War?

[Dutch Uncle]

There are of course political prices to pay, bi-lateral and multi-lateral relationships (e.g. impacting on trade deals) to manage, and the image of the UK as a good and trustworthy ally to preserve. Not much to lose on that last score then.

[Sprotyrover]

There are of course political prices to pay, bi-lateral and multi-lateral relationships (e.g. impacting on trade deals) to manage, and the image of the UK as a good and trustworthy ally to preserve. Not much to lose on that last score then.

Does this mean a change in attitude towards trading with the UK?

[wilts rover]

There are of course political prices to pay, bi-lateral and multi-lateral relationships (e.g. impacting on trade deals) to manage, and the image of the UK as a good and trustworthy ally to preserve. Not much to lose on that last score then.

Does this mean a change in attitude towards trading with the UK?

We get a certain percentage of our electricity from France and gas from Norway.

Under the conditions of the EU Internal Energy Market (of which Norway is a member), if there is a shortfall of supply to countries in the EU, say if Russia invaded the Ukraine and cut supplies to the east, companiess in the EU are obliged to supply the EU before any external suppliers.

[Bentley Bullet]

Maybe it's time you emigrated and made room for another immigrant, Wilts.

[sha66y]

It’s by time we used up some of these cobwebbed warheads that are cluttering up unused silos…….

[Dutch Uncle]

There are of course political prices to pay, bi-lateral and multi-lateral relationships (e.g. impacting on trade deals) to manage, and the image of the UK as a good and trustworthy ally to preserve. Not much to lose on that last score then.

Does this mean a change in attitude towards trading with the UK?

The point I am making is that if the UK were to be the only country to veto a proposed NATO action then a number of countries might feel negatively towards the UK and this might have an effect on future relationships, including maybe trade deals.

[mugnapper]

On this weekend of all weekends, I find it odd that some are happy to go to war. The next war will not be fought on battlefields far away, it will be raining from the heavens. (In which case I'm a goner, as I live half a mile from the Rolls Royce Aerospace engine factories!). I doubt the Anderson shelter in my back garden from the last war will offer much defence to hypersonic missiles!

[Dutch Uncle]

Let me absolutely clear - I am not in favour of any war, and NATO was set up and remains a peaceful organisation. I am hoping for dialogue and diplomatic pressure. NATO usually requires and certainly prefers a UN Security Council mandate to follow in any major action.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Precisely DU.

The situation  guaranteed to lead to a major war is a) not setting clear and unambiguous limits on what behaviour by the other side is acceptable or b) giving the impression that you'll actually not do anything if those limits see breached.

This is a very dangerous time for the West. We've shown what looks like a weakness of resolve in Afghanistan. Putin, Xi and others will likely be prodding to see how deep that weakness goes. That's what the sabre rattling over Ukraine feels like. And if he's not faced down there, the obvious next in line are NATO members.

[wilts rover]

Maybe it's time you emigrated and made room for another immigrant, Wilts.

As useful contribution to a thread about a highly sensitive and extremly danergous political situtation that the UK seems bound to get drawn into. But on par with most of your rubbish.

[Bentley Bullet]

At least I'm on par and not over it, Wilts. Perhaps you should try going down the middle like me, instead of veering off to the left all the time.

[German Rover]

The EU instigated this Ukraine problem. We should not get involved.

As a NATO member we have no choice, we have to uphold our treaty obligations

Ukraine aren't in NATO, so NATO would be very unlikely to do anything. Nothing would happen until it spills over into neighbouring NATO members, especially the ones with Western Battle Groups in them such as the Baltic 3 and Poland. The Suwalki Gap between Belarus and Kaliningrad is a potential flashpoint as closing this gap would cut off three Western Battle Groups in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and would also no doubt set the Americans going with their battle group in Eastern Poland.

Hopefully saner minds will prevail because noone wins WW3. We all just die.

[Sprotyrover]

Our not so friendly Pals in Europe are hardly up for aWar. Recently Germany sent a Mechanised infantry Battalion to Norway on a Joint NATO excercise that single unit of approx 500 Troops had to borrow 1377 items of equipment from 70 other units! The Armoured troop Carriers didn't have any guns in their turrets so the Troops got some broom handles and stuck them where the guns should be. That is the paralous state our allies are in after 2 decades of underfunding their Armed forces spending 1.2% od GDP rather than 2!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, if you want to rise above the rank xenophobia of some posters and think like a grown up, this is a sobering read.

https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2021/11/belarus-laying-tinder-war-how-will-nato-respond/186796/

[Sprotyrover]

This sittuation can be easily diffused, open The Polish border and let The Refugees in, we do it every day in The Channel.

[Sprotyrover]

Sprotyrover reckons that if Putin intends invading the Eastern Ukraine he will do so on the 23 rd December. This is the optimum time to attack as the Western powers will be celebrating Christmas and the entire NATO alliance will be stood down mainly on leave, The Russians celebrate Xmas on 7th January so they can keep their forces at the border and even surge at short notice without it looking in the least way suspicious.

[normal rules]

Don’t you think it’s odd we never hear of refugees blowing themselves up when then are transiting through Europe ?
They wait till they get to their “promised land” before doing so.
Just think about that for a minute.
It’s been said before. We have no idea who we are letting in to this country. No filter. No checks . We welcome people because we are civilised and compassionate.
I get that.
I was part of a humanitarian UN deployment to Bosnia in 95. I was part of a humanitarian deployment also to Northern Iraq in 91. When saddam Hussain was bombing the shit out of the Kurds. I do not consider myself as some right wing kitson.
How many refugees crossing the channel have honest intentions?
How many are carriers of covid ?
What are we to do about this ?
I still think if we can send troops to Poland to protect their border, then the obvious answer is for uk troops to be deployed to the french coast. It is that simple.
If we are paying the french govt 54 million to do feck all , then Surely this Money can be used to self police ?

[SydneyRover]

Don’t you think it’s odd we never hear of refugees blowing themselves up when then are transiting through Europe ?
They wait till they get to their “promised land” before doing so.
Just think about that for a minute.
It’s been said before. We have no idea who we are letting in to this country. No filter. No checks . We welcome people because we are civilised and compassionate.
I get that.
I was part of a humanitarian UN deployment to Bosnia in 95. I was part of a humanitarian deployment also to Northern Iraq in 91. When saddam Hussain was bombing the shit out of the Kurds. I do not consider myself as some right wing kitson.
How many refugees crossing the channel have honest intentions?
How many are carriers of covid ?
What are we to do about this ?
I still think if we can send troops to Poland to protect their border, then the obvious answer is for uk troops to be deployed to the french coast. It is that simple.
If we are paying the french govt 54 million to do feck all , then Surely this Money can be used to self police ?

So does almost every other country in the world.

[normal rules]

So we just carry on?

[SydneyRover]

So we just carry on?

Your first comment around refugees is ill informed as radicalisation often occurs in the country where a terrorist person is born.

Added: people are not born to be terrorists they are indoctrinated as we all know.

[BillyStubbsTears]

We are sending troops to Poland to deter Russia.

Russia is encouraging Belarus to use migrants to destabilise the border. It's not remotely like the Channel situation.

[Sprotyrover]

We are sending troops to Poland to deter Russia.

Russia is encouraging Belarus to use migrants to destabilise the border. It's not remotely like the Channel situation.

How does us Sending troops to Poland stop refugees from crossing
The border from Belarus? Are we going to shoot them if they come over?have we sent Engineers to build them a camp?
Are we going to play Julius Caesar and let them freeze to death in no mans land?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Do I honestly have to spell that out Sproty?

[wilts rover]

Putin wishes to destabilise the EU so as to make Russia stronger. Several posters seemed determined to help him.

[Sprotyrover]

Putin wishes to destabilise the EU so as to make Russia stronger. Several posters seemed determined to help him.

Is Erdogan of Turkey trying to destabilise the West, he is doing the same thing,is Macron trying to destabilise NATO he is doing the same thing,do I need to give you more examples?

[wilts rover]

Putin wishes to destabilise the EU so as to make Russia stronger. Several posters seemed determined to help him.

Is Erdogan of Turkey trying to destabilise the West, he is doing the same thing,is Macron trying to destabilise NATO he is doing the same thing,do I need to give you more examples?

Thus does one poster prove my point.

[Sprotyrover]

Putin wishes to destabilise the EU so as to make Russia stronger. Several posters seemed determined to help him.

Is Erdogan of Turkey trying to destabilise the West, he is doing the same thing,is Macron trying to destabilise NATO he is doing the same thing,do I need to give you more examples?

Thus does one poster prove my point.

What on earth are you talking about, explain?

[Sprotyrover]

Has Wilts Rover scuttled off under a rock?

[Sprotyrover]

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has tonight warned Russia not to consider invading Ukraine, Russia has told NATO to move its forces away from the Russian Border!

[Glyn_Wigley]

This sittuation can be easily diffused, open The Polish border and let The Refugees in, we do it every day in The Channel.

I thought taking back control of our border was supposed to mean something else.