I'm baffled and can't find an explanation

[dickos1]

Yep it’s confirmed although it was really anyhow,
Not every group would’ve had 3rd place on 4 points

[dickos1]

How? I'm baffled and can't find an explanation

Because 4 of the 3rd placed teams qualify, and there’s already 2 leagues where the 3rd place have finished on 3 points

[DRCraig]

1990 we did.

agree.

[Nudga]

How? I'm baffled and can't find an explanation

Because 4 of the 3rd placed teams qualify, and there’s already 2 leagues where the 3rd place have finished on 3 points

 f**kin shite rule.

Pissing about with the competition to make sure the big names are in the hat again.
This is the European super league  f**kfest at international level.
Takes the romance, the nail biting finish and drama out of game.

w**kers!!

[dickos1]

To be fair
Other than one group non of the big teams are going to finish 3rd anyhow.

[BillyStubbsTears]

1990 we did.

agree.

We really only had one performance in 1990 where an excellent group of players really gelled and that was the semi against West Germany.

We were awful vs Ireland. Did reasonably well vs Holland. Laboured against Egypt and a not particularly strong Belgium, then very nearly ballsed it up vs Cameroon. With that run of matches and a squad including Shilton, Walker, Pearce, Gascoigne, Barnes, Waddle, Lineker and Beardsley, a run to the semis was no more than par and we made very hard work of it.

1982 stands out for me as the only time we really gelled as a side and but for the injuries to Keegan and Brooking, I think we could well have won the cup that year.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This might explain why Kane looks a shadow of what he should be.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57555543

Never mind the fact that the Euros are going on Premier League needs always come first, eh?

[River Don]

I think were probably getting too deep about the problem with the England team.

For decades the big Western European nations, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Netherlands and perhaps Portugal have been more professional at developing footballers. At either club level or like France at a national institute.

It's taken English clubs a longtime to catch up but I think now we probably have but that doesn't give England an advantage. We're just at a similar level to the rest and waiting for that magical group of players to emerge for one special tournament.

As for coaching. Well, I still think the English have some catching up to do. The English game is still not producing coaches at the standard the big continental nations regularly do. You only need look at the top end of the Premier League to see how it is dominated by top continental coaching teams.

[Bentley Bullet]

When I followed football at junior level the flair players conceded in selection to the bigger, albeit less skillful but nonetheless more effective players, due to their sheer size. That meant a hell of a lot of young, skilled, flair players became disillusioned and packed in playing.

I reckon the emphasis on winning by all means at a young age has destroyed the progress of flair players.

[Redandwhite]

It's all mentality. 
England have never managed to play as a team, closest recently was euro 96 .

The clip of grealish and henderson bullying foden highlights it. It wasn't banter .
If your taking the piss out of someone, Infront of them, without looking at them , ignoring them and not joking WITH them, then that's bullying. 

I feel the England team need more/ better mental coaches.  It should really be part of their training from a young age .

They are huge rivals at their clubs, and need to get past that to gel as a team for England. 

They are very weak mentally .

[Chris Black come back]

1990 we did.

agree.

We really only had one performance in 1990 where an excellent group of players really gelled and that was the semi against West Germany.

We were awful vs Ireland. Did reasonably well vs Holland. Laboured against Egypt and a not particularly strong Belgium, then very nearly ballsed it up vs Cameroon. With that run of matches and a squad including Shilton, Walker, Pearce, Gascoigne, Barnes, Waddle, Lineker and Beardsley, a run to the semis was no more than par and we made very hard work of it.

1982 stands out for me as the only time we really gelled as a side and but for the injuries to Keegan and Brooking, I think we could well have won the cup that year.

Was talking about the New Order song.

[DonnyNoel]

How? I'm baffled and can't find an explanation

Because 4 of the 3rd placed teams qualify, and there’s already 2 leagues where the 3rd place have finished on 3 points

 f**kin shite rule.

Pissing about with the competition to make sure the big names are in the hat again.
This is the European super league  f**kfest at international level.
Takes the romance, the nail biting finish and drama out of game.

w**kers!!

It's not so much big names as such as it only really protects one of Germany/Portugal/France but the concept of being able to finish third in the group and still qualify means one decent win and keep it tight in the difficult games means you're pactically through for a Finalnd/Ukraine/Slovakia. For all the romance about England's performance, Italia 90 was dirge as well at the group stage becuase of this. It needs to be a "top 2 qualify" format in tournaments with groups of 4 so either 4 groups or 8 groups. I'd be tempted with 4 for the Euros and 8 for the World Cup.

Of course if you want it even more daft look at the Copa America - 2 groups of 5 with the top 4 going through from each!

[dickos1]

It's all mentality. 
England have never managed to play as a team, closest recently was euro 96 .

The clip of grealish and henderson bullying foden highlights it. It wasn't banter .
If your taking the piss out of someone, Infront of them, without looking at them , ignoring them and not joking WITH them, then that's bullying. 

I feel the England team need more/ better mental coaches.  It should really be part of their training from a young age .

They are huge rivals at their clubs, and need to get past that to gel as a team for England. 

They are very weak mentally .

As I said, if you think that’s bullying then there’s thousands of cases at football clubs on a daily basis.
And millions of workplaces across the country will also have the same banter.

[Redandwhite]

It's all mentality. 
England have never managed to play as a team, closest recently was euro 96 .

The clip of grealish and henderson bullying foden highlights it. It wasn't banter .
If your taking the piss out of someone, Infront of them, without looking at them , ignoring them and not joking WITH them, then that's bullying. 

I feel the England team need more/ better mental coaches.  It should really be part of their training from a young age .

They are huge rivals at their clubs, and need to get past that to gel as a team for England. 

They are very weak mentally .

As I said, if you think that’s bullying then there’s thousands of cases at football clubs on a daily basis.
And millions of workplaces across the country will also have the same banter.

It depends on the circumstances, and how the person feels .
Bullying lasts a long time .

It needs cracking down on.
Grealish is obviously mentally weak, and resentful of fodens achievements at a young age .

Foden probably doesn't like grealish and Henderson now .
Hardly a great team spirit there 

I will say this though, if that's your attitude, then your part of the problem .

[Colin C No.3]

I tend to agree with BST on this one. For some reason, other countries seem to produce endless players with natural technical ability at world level whereas we produce them now and again.

Since Bobby Charlton, I can only think of Trevor Francis, Glen Hoddle, Paul Gascoigne, Matt Le Tissier, Wayne Rooney, and maybe Phil Foden and Jack Grealish.

I'm sure there are others I haven't mentioned, but not that many.

Oh how quickly we forget. In no particular order:-

Bobby Moore
Peter Beardsley
Frank Lampard
Steven Gerrard
Paul Scholes
Peter Barnes
Chris Waddle
Gary Linekar
Colin Bell
Jimmy Greaves
David Beckham
Michael Owen
Alan Shearer
Trevor Brooking
Kevin Keegan
Ian Wright
Marcus Rashford
Mick Channon
Steve Coppell

[MachoMadness]

How? I'm baffled and can't find an explanation

Because 4 of the 3rd placed teams qualify, and there’s already 2 leagues where the 3rd place have finished on 3 points

 f**kin shite rule.

Pissing about with the competition to make sure the big names are in the hat again.
This is the European super league  f**kfest at international level.
Takes the romance, the nail biting finish and drama out of game.

w**kers!!

I agree it's a nonsense. Reminder that Portugal only won last time because of this rule - they finished 3rd in their group. I think they only won 1 game in 90 minutes the whole tournament. Makes a mockery of the whole thing imo.

[dickos1]

It's all mentality. 
England have never managed to play as a team, closest recently was euro 96 .

The clip of grealish and henderson bullying foden highlights it. It wasn't banter .
If your taking the piss out of someone, Infront of them, without looking at them , ignoring them and not joking WITH them, then that's bullying. 

I feel the England team need more/ better mental coaches.  It should really be part of their training from a young age .

They are huge rivals at their clubs, and need to get past that to gel as a team for England. 

They are very weak mentally .

As I said, if you think that’s bullying then there’s thousands of cases at football clubs on a daily basis.
And millions of workplaces across the country will also have the same banter.

It depends on the circumstances, and how the person feels .
Bullying lasts a long time .

It needs cracking down on.
Grealish is obviously mentally weak, and resentful of fodens achievements at a young age .

Foden probably doesn't like grealish and Henderson now .
Hardly a great team spirit there 

I will say this though, if that's your attitude, then your part of the problem .

Lots of absolute made up nonsense in there,
Foden probably hates grealish
Grealish is envious of foden

It was a joke about what suit they wore for the champions league final, to suggest foden will be upset about that is laughable

[Filo]

A bit of piss taking at work is not bullying, thats tame compared to some of the piss taking in my working life, by and with lifelong friends

[sedwardsdrfc]

Guys clearly on a wind up. Doesn't justify a serious response