Arthur

[selby]

  A truly awful situation that is beyond my comprehension, I just cannot understand these people and the hurt they cause, but listening to the radio and a social worker head who came out with a statistic that is so frightening I cannot comprehend it.
  He said that since the first lock down there are 100,000 children that they have absolutely no idea of their where about's that were known to the authorities before the pandemic.
  Some I suppose can be explained by people returning to such as Poland and other home countries and the normal movement of the population, but 100,000 and things like this happening in the world is unbelievable and sends a shiver down my back.
 

[normal rules]

Tip of the iceberg .

[Colin C No.3]

Social Services visited the family home 2 months before Arthur’s death.

I’d be interested to see the report on their findings after that visit.

[selby]

  Normal Rules, so you are saying that in this modern age 100,000 youngsters can completely disappear as far as the authorities are concerned, the mind boggles, if so the quicker ID cards are introduced the better, both for the youngsters concerned well being and to stop the prospect of massive fraud.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

There are huge numbers of vulnerable children being tortured and abused in their homes as we speak. Made worse by every lockdown and totally unnecessary periods of school isolation due to the Covid obsession.

The untold levels of misery, fear and pain that thousands of kids must be enduring on a daily basis is beyond comprehension.

Once again, those words again - THE SYSTEM

The system is failing children and many of these children have been flagged but nobody it seems within 'the system' is able to take responsibility and take some direct action in order to protect these kids from vile, evil monsters who are supposed to be caring for them.

The human capacity to commit unholy acts of evil and depravity without remorse never ceases to surprise.

Leaves me in tears reading about cases like this. Unfathomable cruelty.

[normal rules]

  Normal Rules, so you are saying that in this modern age 100,000 youngsters can completely disappear as far as the authorities are concerned, the mind boggles, if so the quicker ID cards are introduced the better, both for the youngsters concerned well being and to stop the prospect of massive fraud.

ID card would solve little.they would be wide open to abuse, counterfeiting , falsifying etc. You can buy a fake driving lic on eBay for a tenner.
Then There will be the usual human rights furore around their use.
Waste of time and money.

[ravenrover]

I only hope that they and their heinous crime are made known inside

[Glyn_Wigley]

If 100,000 can fall thought the cracks it makes you wonder how understaffed and overworked the system is.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Yep. Like the Rotherham child sex abuse scandal where about a million social workers who knew what was going on passed the buck because they didn't want to take the responsibility of dealing with the situation you mean?

I agree that the system is under pressure but in many cases it is simply because people aren't robust and honest enough to do their jobs properly IMO.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Yep. Like the Rotherham child sex abuse scandal where about a million social workers who knew what was going on passed the buck because they didn't want to take the responsibility of dealing with the situation you mean?

I agree that the system is under pressure but in many cases it is simply because people aren't robust and honest enough to do their jobs properly IMO.

Let's not f**king bother then and leave them to their fate.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Yep. Like the Rotherham child sex abuse scandal where about a million social workers who knew what was going on passed the buck because they didn't want to take the responsibility of dealing with the situation you mean?

I agree that the system is under pressure but in many cases it is simply because people aren't robust and honest enough to do their jobs properly IMO.

Let's not f**king bother then and leave them to their fate.

Not sure what you mean? The issues are caused by the system being under significant pressure, as you rightly say and also a significant number of people unsuited to the roles that occupy senior positions of responsibility within social services etc.

Not sure how that correlates to not bothering and leaving them to their fate.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Oh and i was also abused as a kid and now have some mental health problems because of it. I'm probably experiencing a 'splitting' episode now but don't worry mate. You keep having a pop if it makes you feel better. 

[belton rover]

Oh and i was also abused as a kid and now have some mental health problems because of it. I'm probably experiencing a 'splitting' episode now but don't worry mate. You keep having a pop if it makes you feel better. 

The problem you have now, Colin, is that Glyn has categorised you as opposition. So now, everything you say will be met with disdain from him. He does that.

But back on topic, if nothing drastically changes within the system, I fear you are right. We will wait until it happens again and then be up in arms about it again. And so on…

[normal rules]

The job of social worker is a thankless one .
A bit like being a cop.

When social workers visit homes, the vast majority of occasions it is with the knowledge of those they are visiting.
With prior knowledge, abusers get a chance to cover their tracks. Make things look good. Hide evidence of abuse, neglect. Roll out the red carpet.
Make their kids think that social workers are bad people, the enemy. The list goes on.
Spotting signs of abuse and neglect is not an easy thing.
Taking a child from their parents is a very very serious step which has serious implications for the child, the family and the wider community.
Like domestic abuse, sometimes the only times it comes to light, is sadly when  It is too late.

[Nudga]

Social Services visited the family home 2 months before Arthur’s death.

I’d be interested to see the report on their findings after that visit.

I'm speaking as someone that was physically abused as a young lad by my step dad.
He had the ability to hide the beatings from my mum for about two years so social services may not have seen anything untoward.
This guy had the ability to knock seven shades of shit out of me, humiliate me and tell me that he would kill me and make me piss myself and then the day after be the best dad anyone could wish for.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Social Services visited the family home 2 months before Arthur’s death.

I’d be interested to see the report on their findings after that visit.

I'm speaking as someone that was physically abused as a young lad by my step dad.
He had the ability to hide the beatings from my mum for about two years so social services may not have seen anything untoward.
This guy had the ability to knock seven shades of shit out of me, humiliate me and tell me that he would kill me and make me piss myself and then the day after be the best dad anyone could wish for.

Sorry to hear that Nudga. Me similar. Beatings from my old man. Fists, belts, tools, anything to hand. Chased up the stairs regularly, explosions of rage, and had me cowering in the corner of my room whilst blows rained down. Not knowing when it would happen next. No emotional support or nurturing there.

I just thought that this was how parents parented in the 80's. Only later on i came to accept it was child abuse.

Tea on the table type my dad. So proud of what i have actually achieved in my life despite being set up to fail.

Anyway, i just wish people would think that when strong views are aired on this board that maybe the person with the strong view is speaking from painful personal experience.

Hope you doing ok Nudga.

I used to hang around with a Donny lad called Allen Langham who went to Ridgy school with me in the 90's etc and he went through similar problems with his family. He ended up inside and eventually rebuilt his life as a born again Christian and wrote a book about his experiences:

Taming of a Villain: A Message of Hope by Allen Langham

What an inspiration old Langham was for me, although i'm still learning. Not seen him for about 20 odd years. Never thought others were going through similar experiences, let alone people who i knew.

[Nudga]

Yeah I'm good thanks. I let go of the baggage years ago.
My only problem now is that I never know when to walk away from things kicking off.

I don't want to go into the details and I'm not looking for sympathy, I just wanted to highlight that these evil bas**rds are clever, very clever and so it's not always the fault of the authorities or even close family for that matter.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Indeed.

I guess i always will look to question authority type structures and use sweeping generalised criticism and blame due to a lack of trust that i have developed with authority figures and the broken hypocritical systems they represent.

So schools, police, government, nhs, anyone really who says we need to do things and do them their way and we don't have a choice or who i perceive as failing others i resent and will fight them like my life depended on it.

Not healthy but until i find another way around this, it is my default mindset at the moment.

It won't be forever.
 

[wilts rover]

What is there to say about this?

Who should look after and keep children safe, parents or the whole of society? How often do you want 'the authorities' checking on your children?

When the gutter press do these derogatary articles on 'dogooders' who does that hurt and who does it harm? Who would want less good done in the world - other than people who wish to do harm?

[scawsby steve]

Social Services visited the family home 2 months before Arthur’s death.

I’d be interested to see the report on their findings after that visit.

I'm speaking as someone that was physically abused as a young lad by my step dad.
He had the ability to hide the beatings from my mum for about two years so social services may not have seen anything untoward.
This guy had the ability to knock seven shades of shit out of me, humiliate me and tell me that he would kill me and make me piss myself and then the day after be the best dad anyone could wish for.

Sorry to hear that Nudga. Me similar. Beatings from my old man. Fists, belts, tools, anything to hand. Chased up the stairs regularly, explosions of rage, and had me cowering in the corner of my room whilst blows rained down. Not knowing when it would happen next. No emotional support or nurturing there.

I just thought that this was how parents parented in the 80's. Only later on i came to accept it was child abuse.

Tea on the table type my dad. So proud of what i have actually achieved in my life despite being set up to fail.

Anyway, i just wish people would think that when strong views are aired on this board that maybe the person with the strong view is speaking from painful personal experience.

Hope you doing ok Nudga.

I used to hang around with a Donny lad called Allen Langham who went to Ridgy school with me in the 90's etc and he went through similar problems with his family. He ended up inside and eventually rebuilt his life as a born again Christian and wrote a book about his experiences:

Taming of a Villain: A Message of Hope by Allen Langham

What an inspiration old Langham was for me, although i'm still learning. Not seen him for about 20 odd years. Never thought others were going through similar experiences, let alone people who i knew.

I not only got it from my old man, but from teachers as well. Many parents and teachers were f*cking sadistic, cruel b*st*rds in the 1950s, and caused mental issues amongst many of us.

I know Allen very well. He was a good mate of my daughter's boyfriend, Billy Dent, who tragically died young.

Tough lad, is Allen.

[selby]

  Steve, I never had anything remotely like that sort of thing going on in my young life, but many of parental age in the 50's had less than ten years before had been trained to be killers in a war where life meant nothing.
  In later life you have conversations with parents, I could not have had a better more caring upbringing, and certainly no brutality, what I was taught as a youngster was respect, unarmed combat, and how to shoot a rifle and look after myself, but only if threatened.
  When he was well into old age he of course opened up about his army service in Burma which he never spoke about when younger. I once asked him if he had any regrets he replied yes I saw some of my best mates killed at the side of me and my first thoughts when things died down were have they any rice, are their boots better than mine and fit me, have they any Ammo, another time to the same question yes they turned me into a complete killer, it was them or me I could have stepped over your body and not given it a thought. And when the trial for the Me Lai massacre in Vietnam and Colonel Calley was convicted  was televised  he said they must be mad, we did that regular you have to they give the enemy your positions.
  The thing I am getting at Steve is lots , millions of men were mentally scarred, were trained killers really and brutality and death was part of their lives for that and the earlier generations. Not an excuse, but could well have been a reason.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

I think the difference is though Selby that with a lot of lads like myself, Nudga, Arthur etc, the brutality was at the hands of family members that you trusted and looked to for care and comfort. Not only having to deal with the abuse but also try and process just what was happening and how could it happen. Was it something we had done and then we think it is us that are not worthy as kids. Creates mental problems later in life.

Poor Arthur didn't survive and some don't but the ones that do are often given a life sentence in terms of struggles with mental health due to the actions of others.

Sad to read your accounts though Selby.

[selby]

  I find it difficult to comprehend Colin, I just cannot even watch documentaries or films that touch on the subject. I certainly could not just stand by and accept it happening in front of me.
  But the point I started this thread for is how can the authorities lose track of a massive number of children that potentially could be being treat just like Arthur. It is a complete break down of the system of child care,and cannot be defended by anyone within the system or government local and nationally.
   Because the case of Arthur is so sadistic and against any reasonable human nature, it seems to me it is over shadowing the fact that the system as a whole, whether the staff, and the governance of the system is up to the job.
  Clearly we have been here before with investigations and reports that have not improved things. Heads need to roll, systems put in place, and authority brought to the fore before things will improve, and starting with traceability needs to be improved immediately.

[normal rules]

My wife works in the world of children’s services.
You would not believe the amount of families that go out of their way to evade/ avoid children’s services. In many cases moving county.

[normal rules]

Take Lincolnshire for example and the huge caravan sites along the east coast. There are many families who have moved from counties like derbys, leics, South Yorkshire, west mids. They drop off most radars when they flit their home county. Many of them through choice.

[wilts rover]

  I find it difficult to comprehend Colin, I just cannot even watch documentaries or films that touch on the subject. I certainly could not just stand by and accept it happening in front of me.
  But the point I started this thread for is how can the authorities lose track of a massive number of children that potentially could be being treat just like Arthur. It is a complete break down of the system of child care,and cannot be defended by anyone within the system or government local and nationally.
   Because the case of Arthur is so sadistic and against any reasonable human nature, it seems to me it is over shadowing the fact that the system as a whole, whether the staff, and the governance of the system is up to the job.
  Clearly we have been here before with investigations and reports that have not improved things. Heads need to roll, systems put in place, and authority brought to the fore before things will improve, and starting with traceability needs to be improved immediately.

But how Selby? Tag everybody?

It needs more people to do it and more money to pay them. Are people happy for their taxes to go up to pay for this?

We had 8 pupils drop off the school register last year. We know where they aren't - but how can we know where they are?

If you have  acountry that is happy not to feed socially deprived kids in school holidays during a pandemic, then I can't see them suddenly forking out £millions every year looking after all of them

[normal rules]

For every person you have arguing for safety mechanisms and checks to be in place for children and families, you will have another person arguing that it’s against their human rights to have their privacy intruded.

[scawsby steve]

  Steve, I never had anything remotely like that sort of thing going on in my young life, but many of parental age in the 50's had less than ten years before had been trained to be killers in a war where life meant nothing.
  In later life you have conversations with parents, I could not have had a better more caring upbringing, and certainly no brutality, what I was taught as a youngster was respect, unarmed combat, and how to shoot a rifle and look after myself, but only if threatened.
  When he was well into old age he of course opened up about his army service in Burma which he never spoke about when younger. I once asked him if he had any regrets he replied yes I saw some of my best mates killed at the side of me and my first thoughts when things died down were have they any rice, are their boots better than mine and fit me, have they any Ammo, another time to the same question yes they turned me into a complete killer, it was them or me I could have stepped over your body and not given it a thought. And when the trial for the Me Lai massacre in Vietnam and Colonel Calley was convicted  was televised  he said they must be mad, we did that regular you have to they give the enemy your positions.
  The thing I am getting at Steve is lots , millions of men were mentally scarred, were trained killers really and brutality and death was part of their lives for that and the earlier generations. Not an excuse, but could well have been a reason.

Brian, at Percy Jackson's you must surely have had some slaps or beatings from the likes of Charlie Elliott, Ron Cockroft, or Donald Rudd, and many more.

If not, you were extremely lucky.

[selby]

  Elliott yes  and probably deserved it, Cook the French teacher  probably because I was useless at French, Cockroft no mate played cricket and football for the school teams, no problems, although the first PE lesson he did ask where me and Bill Whaley were from and when we said Askern he said not another lot from there due to Rudkin and Canning playing for Doncaster Boys at Cricket instead of the school team.
   Nobody from PJGS ever played for Doncaster Boys at football or cricket again, Rudd stayed clear of, not my cup of tea at all and lucky enough to not be in any of his classes.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Another case today in the media of a 16 month old being murdered despite 5 referrals being made to social services in West Yorkshire. RIP Star Hobson.