Ken Loach Speaks Out

[albie]

Put this on the fuel thread, but it is also relevant here.

"Good old Keith has reneged on the Labour commitment to public ownership of energy and utilities;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/26/starmer-labour-would-not-nationalise-big-six-energy-firms
Open goal, and Keith knocks it out of the ground.

Incredible incompetence, or a strategy to merge Labour with the Tory narrative?
Existential crises for Labour now, Keith will kill Labour as a viable force before the next election.

Some think that is his aim!"

Keith cannot even understand that public ownership of these industries is popular....so why would you abandon those policies which  enjoy public support?

[tyke1962]

Put this on the fuel thread, but it is also relevant here.

"Good old Keith has reneged on the Labour commitment to public ownership of energy and utilities;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/26/starmer-labour-would-not-nationalise-big-six-energy-firms
Open goal, and Keith knocks it out of the ground.

Incredible incompetence, or a strategy to merge Labour with the Tory narrative?
Existential crises for Labour now, Keith will kill Labour as a viable force before the next election.

Some think that is his aim!"

Keith cannot even understand that public ownership of these industries is popular....so why would you abandon those policies which  enjoy public support?

Because if the truth be known Keith and his centrist mob and supporters  are actually Liberals .

The Labour Party offers them a bigger stage for their thirst for  power and standing .

[albie]

Keith has been slapped down by Labour conference on public ownership of energy;
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/starmer-labour-nationalisation-energy-companies-b1927267.html

The bloke does not seem to understand the party, let alone the issue of dealing with fuel poverty.
If he reckons he can sort fuel poverty without taking the sector in house, then good luck with that.

Looking untenable for Keith now in the longer term, even the right must see that.

Remember Ian Duncan Smith getting the Tory bumsrush......will Labour flush Keith sooner, or wait for him to fail even more?

[drfchound]

Albie, I remember when Starmer won the leadership and he was feted as the man to lead Labour to a great victory and depose the government.
Things don’t appear to have gone to plan do they.
I feel sorry for him really as he has to deal with discontent in his Party but finds himself in a difficult position.
Rayner will soon be looking to jump into his shoes in my opinion.

[tyke1962]

Albie, I remember when Starmer won the leadership and he was feted as the man to lead Labour to a great victory and depose the government.
Things don’t appear to have gone to plan do they.
I feel sorry for him really as he has to deal with discontent in his Party but finds himself in a difficult position.
Rayner will soon be looking to jump into his shoes in my opinion.

Don't waste any pity on this charlatan hound he's brought this on all by himself .

He's the war mongerer , he's the aggressor and his slime ball partner Mandelson .

I was prepared to give him a good go despite our clear political differences in many areas but there's only so much you can stomach with his tribe .

The quicker he goes the better .

[scawsby steve]

Albie, I remember when Starmer won the leadership and he was feted as the man to lead Labour to a great victory and depose the government.
Things don’t appear to have gone to plan do they.
I feel sorry for him really as he has to deal with discontent in his Party but finds himself in a difficult position.
Rayner will soon be looking to jump into his shoes in my opinion.

Yes, mate, people enthusing on here about Starmer running rings round Johnson at the despatch box, as though that has any relevance; any f*cker could have done that.

It needs someone who can get the red wall back in the North and North-East, and that person definitely isn't Starmer. It needs Raynor, Burnham, or someone else to do that.

[drfchound]

Albie, I remember when Starmer won the leadership and he was feted as the man to lead Labour to a great victory and depose the government.
Things don’t appear to have gone to plan do they.
I feel sorry for him really as he has to deal with discontent in his Party but finds himself in a difficult position.
Rayner will soon be looking to jump into his shoes in my opinion.

Yes, mate, people enthusing on here about Starmer running rings round Johnson at the despatch box, as though that has any relevance; any f*cker could have done that.

It needs someone who can get the red wall back in the North and North-East, and that person definitely isn't Starmer. It needs Raynor, Burnham, or someone else to do that.

I really had no interest in politics at all until I joined this forum.
In my time on here I have read stuff that has been enlightening and some which has been downright one sided and blinkered. #bothsideism.
At first I was taken in by the opinions of some posters who appeared to know how things worked but over time it has become apparent that there are so many varying points of view on so many subjects that I have come to realise why I didn’t really have any interest in politics.

[tyke1962]

Albie, I remember when Starmer won the leadership and he was feted as the man to lead Labour to a great victory and depose the government.
Things don’t appear to have gone to plan do they.
I feel sorry for him really as he has to deal with discontent in his Party but finds himself in a difficult position.
Rayner will soon be looking to jump into his shoes in my opinion.

Yes, mate, people enthusing on here about Starmer running rings round Johnson at the despatch box, as though that has any relevance; any f*cker could have done that.

It needs someone who can get the red wall back in the North and North-East, and that person definitely isn't Starmer. It needs Raynor, Burnham, or someone else to do that.

Maybe the future of the Labour Party  hinges on Marcus Rashford receiving a career ending ACL .

He's done more for disadvantaged people in the last 12 months than Keith would do if he was PM for three  terms .

Not that it will happen mind .

[SydneyRover]

I'm an angry old man, so angry I'm damn well going to do ................... nothing

[tyke1962]

I'm an angry old man, so angry I'm damn well going to do ................... nothing

I wouldn't go as far as to say Keith is  old but I take your point .

How's the weather today in Oz Sid ?

[SydneyRover]

I'm an angry old man, so angry I'm damn well going to do ................... nothing

I wouldn't go as far as to say Keith is  old but I take your point .

How's the weather today in Oz Sid ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ9myHhpS9s

[SydneyRover]

People have died in the fight for the right to vote, in my view if you don't intend to vote then you don't get a say.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Keith has been slapped down by Labour conference on public ownership of energy;
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/starmer-labour-nationalisation-energy-companies-b1927267.html

The bloke does not seem to understand the party, let alone the issue of dealing with fuel poverty.
If he reckons he can sort fuel poverty without taking the sector in house, then good luck with that.

Looking untenable for Keith now in the longer term, even the right must see that.

Remember Ian Duncan Smith getting the Tory bumsrush......will Labour flush Keith sooner, or wait for him to fail even more?

Good luck keeping prices down without competition.

[tyke1962]

People have died in the fight for the right to vote, in my view if you don't intend to vote then you don't get a say.

Quite right Sid , especially those who fecked off to warmer climates and are citizens of hmm ..... Well you tell me .

[DonnyOsmond]

Tyke, have you considered voting for the Greens or NIP?

[SydneyRover]

People have died in the fight for the right to vote, in my view if you don't intend to vote then you don't get a say.

Quite right Sid , especially those who fecked off to warmer climates and are citizens of hmm ..... Well you tell me .

You're sounding more like the tory you're helping elect every day they're not big on aliens either.

Try to prove your credentials by being the angriest man in Britain about the state of politics is only showing that you are beyond the point of rationality that you're so angry that you can't do anything.

You are denying the generations following the benefits the generations before you fought for, do you think they had the luxury of a nice pension or even the right to vote?

You are not making any sense by just being angry and showing how angry you are if you don't actually do anything about it.

Epitaph of a warrior 'I did my bit'

Listening to you is like a monty python sketch where 'I used to live in't puddle'

You are not impressing anyone because you are not doing anything except talking big.

[SydneyRover]

Filo was only talking about compromise earlier and look what has happened at the conference

''Labour leadership rule changes pass after last-minute Unison backing
Narrow victory at conference after members had torn into Starmer’s plan ends difficult week for leader''

I won't put up a link as I know you will have read about it, I guess this will make you more angry.

[SydneyRover]

People have died in the fight for the right to vote, in my view if you don't intend to vote then you don't get a say.

Quite right Sid , especially those who fecked off to warmer climates and are citizens of hmm ..... Well you tell me .

Showing your ignorance here tyke, you don't appear to understand the place international politics has in the modern world, how political parties of similar flavours help each other out. Look how Morrison (Oz PM) sucked up to trump and then how biden has told him where he he shove his trade deal, a bit similar to johnson's position.

Getting good results in one country always helps others, it gives the strength, like when I think of your comments ............. give me strength.

[albie]

BFYP,

Gas prices are mainly determined by international markets, and constraints on supply.

The idea that they are kept low by competition in a single country market is not correct.
Many suppliers duplicating admin costs, and looking to secure small supply deals are at a disadvantage compared to a large unit buyer.

It is a myth put about to justify the sale of public assets to private interests who need to meet shareholder returns.
Monies lost to dividends is money not invested in the system.

[scawsby steve]

I'm an angry old man, so angry I'm damn well going to do ................... nothing

You don't have to do anything, Syd old boy; just relax on Bondi Beach.

It'll help ease the pain of Starmer's dicking at the next GE. That is, if he's not removed before then.

[albie]

Andy McDonald resigns from Starmer shitshow;
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1442524697346945032/photo/1

What a fiasco!

[BillyStubbsTears]

It really is Albie.

McDonald has resigned in protest at being told to oppose the Minimum Wage being set at the level of the median wage.

Just ponder that for a moment then come back and explain McDonald's logic to me.

[albie]

Not sure why you are asking me, BST, I am not Andy McDonald.

What do you think the minimum wage and statutory sick pay should be?

The £10 figure was first agreed in 2015 I think. Labour cannot win power before 2024.

You are aware that the £10 figure is below the current living wage figure for London weighting?

Keith has form on this;
https://twitter.com/i/status/1442561275515613190

Two faced Keith speaks with forked tongue!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.

You think it's a fiasco that McDonald has resigned. Given that a major stated reason for his fury with Starmer is the minimum wage issue, I'm asking you to enlighten me how that is supposed to work.

What Starmer's office did was instruct him not to support a policy that is a logical impossibility. Him resigning over that, and being lauded across the Left says everything about the current state of the Left.

[albie]

BST,

No, the fiasco is the management of conference under the control of Mandelson and the hard right.

The minimum wage is implemented by legislation.....what is difficult to understand here?
I don't know what you are talking about, "logical impossibility".....what drivel.

So, could you answer my question what does the Labour right think is a fair minimum wage for 2024?

Inflation will hit 4% this year, according to the Bank of England forecast.
It looks very much like you support in reality a cut in purchasing power, hence living standards.

You are beginning to sound like a Boris fanboy!

[BillyStubbsTears]

It is a logical impossibility to have a minimum wage at the level of the median wage.

Stop chucking the insults out and muddying the water by wrongly claiming what I think  for a moment and think why.

[albie]

The median wage will rise in tandem with the increase in the minimum wage.

Sorry if you took offence at light hearted jibes.

Now stop the bullshit and answer the question asked;
"So, could you answer my question what does the Labour right think is a fair minimum wage for 2024?"

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've no idea what "the Labour right" thinks. Why do you think I do?

What I DO know is that if you raise the minimum wage to median wage levels, you either end up with 50% of the workforce on the minimum wage or you unleash 20, 30 or 40% inflation.

Basic economics. McDonald has chosen an utterly stupid hill on which to die. Unless his actual aim isn't about this policy of course.

But the Left won't engage in this argument. It will all be "principled man of the Left forced out by Red Tory."

If you want to know what MY policy on low wages is, I'd make a significant increase to the minimum wage, but not one that would immediately erode the gain by forcing massive rises across the workforce and firing up double digit inflation. 6-8% is a start. And where that wasn't enough, I'd raise working benefits, initially by borrowing, then as the economy started to grow, by increased taxes on companies and the highly paid.

What I wouldn't do is promote an idiotic policy in order to stoke up a party argument.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The median wage will rise in tandem with the increase in the minimum wage.

Sorry if you took offence at light hearted jibes.

Now stop the bullshit and answer the question asked;
"So, could you answer my question what does the Labour right think is a fair minimum wage for 2024?"

And thus how much inflation do you think that would cause? Plus the inevitable interest rate hike and shortage in other jobs.

See it's a tough thing raising the wages of those in the lower bands too much, otherwise you lose the incentive for people to do other jobs.

The daftest thing is this overshadows now some potentially interesting policy ideas mooted by the shadow chancellor today.

[SydneyRover]

I'm an angry old man, so angry I'm damn well going to do ................... nothing

You don't have to do anything, Syd old boy; just relax on Bondi Beach.

It'll help ease the pain of Starmer's dicking at the next GE. That is, if he's not removed before then.

tell me what you do Steve except rant and rave on a third tier football forum?