Racism in hungary

[sha66y]

Why won’t the white footballers walk off the pitch if their black team mates are being racially abused?
If we the public are being urged at every point and turn to throw racism out of any and all sport, …..

Then perhaps these athletes should set the tone with intent..

 they should unilaterally make a statement that will shake every governing sports body and huge financial institutions by refusing to participate in any arena that shows no willingness to stamp out racism…

However ….i don’t think certain powers want this to happen

[sha66y]

Fascinating.

Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.

Can you explain this BST ….using context for us thickies?

[tyke1962]

Fascinating.

Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.

What a utterly ridiculous thing to post .

[tyke1962]

Do you support blm Tyke?

What's that got to do with anything ?

[belton rover]

Fascinating.

Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.

Can you explain this BST ….using context for us thickies?

I think I can, Sha66y:

Billy is effectively, yet ignorantly and incorrectly accusing poster/s of treating black people with contempt; indirectly accusing them of racism.

Correct me if I’m wrong, Billy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.
Which part of my post is ridiculous? Your posts have been precisely of that type. Telling black men how they should and shouldn't respond to abuse.

[sha66y]

Fascinating.

Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.

Can you explain this BST ….using context for us thickies?

I think I can, Sha66y:

Billy is effectively, yet ignorantly and incorrectly accusing poster/s of treating black people with contempt; indirectly accusing them of racism.

Correct me if I’m wrong, Billy.

I read it this way:
Black footballer/sportsperson gets racially abused and when a white person likes me says “ make a real stance and refuse to play”  because that will force change ….

the black person shouldn’t do as I say because I’m white?

Good advice has no colour surely?

[BillyStubbsTears]

And lazily chucking around meaningless terms like "virtue signalling" isn't precisely what I said? A white person telling a black person what is an acceptable way to respond to racial abuse.

[sha66y]

And lazily chucking around meaningless terms like "virtue signalling" isn't precisely what I said? A white person telling a black person what is an acceptable way to respond to racial abuse.

Are you then saying a white person should not tell a black person how to respond to racial abuse?? …….quite baffling this!

[tyke1962]

Tyke.
Which part of my post is ridiculous? Your posts have been precisely of that type. Telling black men how they should and shouldn't respond to abuse.

It's ridiculous because FIFA and UEFA have procedures in place to deal with the incidents we saw in Budapest .

I suspect those procedures weren't decided by an all black committee given its pretty straightforward to assume monkey chants aren't acceptable no matter the colour of your skin .

Southgate and his players decided not to act on Thursday night despite procedures in place .

Qualification for the world cup was deemed more important it seems .

I personally don't have to have black skin to understand that .

[BillyStubbsTears]

And there we go Tyke.

You, a white man are deciding how black men should respond to racist abuse.

You conclude that because they responded in the way they did, they don't really care about racism, they are more interested in 3 points.

And you conclude from that that when they DO display their feelings about racism, that is virtue signalling.

Do you see the issue I'm having with that?

[hstripes]

I didn't see the incidents and wasn't even aware England had played until I saw the media reports in relation to them.

Assuming they were as bad as reported I wish that the England (and Hungary) players had shown the courage to walk off the pitch.

Where such things occur, regardless of what happens ON the pitch, a 5-0 defeat should be awarded to the team with the miscreant supporters. Both a deterrent and sends out a strong message that such behaviour is utterly unacceptable.

[hstripes]

Couldn't agree more with most of your post NR. Hungary is a deeply problematic place and the behaviour of their fans reflects the traditions there and their current government. It's up to authorities to clamp down hard on this behaviour.

You'd expect me to disagree on the EU and I do up to a point. A key aim of the EU has always been to cement democratic norms in a fractured continent and mostly it has been an unqualified success. There were fascist regimes in many countries just years before they joined the EU. Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece. It's unthinkable that they could go fascist again. But the EU has slipped up badly in Hungary, allowing them to slide away from democracy without action being taken. And it emboldens the Kitsons in their black shirts spewing their filth tonight.

Sorry to go off topic here but "A key aim of the EU has always been to cement democratic norms" is just errant nonsense.

The EU itself is fundamentally and demonstrably undemocratic both structurally and procedurally. One of it's key stated aims is 'ever closer union', meaning removing powers from democratically elected governments and taking them for itself.

The key political aim of the EU is to provide stable, long-term, centrist policy through avoiding the whims and vagaries of the populace at the ballot box.

The EU is not a defender of democracy or democratic norms. It is a Meritocracy and therefore an enemy to democracy.

If you had said 'a key aim of the EU has been to oppose political extremism in a fractured continent' well then I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly.

As for Hungary - it is a democracy. Free elections are held regularly and the population consistently vote in a far right government. Morally we can oppose this but diplomatically the countries of the world must respect this democratic decision. The EU therefore are powerless to do much about it short of counter-productively expelling them from the Union.

[tyke1962]

And there we go Tyke.

You, a white man are deciding how black men should respond to racist abuse.

You conclude that because they responded in the way they did, they don't really care about racism, they are more interested in 3 points.

And you conclude from that that when they DO display their feelings about racism, that is virtue signalling.

Do you see the issue I'm having with that?

What clearly escapes you is that actions speak louder than words .

When the England players were celebrating in front of the Hungarian ultras and getting pelted with cups and monkey noises were clearly heard then why didn't they walk off ?

What was stopping them ?

They continued to play the game and then complain afterwards when they had three world cup points in the bag .

Are you seriously suggesting only a black person is allowed to say that ?I

That's what I saw right in front of me , the England players took the knee at the start of the game and when the racism was directed against at least two of the players they did nowt about it .

How much evidence of virtue signalling do you need ?

[River Don]

So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?

Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.

Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?

After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.

[tyke1962]

So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?

Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.

Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?

After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.

So basically kicking out racism and standing up to it only qualifies when it doesn't become difficult .

Like dropping on one knee with a round of applause ringing around the stadium , job done .

To tell the truth I find the whole thing highly frustrating .

Frustrating to see plenty of rattle and very little substance especially when you witness such vile scenes as in Budapest .

You can be sure Wrighty , Rio and Mika will be in Qatar on a good wedge and on our tv sets .

Sterling leading the line up top and Gareth defending the knee taking .

The loss of 6k migrant lives and appalling human rights records will be conveniently brushed under the carpet of course .

The hypocrisy is barely believable .

[sha66y]

So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?

Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.

Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?

After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.

No !! And thrice NO,
They should have walked off because they were being racially abused…..no politics just a real act ….

What fcukin repercussions??

By walking off they are sending a very clear message to the world “ stamp this shit out or we ALL down tools”

They would be heralded as heroes not vilified by their clubs…..

[River Don]

So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?

Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.

Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?

After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.

No !! And thrice NO,
They should have walked off because they were being racially abused…..no politics just a real act ….

What fcukin repercussions??

By walking off they are sending a very clear message to the world “ stamp this shit out or we ALL down tools”

They would be heralded as heroes not vilified by their clubs…..

Southgate doing it would send a stronger message.

The Football Association won't accept it.

What's more Southgate has a duty of care towards his players. Missle a are being thrown at them, God knows what it might be. For the players safety they should come off.

[belton rover]

But that would be a white man telling people of colour what to do.

[River Don]

But that would be a white man telling people of colour what to do.

He's the manager, he tells them what to do all the time.

In this situation he's the responsible person. He is the man who really represents the FA.

[belton rover]

I don’t disagree with you, River. But some folk think that is wrong.

[sha66y]

So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?

Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.

Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?

After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.

No !! And thrice NO,
They should have walked off because they were being racially abused…..no politics just a real act ….

What fcukin repercussions??

By walking off they are sending a very clear message to the world “ stamp this shit out or we ALL down tools”

They would be heralded as heroes not vilified by their clubs…..

Southgate doing it would send a stronger message.

The Football Association won't accept it.

What's more Southgate has a duty of care towards his players. Missle a are being thrown at them, God knows what it might be. For the players safety they should come off.

No ya wrong….the black players turn and walk off, …the rest of the team follow suit and the manager applauds them as they leave the field…..the Cameras wouldn’t know where to look….the sheer drama would have the money men quaking, ….

Then if every other national team who experience any form of racial abuse do the same, the game will be brought to its knees,

Now it gets political

[Bentley Bullet]

Surely if players start reacting to crowd behaviour it will be the start of a slippery slope? Would it encourage certain spectators to behave in such a way so as to deliberately stop a game that was not going in their favour?

[sha66y]

Surely if players start reacting to crowd behaviour it will be the start of a slippery slope? Would it encourage certain spectators to behave in such a way so as to deliberately stop a game that was not going in their favour?

That’s lame!

We are talking about racially abused human beings, not some silly reason to get a game called off!

Gestures need to go beyond the paying lip service…..ACTION,!!!

[Bentley Bullet]

Surely if players start reacting to crowd behaviour it will be the start of a slippery slope? Would it encourage certain spectators to behave in such a way so as to deliberately stop a game that was not going in their favour?

That’s lame!

We are talking about racially abused human beings, not some silly reason to get a game called off!

Gestures need to go beyond the paying lip service…..ACTION,!!!

But it would be an act by people who don't give a f**k about racially abused human beings who would decide to deliberately stop a game that was not going in their favour.

[River Don]

So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?

Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.

Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?

After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.

No !! And thrice NO,
They should have walked off because they were being racially abused…..no politics just a real act ….

What fcukin repercussions??

By walking off they are sending a very clear message to the world “ stamp this shit out or we ALL down tools”

They would be heralded as heroes not vilified by their clubs…..

They are young lads they don't know what the repercussions might be.

For one thing if a young black England player walked off because he was being racially abused, and England went on to lose, then might he not be afraid that English racists might target him for being disloyal?

There is a lot of pressure on young shoulders.

[idler]

It should be the people at the top leading by example.
Deduct points and make them play home games in a neutral country.
This would soon cost them so much money that the home football associations would have to act or go bankrupt.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It should be the people at the top leading by example.
Deduct points and make them play home games in a neutral country.
This would soon cost them so much money that the home football associations would have to act or go bankrupt.

Absolutely.

[selby]

  If there was a will at the top, the authorities would give the referee the authority to stop the game and take the players from the field of play while the stadium was cleared and then restart the game and finish it in front of empty stands, therefore punishing the guilty party.
   There is no will at the top table for that action, and any team that leaves the field of play will forfeit the points for that game and in future matches would be a target of the same treatment just to be awarded the points by default.
  The best alternative is to do exactly what England did the other night, make light of the abuse and whup their arses, a lot of the supporters who left that ground would have thought what a set of b******s that England side is blacks and whites all included they just rubbed our noses in the horse s**t, job done.
 

[sha66y]

It should be the people at the top leading by example.
Deduct points and make them play home games in a neutral country.
This would soon cost them so much money that the home football associations would have to act or go bankrupt.

And who exactly are these people at the top?