Tonights meeting report - Part 2

[silent majority]

Richie mentioned a couple of other things which were important to the meeting. Firstly, he talked about where his starting position was in terms of squad quality and style and the fact that he’s had to start at zero. The club needed a complete rebuild which is why the work he needs to do will not be done in one window, or even two. This season is consolidation and next season will be the push. To illustrate his point he asked how much work did Grant McCann have to do when he inherited the squad left behind by Darren Ferguson. I remember those times quite explicitly because it was part and parcel of his interview at DRFC; he made a special point of saying he needed very little in terms of new bodies and didn’t dip into the transfer budget for quite some time. A point well made.

Of course this time its different. Richie has had to start at zero yet he was extremely pleased with the early work he’d done. Those players he is recruiting for the long term are beginning to be assembled and we already have 12 players contracted beyond next season. The idea is that each window he will attract 3 or 4 new players to supplement his team and build from there. We can’t operate effectively if we must replace 15 players every season.

Richie also expressed his satisfaction with the budget and said he’d stayed withing budget at the other clubs he’s worked at. He doesn’t see that as an issue. What he did elaborate on was the budget had been used up to certain extent by the time he arrived here. Previously contracted players take up a proportion of the budget and his only way of controlling that is to move players out who he doesn’t see as contributing to the long term future and success of the club.

When asked about other strikers, apart from those mentioned, he did say that they had identified a few but that ‘the figures were ridiculous’. In other words, the salaries and transfer fees being talked about in League 1 this season were ‘a joke’. Of course, we are in a strange situation this season because of all the ex-EPL clubs that are in there and how big their budgets are. Richie did say that Ipswich would have a budget 7 times bigger than ours, and yet they have one point more than us. Only 3 clubs will be promoted this season, and yet quite a number have spent large sums already. The pressure on some of those clubs and mangers to deliver will be immense and of course there will be quite a few failures.

Richie did admit to having learnt lessons from this window, especially the loss of Aiden O’Brien, and said that he would drive up to Sunderland in future and sit with them to make sure the paperwork was done correctly. We have to assume that IT issues can and will occur and we need to take action to mitigate that in future.

After John Marquis was sold the comment ‘he will be replaced with a like for like striker with a proven pedigree’ wasn’t made by the board or CEO. It was made by Darren Moore who then changed his mind and pulled out of the deal shortly after making that comment. (That’s something we got used to with DM)

We discussed the young players that Richie has been forced to using in recent matches. The idea is that given the option he will play one or two and utilise the experienced players around them to bring them through, but the current setup is not one he would normally utilise. His players have very little experience in terms of matches played and that some of the younger ones haven’t played in front of a crowd before! There is no way any of those could be criticised, they will make mistakes, obviously, but they need to be applauded for the effort and encouraged. Developing the younger ones will become part of the club going forward and we will dip into the academy where and when appropriate.

Richie also explained a little how his playing committee works (I’m not sure if he called it that). But essentially there is himself, his coaching staff, senior players like Tom Anderson and Jamie Coppinger, talent manager Graham Younger, and they direct all playing matters, recruitment issues and work towards a common philosophy. It was pleasing to hear that JC plays a part in all of our recruitment now!

We asked questions about the current board and ownership. Gavin explained that the Club Doncaster model had been incredibly successful and was generating revenue so that it can sustain the club. Any extra revenue is directed straight into the playing budget. This has several benefits. Firstly, it means that we are a club with no debts which would make us extremely attractive to a 3rd party when compared to other clubs. It also means that if we were to lose our main shareholders, for whatever reason, we would be able to initiate a succession plan relatively easily. This also allows the current ownership to act as a backstop and ensure that we are more sustainable than most clubs out there. We have gone from losing £10m a season into a club that can hold its own and doesn’t have to be funded to stand still.

There has been no change with what the club are striving to achieve, and that the board are still committed to pushing the club higher. The 5-year plan still exists, (and was pointed out that 92 clubs in the English game have 5 year plans) but it is amended each season depending on where we find ourselves. We have been hamstrung in recent years because of the turnover in managers, something that we hope to have dealt with by appointing Richie on a long-term basis. Richie himself wants to compete at a higher level with us, but to do that he needs time to rebuild form where we are.

Our current Chairman works internally on the business side of the club and leaves the footballing side to those whose responsibility it is. Likewise with the communications and supporter facing roles. They are handled by the COO and CEO respectively.

I did ask the question if Richie had spoken to Sean O’Driscoll since becoming manager of DRFC. He said he hadn’t but had spoken to him numerous times prior to that!

In summary, I thought the meeting was a tremendous success. Having the manager in attendance provided us with Richie’s thoughts and comments directly, not censored or interpreted by the CEO and or any other media.

I have a meeting scheduled with Gavin next week in which case will go into much more detail about the recruitment process, the football plan, the Club Doncaster business model etc. It’s a meeting we are both really looking forward and I believe it could be insightful.

Of course, I’ll report back when that takes place.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Many thanks for that SM.

Do you know in which season we lost £10M?

[SoundbiteBarmyArmy]

Thanks, as always, sir.

I'm interested as to how Club Doncaster is being dubbed a success? Dons get 300 fans a game, can't imagine Belles get anymore. Or has Club Doncaster changed/have I missed something?

[GazLaz]

Whoever is on the “paying committee”/recruitment panel whatever you want to call it must not watch football. It’s impossible to want to sign Grigg one minute then O’Brien the next. Absolutely zero joined up thinking there. It’s like trying to sign Nial Quinn and then saying you want Kevin Phillips. Completely different players. They are making it up as they go along and you can’t be successful doing that. How many times have they all watched Vilca play before signing him? Probably never. You can’t make decisions like that. He may be a great signing but there’s no real accountability if he isn’t.

[GazLaz]

Many thanks for that SM.

Do you know in which season we lost £10M?

We’ve never lost £10m in a season, I’d be pretty sure of that.

[silent majority]

Thanks, as always, sir.

I'm interested as to how Club Doncaster is being dubbed a success? Dons get 300 fans a game, can't imagine Belles get anymore. Or has Club Doncaster changed/have I missed something?

I can go into more detail after my meeting with Gavin next week.

However you missed out the education side i.e the 6th form academy, the largest in Doncaster, the Club Doncaster Sports Academy, the partners involved, the renting out of office space, the Car boot sale etc.

Its not just about how many supporters go through the turnstiles. In fact that's the whole point, its to generate revenue elsewhere, in other words 'sweating your assets'.

[mpc123]

Thanks, as always, sir.

I'm interested as to how Club Doncaster is being dubbed a success? Dons get 300 fans a game, can't imagine Belles get anymore. Or has Club Doncaster changed/have I missed something?

Well for starters dons and belles still exist of which has always been a struggle.

Rovers now pretty secure

That is success of Club Doncaster.

[River Don]

There might be something in that Gaz but Richie is a part of the playing committee, being the first team manager I assume he heads it up? Unless someone can put me right on that. Perhaps questions about how the club targets and recruits players needs to be directed at him? After all the side he's building is his vision.

[silent majority]

Many thanks for that SM.

Do you know in which season we lost £10M?

It was just a figure used and was used to make a point of how the Club Doncaster model has changed the objectives and approach in the business. It wasn't meant to apply to any particular season.

But if memory serves me right we weren't far off when we were relegated during the experiment season.

[Filo]

Are they aware of the unease amongst the fan base at the way things are panning out?

[NickDRFC]

Many thanks for that SM.

Do you know in which season we lost £10M?

It was just a figure used and was used to make a point of how the Club Doncaster model has changed the objectives and approach in the business. It wasn't meant to apply to any particular season.

But if memory serves me right we weren't far off when we were relegated during the experiment season.

More like £3.5m that year, nowhere near £10m.

[GazLaz]

Many thanks for that SM.

Do you know in which season we lost £10M?

It was just a figure used and was used to make a point of how the Club Doncaster model has changed the objectives and approach in the business. It wasn't meant to apply to any particular season.

But if memory serves me right we weren't far off when we were relegated during the experiment season.

I know you are just quoting Martin but they shouldn’t really use over exaggerated figures to try and soften their side of an argument. Just use exact figures if they want to make a point like that surely.

[andyst79]

Whoever is on the “paying committee”/recruitment panel whatever you want to call it must not watch football. It’s impossible to want to sign Grigg one minute then O’Brien the next. Absolutely zero joined up thinking there. It’s like trying to sign Nial Quinn and then saying you want Kevin Phillips. Completely different players. They are making it up as they go along and you can’t be successful doing that. How many times have they all watched Vilca play before signing him? Probably never. You can’t make decisions like that. He may be a great signing but there’s no real accountability if he isn’t.

Could it not be possible Wellens has come across Vilca while watching his son play for Man u?

[GazLaz]

Whoever is on the “paying committee”/recruitment panel whatever you want to call it must not watch football. It’s impossible to want to sign Grigg one minute then O’Brien the next. Absolutely zero joined up thinking there. It’s like trying to sign Nial Quinn and then saying you want Kevin Phillips. Completely different players. They are making it up as they go along and you can’t be successful doing that. How many times have they all watched Vilca play before signing him? Probably never. You can’t make decisions like that. He may be a great signing but there’s no real accountability if he isn’t.

Could it not be possible Wellens has come across Vilca while watching his son play for Man u?

Not impossible but looking at the records, United haven’t played Newcastle in any meaningful game at u23s level. Not to say there hasn’t been a friendly that hasn’t been recorded.

[RoverBB]

Many thanks for that SM.

Do you know in which season we lost £10M?

We’ve never lost £10m in a season, I’d be pretty sure of that.

2012/13

[Campsall rover]

Thanks again SM

Gives a great insight into the real world that Rovers live in.
We are so lucky.

It also shows when TB does call it a day and that day will come sometime, that the club can sustain itself without his financial input.

[Upton Rover]

Don’t think we need a talent manager, save the cash

[andyst79]

I know it happens but I don't see Wellens signing a loan player who he's never seen play, unless he's come highly recommended by a reliable source who he trusts. Imagine the lad wasn't his primary target 2nd or 3rd choice maybe.

[sha66y]

Good read

[Campsall rover]

Also SM it does show that communication from the club both direct to the supporters through the web site and the media needs to be more frequent and comprehensive.
Also the part you play is vital through forums such as this one and these meetings and your feed back is vital to keeping all our fans updated on exactly what has happened, is happening now and what is planned going forward.

Communication is key. We have seen the melt down over the last 48hrs on social media and forums.

Thanks again SM your work on our behalf is appreciated by me and i am quite sure it is by most of our supporters. 

[normal rules]

Thanks Martin. This sounds positive.
Onwards and upwards.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Many thanks for that SM.

Do you know in which season we lost £10M?

It was just a figure used and was used to make a point of how the Club Doncaster model has changed the objectives and approach in the business. It wasn't meant to apply to any particular season.

But if memory serves me right we weren't far off when we were relegated during the experiment season.

I know you are just quoting Martin but they shouldn’t really use over exaggerated figures to try and soften their side of an argument. Just use exact figures if they want to make a point like that surely.

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. I'm pretty sure we SPENT £10m in 11/12, rather than lost that amount. Easy slip to make.

[Donnybax]

Whoever is on the “paying committee”/recruitment panel whatever you want to call it must not watch football. It’s impossible to want to sign Grigg one minute then O’Brien the next. Absolutely zero joined up thinking there. It’s like trying to sign Nial Quinn and then saying you want Kevin Phillips. Completely different players. They are making it up as they go along and you can’t be successful doing that. How many times have they all watched Vilca play before signing him? Probably never. You can’t make decisions like that. He may be a great signing but there’s no real accountability if he isn’t.

Could it not be possible Wellens has come across Vilca while watching his son play for Man u?

SM said in the other threat that Vilca comes highly recommended. Based on that I would say none of our recruitment team have seen him play.

[Campsall rover]

Reading back some of these posts.

Some people still do not get it.  5 yr plans need to be adjusted due to circumstances.
We have had 3 managers in 4 seasons ( not counting Butts or Wellens )
We have had a pandemic with no income.  So is it not obvious there has been a problem in keeping on track with the original business plan.

You cannot legislate for Managers leaving. If RW does stay 3/4 5 years then we will have made serious progress on the field of play. That i am 99.9% sure about.

What is it about the way the club is run that some do not approve of?
No the club is not perfect. Yes they get things wrong sometimes.
But seriously if a few ( or more than a few ) people can’t see the long term ambitions of the club  now then i do not think they wish to do so or are just determined never to deviate from their own personal negative sometimes hateful agenda’s.

Very sad imo.   

[GazLaz]

Reading back some of these posts.

Some people still do not get it.  5 yr plans need to be adjusted due to circumstances.
We have had 3 managers in 4 seasons ( not counting Butts or Wellens )
We have had a pandemic with no income.  So is it not obvious there has been a problem in keeping on track with the original business plan.

You cannot legislate for Managers leaving. If RW does stay 3/4 5 years then we will have made serious progress on the field of play. That i am 99.9% sure about.

What is it about the way the club is run that some do not approve of?
No the club is not perfect. Yes they get things wrong sometimes.
But seriously if a few ( or more than a few ) people can’t see the long term ambitions of the club  now then i do not think they wish to do so or are just determined never to deviate from their own personal negative sometimes hateful agenda’s.

Very sad imo.   

You can legislate for managers leaving. It’s what happens in football.

[GazLaz]

Whoever is on the “paying committee”/recruitment panel whatever you want to call it must not watch football. It’s impossible to want to sign Grigg one minute then O’Brien the next. Absolutely zero joined up thinking there. It’s like trying to sign Nial Quinn and then saying you want Kevin Phillips. Completely different players. They are making it up as they go along and you can’t be successful doing that. How many times have they all watched Vilca play before signing him? Probably never. You can’t make decisions like that. He may be a great signing but there’s no real accountability if he isn’t.

Could it not be possible Wellens has come across Vilca while watching his son play for Man u?

SM said in the other threat that Vilca comes highly recommended. Based on that I would say none of our recruitment team have seen him play.

Hopefully it’s not the same person that suggested Cukur then. It’s prehistoric how our recruitment is run.

[jamesrover17]

Reading back some of these posts.

Some people still do not get it.  5 yr plans need to be adjusted due to circumstances.
We have had 3 managers in 4 seasons ( not counting Butts or Wellens )
We have had a pandemic with no income.  So is it not obvious there has been a problem in keeping on track with the original business plan.

You cannot legislate for Managers leaving. If RW does stay 3/4 5 years then we will have made serious progress on the field of play. That i am 99.9% sure about.

What is it about the way the club is run that some do not approve of?
No the club is not perfect. Yes they get things wrong sometimes.
But seriously if a few ( or more than a few ) people can’t see the long term ambitions of the club  now then i do not think they wish to do so or are just determined never to deviate from their own personal negative sometimes hateful agenda’s.

Very sad imo.   

You can legislate for managers leaving. It’s what happens in football.

Other than players moving is probably the most common occurrence, I think they tried to have a succession plan in Butler to legislate for Moore leaving but that obviously didn't work out, I still think if we went out and appointed Wellens in February (or whenever it was he left Salford) when Moore first left we wouldn't be in the same predicament

[SydneyRover]

Many thanks SM, it really is interesting to be able to see into the workings of the club and those that run it to this level of detail.

[EasyforDennis]

Interesting to read one part of your report. "We have gone from losing £10m a season into a club that can hold its own and doesn’t have to be funded to stand still."
Does this mean that TB no longer needs put in the £2m for this and future seasons?

[Campsall rover]

Reading back some of these posts.

Some people still do not get it.  5 yr plans need to be adjusted due to circumstances.
We have had 3 managers in 4 seasons ( not counting Butts or Wellens )
We have had a pandemic with no income.  So is it not obvious there has been a problem in keeping on track with the original business plan.

You cannot legislate for Managers leaving. If RW does stay 3/4 5 years then we will have made serious progress on the field of play. That i am 99.9% sure about.

What is it about the way the club is run that some do not approve of?
No the club is not perfect. Yes they get things wrong sometimes.
But seriously if a few ( or more than a few ) people can%u2019t see the long term ambitions of the club  now then i do not think they wish to do so or are just determined never to deviate from their own personal negative sometimes hateful agenda%u2019s.

Very sad imo.   

You can legislate for managers leaving. It%u2019s what happens in football.

Your completely missing the point.

If the manager changes every year it is impossible to get stability. Surely you understand that.

The club did not know DF, GM and DM were going to walk.  Plans are made on the basis they are staying.
You cannot plan for a future manager until he arrives.

We have had massive disruption for 3 years. Then the pandemic.

Hopefully we will have several years of stability now under RW.  If we do we will make serious progress.