Labour Support Required

[tyke1962]

Looks like the government are going to need the support of Labour to get through parliament next week the Plan B regulations .

Over 30 Tories are set to vote against the government or abstain .

Interesting to see what Starmer does here .

Does he support the measures and the party votes with the government ?

Or

Does he whip his MP's to abstain leaving Johnson to clean the mess up he's created and add another level of pressure on him ? .

Interesting ..........

[normal rules]

Indeed it will be interesting , especially given he has lambasted the govt time and again for their apparent lateness in implementing measures.
A good opportunity for Labour to show their true colours.
I’m sure they won’t disappoint.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

They'll back it and rightly so.  They can't call for it then fail to vote for it, it lumps them in the same category as Boris and takes the story away from the PM.

[Filo]

Looks like the government are going to need the support of Labour to get through parliament next week the Plan B regulations .

Over 30 Tories are set to vote against the government or abstain .

Interesting to see what Starmer does here .

Does he support the measures and the party votes with the government ?

Or

Does he whip his MP's to abstain leaving Johnson to clean the mess up he's created and add another level of pressure on him ? .

Interesting ..........

Either way tyke, I get the feeling that you will lambast them anyway, whichway do you think they should vote?

[normal rules]

Imagine a House of Commons that does not support these measures, only then to witness and preside over an exponential rise in cases with all that may bring.
The govt seem to be doing a pretty good job of self harming at the moment, but this would be another level. Political suicide.
Surely there can only be one outcome on tues.?
The vote for this should have nothing to do with Xmas parties, as emotive as that may be.
My concern is the opposition use it to kick the govt while they are down. Which could be very costly for all.

[Filo]

Imagine a House of Commons that does not support these measures, only then to witness and preside over an exponential rise in cases with all that may bring.
The govt seem to be doing a pretty good job of self harming at the moment, but this would be another level. Political suicide.
Surely there can only be one outcome on tues.?
The vote for this should have nothing to do with Xmas parties, as emotive as that may be.
My concern is the opposition use it to kick the govt while they are down. Which could be very costly for all.

They’ll support it, they’ve supported every other measure and rightly so. But people like tyke will use that as a stick to bash Labour, thats why I ask him which way does he think they should vote? Labour could ofcourse use the tory trick of saying they will abstain, but if they did watch the Tory lovers come out and condemn that

[Axholme Lion]

They should abstain. There is no need whatsoever for these restrictions. Where is the evidence that Omicron is a big problem? Even in South Africa with their poor vaccination figures it's no big deal.

[normal rules]

Those contracting omicron in SA are predominantly younger.

[BillyStubbsTears]

They should abstain. There is no need whatsoever for these restrictions. Where is the evidence that Omicron is a big problem? Even in South Africa with their poor vaccination figures it's no big deal.

Come back in 2 months and revisit this comment.

[selby]

  Politics and self gratification, or what is best for the country and its parties supporters has always been a hard call for all the political parties, but Labour have to be careful here they will be going against and effecting their core voters the most if they back the government, Hmm what to do?
  The Reform party should make a big statement stating their opposition to the government stance and they could stand to gain the most from the situation.

[normal rules]

The shadow health Secretary Wes streeting, has said they will be voting for the measures, “putting public health first” according to the bbc website just now.

[Filo]

The shadow health Secretary Wes streeting, has said they will be voting for the measures, “putting public health first” according to the bbc website just now.

And rightly so, it will give a bit of a free pass to the closet Tories to bash Labour with, but doing the right thing by the public trumps party politics everytime

[normal rules]

I will want to see a list of the names of the tories who abstain or vote against.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course Labour will back this, because in the grown up world, you don't play politics with an enemy that kills 1000 of our fellow citizens a week. The fact that the question is even being asked is repellent.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Of course Labour will back this, because in the grown up world, you don't play politics with an enemy that kills 1000 of our fellow citizens a week. The fact that the question is even being asked is repellent.

I get that some labour supporters passionately want to beat the other side.  But they won't win an election with that approach.  That's why kier Starmer has a chance. He may infuriate the left a little but he's taking an approach that attracts those in the middle a bit more.

The polling giving labour a lead was interesting. That's caused not by an increase in labour votes but Tory voters indicating they're undecided.  Labour will know this, they don't want to be bulked in with the mistakes Boris is making by making their own.

[normal rules]

If the shoe was on the other foot, does anyone think the Labour occupants of no ten would not have transgressed in some way shape or form last Xmas?

[i_ateallthepies]

If the shoe was on the other foot, does anyone think the Labour occupants of no ten would not have transgressed in some way shape or form last Xmas?

I guess not NR, they didn't do it last year in opposition so why would they do it as a government?

[BillyStubbsTears]

If the shoe was on the other foot, does anyone think the Labour occupants of no ten would not have transgressed in some way shape or form last Xmas?

What makes you think that? Millions of us did without Xmas parties last year. Why do you think Labour under Starmer would have thought themselves above those requirements? Is there any evidence that Starmer has similar standards to Johnson? Does he lie regularly? Has he ever been investigated for corruption? Had he ever been sacked...twice...for dishonesty? Has he ever refused to acknowledge how many kids he has fathered? Had he ever left his wife to deal with cancer, so he could shack up with his latest mistress?

I genuinely don't understand where this "they're all as bad as each other" attitude comes from.

[SydneyRover]

Some just wish labour was as bad as the tories, it saves having to explain why they support a dishonest incompetent rabble.

[Axholme Lion]

They should abstain. There is no need whatsoever for these restrictions. Where is the evidence that Omicron is a big problem? Even in South Africa with their poor vaccination figures it's no big deal.

Come back in 2 months and revisit this comment.

Fine by me.

No disrespect intended here, but are you really that scared about this whole situation? We can't just sit at home forever, who's going to pay for it all? Life goes on and there are risks in everything we do. We were told get your jabs to get your freedoms back. Well i've done that, wear a mask done that. How long are we expected to hide with our collective heads under the duvet? As i say i'm not disrespecting you but i feel you're going a bit over the top over covid.

[normal rules]

How many Labour MPs or former MPs have been jailed or received suspended sentences  in the last ten years?

Labour led Electoral fraud in East and West Ham earlier this year?
I could write a list.
A big list.

Both parties have rotten eggs. The tories ones just happen to be at the top at the moment.

[SydneyRover]

How many Labour MPs or former MPs have been jailed or received suspended sentences  in the last ten years?

Labour led Electoral fraud in East and West Ham earlier this year?
I could write a list.
A big list.

Both parties have rotten eggs. The tories ones just happen to be at the top at the moment.

It's your story NR gives us your list

[BillyStubbsTears]

How many Labour MPs or former MPs have been jailed or received suspended sentences  in the last ten years?

Labour led Electoral fraud in East and West Ham earlier this year?
I could write a list.
A big list.

Both parties have rotten eggs. The tories ones just happen to be at the top at the moment.

That's not the point though is it? It's not about graft and illegality down the ranks. As you say, there will always be some like that in nay group. The point here is that for the first time in modern history, we have a pathological liar, cheat and fraud at the very top of the pole. And it is a worrying sign of how normalised his behaviour has become that you seem to assume that the leadership of the other side would be just as bad.

I've been saying this for years. If you lazily say "they are all the same" you've lost the leverage to hold to task the truly immoral and corrupt. They know they can get away with it because they won't be judged if people just assume that all politicians are amoral and corrupt. That's why you end up with true criminals like Berlusconi and Trump in power, or our own Poundland version.

[normal rules]

What’s the point?
I’m happy I have a balanced view of left and right wing politics in this country.
I also recognise, that no matter what, some will always be biased to one or the other.
The Tory party are doing a very good job of shooting the selves in the foot currently.
Something the Labour Party has been guilty of previously and if anyone is in denial about this, then this really is a pointless chat.
Kier starmer himself has been accused by his very own of being dishonest. He has branded the Labour Party as being that “of business”. Supporting capitalist ideals. Ones which strike at the very heart of the working man that the Labour movement was built on.
If I have to write lists, then you have clearly been absent from keeping abreast of current affairs for the adult years of your life.
But I will give you these snippets.
Kier starmers 10 pledges he made to Labour members only last year. Remember those? Here are two of them.
Income tax rise promised. Yet when sunak announced the same starmer called for his mps to abstain on the matter.
Common ownership. When asked on Andrew Marr show about if he would nationalise the big six energy companies. He replied no.

Most dishonourably of all,  starmer inflicted the greatest injustice on his predecessor, when he chose to suspend him for remarks which some allege were agreed in advance. Starmer has been proven time and again to say different things to differing audiences at different moments. Un lucky for him, he did it all on tv and radio.
He has no more credibility that Johnson IMO.

The main diff between the two, is Johnson is a blundering idiot, whereas starmer has a little bit of nous about him.

[phil old leake]

Normal I’m not convinced KS has got a bit of nous

He’s very good at saying that everything is not good enough without offering alternatives

I personally think a major problem with the Labour Party that is an advantage to the tories is KS isn’t up to the job and they have no obvious replacement

[Axholme Lion]

Normal I’m not convinced KS has got a bit of nous

He’s very good at saying that everything is not good enough without offering alternatives

I personally think a major problem with the Labour Party that is an advantage to the tories is KS isn’t up to the job and they have no obvious replacement

What's the point of an opposition if they aren't coming up with any different ideas to the government?

[Bentley Bullet]

What do you expect? Starmer's a prosecutor. He only knows how to tell people they are wrong, not how to be right!

[redwine]

If the shoe was on the other foot, does anyone think the Labour occupants of no ten would not have transgressed in some way shape or form last Xmas?

Archetypal whataboutery!!

[albie]

Labour should back a Plan B if it is thought through, reflects accurately the scientific advice, and will reduce significantly the impact of the Omicron variant.

Bozo has cobbled together a Plan B hybrid which is irrational, and does not reflect the science.

Nowhere do Sage say;
"Work from home, but go to parties",
"Wear a mask in Tesco, but not in the pub",
"Do the utmost to prevent spreading by not going to work, but do not get paid for income lost".

It is complete shit, just to distract from the other shit.

There is no reason for Labour to support these half measures. Starmer should oppose these measures as being nowhere near what the science advises.

If Labour support this nonsense, it is to help keep Coco clowning for a bit longer.......pathetic!

[Filo]

Labour should back a Plan B if it is thought through, reflects accurately the scientific advice, and will reduce significantly the impact of the Omicron variant.

Bozo has cobbled together a Plan B hybrid which is irrational, and does not reflect the science.

Nowhere do Sage say;
"Work from home, but go to parties",
"Wear a mask in Tesco, but not in the pub",
"Do the utmost to prevent spreading by not going to work, but do not get paid for income lost".

It is complete shit, just to distract from the other shit.

There is no reason for Labour to support these half measures. Starmer should oppose these measures as being nowhere near what the science advises.

If Labour support this nonsense, it is to help keep Coco clowning for a bit longer.......pathetic!

Could Labour put an amendment in to try and get some sense into any restrictions