Levelling Up

[Herbert Anchovy]

Just been listening to a news report about the Government’s plans to ‘level up’ the country by investing in areas, primarily in the north. It seems that Johnson is concerned about how this will be perceived in the South of England amid claims that it’s simply an example of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Putting aside the fact that no Tory government during my lifetime has ever provided the investment needed in the north (particularly in the 80’d and early 90’s) I can tell you exactly what people in the South think about the north of England….nothing. In 40 years of living in London I could count on one hand the number of times that I’ve come across anyone with a genuine concern for the economy of the north. There was some support during the miners strike but that’s about it.

When I first moved down here from Donny the country was in the middle of a crippling recession….everywhere except London. I couldn’t believe the amount of work and money available down here! People didn’t give a shit about what was happening in Yorkshire, and they still don’t. As long as it doesn’t affect them, nobody really gives it a second thought.

In fact, I’d go so far as to say that many people down here are more concerned with things taking place abroad than they are north of Watford.

England has always been 2 individual countries; the South East and then the rest and I can’t see that changing. So I don’t think Johnson has anything to worry about. As long as it doesn’t cost anyone down here, he can do what he wants with the north.

[SydneyRover]

I can believe all of that HA, I flagged up a few weeks ago that tories would not buy the idea of levelling up, not because they might lose some of their privileges but because they wouldn't like the idea of uppity oiks becoming more wealthy and some even on par with them.

The big question of course is how and when will it be done, it needs real targets and measurable outcomes monitored by a truly independent body.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The idea and points are fine. But they've been ideas and points for some time now.  Nearly 2 years since the election and no proposals in place.  Ideas don't create jobs and wealth....

I also think the number of well off people who are against others becoming well off is small.  Clearly there will always be people with more wealth than others but if we can increase the wealth of everyone that makes everyone stronger. More wealth equals more spending which equals stronger companies and ultimately stronger investments which tend to benefit the highest more anyway.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Will they be putting as much into the deprived areas as the EU did, though?

[Metalmicky]

Time for an Independence vote.....?

[BillyStubbsTears]

The idea and points are fine. But they've been ideas and points for some time now.  Nearly 2 years since the election and no proposals in place.  Ideas don't create jobs and wealth....

I also think the number of well off people who are against others becoming well off is small.  Clearly there will always be people with more wealth than others but if we can increase the wealth of everyone that makes everyone stronger. More wealth equals more spending which equals stronger companies and ultimately stronger investments which tend to benefit the highest more anyway.

It's been 11 years since the Tories came to power with the Northern Powerhouse agenda.

Which has so far produced...I'll get back to you on that one.

[Filo]

Today Stainforth has been awarded £21.6M from the towns fund

[wilts rover]

Didn't the 'Levelling Up Agenda' boil down to - email me with any ideas you have for it?

[SydneyRover]

''The cost of Boris Johnson’s ‘levelling up’: £2tn, says UK thinktank
Centre for Cities says closing the north-south divide would take decades and cost hundreds of billions''

Better get a move on then. how much progress has been made so far?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/15/the-cost-of-boris-johnsons-levelling-up-2tn-says-uk-thinktank

[BillyStubbsTears]

We have, through 50 years of policies from both Tory and Labour Govts, allowed a situation to develop where the economic performance of the North vs the South is similar to what East to West Germany was like when the Berlin Wall came down.

Germany had a strong, long term policy then of investing in the old East Germany. It still hasn't caught up. Dresden is still poorer than Munich. Leipzig is still poorer than Cologne. But they have made massive strides. Saxony is now WAY richer than South Yorkshire or Merseyside.

I honestly do think that Johnson understands this. What I have never believed is that he has the political nerve to put in place the policies required. That means MASSIVE Govt borrowing and investment in the North. Or it means MASSIVE taxes on the rich South and investment in the North. Either will mean that the people of Guildford won't continue to be cocooned and pull away from the North like they have for the past half century. I'd honestly like to think that I'm wrong, but I just cannot see any Tory Govt fixing their colours to that mast for 30 years. I think they would pay lip service to it when it suits, but when times get tough, I can't see any outcome put them reverting to type and protecting their heartland.

[keith79]

Money to Manchester Leeds and Liverpool?

[drfchound]

I’m not looking forward to driving one of those Trabants.

[SydneyRover]

Many were concerned about mental health if we didn't open up, what about the mental health of the working poor and those queuing at food banks?

''Ending universal credit boost will hit sickest areas the hardest, study shows
New research finds scrapping the £1,000-a-year benefit uplift will ‘trigger mental illness and poorer health’ for thousands''

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/10/ending-universal-credit-boost-will-hit-sickest-areas-the-hardest-study-shows

[normal rules]

Quite frankly I don’t give a flying shit about London and the SE. I can’t stand the place. The epitome of how to live in the rat race. If I go for a day, I can’t wait to get out of the place.
Many Londoners have had it with the place too.
You wouldn’t believe the amount of people leaving London to live in rural Lincolnshire alone. 

[SydneyRover]

You didn't read it did you? NR

[selby]

  Glyn, the EU put nothing into the North of the UK or any other part, they gave us back a little of what we contributed into the scam and spent the rest on themselves.

[SydneyRover]

They put more into the north and deprived areas than you put into your thought processes selby.

[SydneyRover]

Here is a sample ................

''The majority of EU funding in the UK comes from the European Structural and Investment (ESI) funds (discussed in section 2) and the European Agricultural Guarantee Fund (discussed in section 3). For the 2014-20 funding period, the UK was allocated €17.2 billion and €22.5 billion through these funds respectively''

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7847/

Added

And here is a breakdown showing where the money was spent

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36561084

[Herbert Anchovy]

  Glyn, the EU put nothing into the North of the UK or any other part, they gave us back a little of what we contributed into the scam and spent the rest on themselves.

I remember watching Question Time many years ago and a representative from the Government (Labour at that time I think) expressing frustration that the UK Government had no say at all in where in the country EU funding was used.

[BillyStubbsTears]

  Glyn, the EU put nothing into the North of the UK or any other part, they gave us back a little of what we contributed into the scam and spent the rest on themselves.

The ignorance behind this post is simply stupifying.

[Colemans Left Hook]

We have, through 50 years of policies from both Tory and Labour Govts, allowed a situation to develop where the economic performance of the North vs the South is similar to what East to West Germany was like when the Berlin Wall came down.

Germany had a strong, long term policy then of investing in the old East Germany. It still hasn't caught up. Dresden is still poorer than Munich. Leipzig is still poorer than Cologne. But they have made massive strides. Saxony is now WAY richer than South Yorkshire or Merseyside.

I honestly do think that Johnson understands this. What I have never believed is that he has the political nerve to put in place the policies required. That means MASSIVE Govt borrowing and investment in the North. Or it means MASSIVE taxes on the rich South and investment in the North. Either will mean that the people of Guildford won't continue to be cocooned and pull away from the North like they have for the past half century. I'd honestly like to think that I'm wrong, but I just cannot see any Tory Govt fixing their colours to that mast for 30 years. I think they would pay lip service to it when it suits, but when times get tough, I can't see any outcome put them reverting to type and protecting their heartland.

for what it's worth ...  me seems to recall the "toilet paper" east german "mark" was "effectively exchanged " on a 1 to 1 ... west german mark  to so called east german mark

this backs it up

https://www.quora.com/Did-the-official-exchange-rate-between-West-German-Deutsche-Mark-and-the-East-German-Mark-used-during-German-reunification-devalue-the-DM-at-all-What-were-some-other-proposed-plans-for-economic-integration-of-the

"So the Kohl government decided to accept the 1:1 rate as part of the price of reunification in the name of social stability and economic parity, though there was an upper limit on how many Ostmark could be exchanged at 1:1 by individuals. It was a political, not an economic decision — and frankly the only solution that made much sense under the circumstances."

[BillyStubbsTears]

We have, through 50 years of policies from both Tory and Labour Govts, allowed a situation to develop where the economic performance of the North vs the South is similar to what East to West Germany was like when the Berlin Wall came down.

Germany had a strong, long term policy then of investing in the old East Germany. It still hasn't caught up. Dresden is still poorer than Munich. Leipzig is still poorer than Cologne. But they have made massive strides. Saxony is now WAY richer than South Yorkshire or Merseyside.

I honestly do think that Johnson understands this. What I have never believed is that he has the political nerve to put in place the policies required. That means MASSIVE Govt borrowing and investment in the North. Or it means MASSIVE taxes on the rich South and investment in the North. Either will mean that the people of Guildford won't continue to be cocooned and pull away from the North like they have for the past half century. I'd honestly like to think that I'm wrong, but I just cannot see any Tory Govt fixing their colours to that mast for 30 years. I think they would pay lip service to it when it suits, but when times get tough, I can't see any outcome put them reverting to type and protecting their heartland.

Happened a lot sooner than I expected. The social care NI rise will hit everyone in work, across the whole country. Meanwhile, because the purpose of the tax is to limit the costs that individuals run up, meaning well off pensioners don't lose their houses, guess which parts of the country benefit most. (Clue: it sure ain't the Red Wall.)

https://mobile.twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1436324842584920072

[drfchound]

We have, through 50 years of policies from both Tory and Labour Govts, allowed a situation to develop where the economic performance of the North vs the South is similar to what East to West Germany was like when the Berlin Wall came down.

Germany had a strong, long term policy then of investing in the old East Germany. It still hasn't caught up. Dresden is still poorer than Munich. Leipzig is still poorer than Cologne. But they have made massive strides. Saxony is now WAY richer than South Yorkshire or Merseyside.

I honestly do think that Johnson understands this. What I have never believed is that he has the political nerve to put in place the policies required. That means MASSIVE Govt borrowing and investment in the North. Or it means MASSIVE taxes on the rich South and investment in the North. Either will mean that the people of Guildford won't continue to be cocooned and pull away from the North like they have for the past half century. I'd honestly like to think that I'm wrong, but I just cannot see any Tory Govt fixing their colours to that mast for 30 years. I think they would pay lip service to it when it suits, but when times get tough, I can't see any outcome put them reverting to type and protecting their heartland.

Happened a lot sooner than I expected. The social care NI rise will hit everyone in work, across the whole country. Meanwhile, because the purpose of the tax is to limit the costs that individuals run up, meaning well off pensioners don't lose their houses, guess which parts of the country benefit most. (Clue: it sure ain't the Red Wall.)

https://mobile.twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1436324842584920072

You really do have a weird obsession with pensioners that have put together a decent standard of living to survive on in their old age.

[tyke1962]

We have, through 50 years of policies from both Tory and Labour Govts, allowed a situation to develop where the economic performance of the North vs the South is similar to what East to West Germany was like when the Berlin Wall came down.

Germany had a strong, long term policy then of investing in the old East Germany. It still hasn't caught up. Dresden is still poorer than Munich. Leipzig is still poorer than Cologne. But they have made massive strides. Saxony is now WAY richer than South Yorkshire or Merseyside.

I honestly do think that Johnson understands this. What I have never believed is that he has the political nerve to put in place the policies required. That means MASSIVE Govt borrowing and investment in the North. Or it means MASSIVE taxes on the rich South and investment in the North. Either will mean that the people of Guildford won't continue to be cocooned and pull away from the North like they have for the past half century. I'd honestly like to think that I'm wrong, but I just cannot see any Tory Govt fixing their colours to that mast for 30 years. I think they would pay lip service to it when it suits, but when times get tough, I can't see any outcome put them reverting to type and protecting their heartland.

Happened a lot sooner than I expected. The social care NI rise will hit everyone in work, across the whole country. Meanwhile, because the purpose of the tax is to limit the costs that individuals run up, meaning well off pensioners don't lose their houses, guess which parts of the country benefit most. (Clue: it sure ain't the Red Wall.)

https://mobile.twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1436324842584920072

You really do have a weird obsession with pensioners that have put together a decent standard of living to survive on in their old age.

I take your point Hound that pensioners for the most part have paid all their working lives .

The problem is they didn't pay enough and now that falls to many younger people possibly renting their homes and on low incomes .

There's pensioners and there's pensioners too let's not forget many of whom have enjoyed the boom in house prices , final salary pensions , strong trade union benefits and economic growth .

It's unlikely the generations of today will have it quite so good .

[Hounslowrover]

Have to agree Tyke, also pensioners were not expected to live so long after retirement, so our contributions weren’t enough.

[SydneyRover]

Have to agree Tyke, also pensioners were not expected to live so long after retirement, so our contributions weren’t enough.

It rekindles the faith to read that there are those that understand how they have benefitted from circumstance as well as their work but are willing to share the load.

[scawsby steve]

Have to agree Tyke, also pensioners were not expected to live so long after retirement, so our contributions weren’t enough.

It rekindles the faith to read that there are those that understand how they have benefitted from circumstance as well as their work but are willing to share the load.

"Share the load"?

What does that mean?

[River Don]

The idea and points are fine. But they've been ideas and points for some time now.  Nearly 2 years since the election and no proposals in place.  Ideas don't create jobs and wealth....

I also think the number of well off people who are against others becoming well off is small.  Clearly there will always be people with more wealth than others but if we can increase the wealth of everyone that makes everyone stronger. More wealth equals more spending which equals stronger companies and ultimately stronger investments which tend to benefit the highest more anyway.

It's been 11 years since the Tories came to power with the Northern Powerhouse agenda.

Which has so far produced...I'll get back to you on that one.

The big ideas for the Northern Powerhouse appeared to be: linking Manchester and Leeds with a half decent rail link and fracking the f**k out of what's left of the coal fields to exploit the natural gas that remains locked in it.

Only fracking was reliant on a high gas price price for it to be viable and at the time that wasn't the case. Oh and the unfortunate earthquakes. It might even be becoming viable now but the idea of fracking the desolate North, releasing a whole load of emissions is no longer acceptable... Even for the Tories, who used to claim it would be environmentally friendly. Heh.

And somehow they never got around to the rail link. Probably because the main driver of that idea was George Osbourne... And Brexit got rid of him.

[SydneyRover]

Have to agree Tyke, also pensioners were not expected to live so long after retirement, so our contributions weren’t enough.

It rekindles the faith to read that there are those that understand how they have benefitted from circumstance as well as their work but are willing to share the load.

"Share the load"?

What does that mean?

It means that some are willing to understand the difficulties that following generations are under as the retired generation have had the advantage of cheaper housing and plenty, probably too many are buying up second homes making it doubly difficult for other generations to buy their first. And they are also willing to pay more tax if the tax load was equitable.

Anything else SS?

[scawsby steve]

Have to agree Tyke, also pensioners were not expected to live so long after retirement, so our contributions weren’t enough.

It rekindles the faith to read that there are those that understand how they have benefitted from circumstance as well as their work but are willing to share the load.

"Share the load"?

What does that mean?

It means that some are willing to understand the difficulties that following generations are under as the retired generation have had the advantage of cheaper housing and plenty, probably too many are buying up second homes making it doubly difficult for other generations to buy their first. And they are also willing to pay more tax if the tax load was equitable.

Anything else SS?

Once again your poor understanding of semantics has lead to you utterly and totally failing to answer the question, something you accuse other people of doing.