Labour Support Required

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Labour should back a Plan B if it is thought through, reflects accurately the scientific advice, and will reduce significantly the impact of the Omicron variant.

Bozo has cobbled together a Plan B hybrid which is irrational, and does not reflect the science.

Nowhere do Sage say;
"Work from home, but go to parties",
"Wear a mask in Tesco, but not in the pub",
"Do the utmost to prevent spreading by not going to work, but do not get paid for income lost".

It is complete shit, just to distract from the other shit.

There is no reason for Labour to support these half measures. Starmer should oppose these measures as being nowhere near what the science advises.

If Labour support this nonsense, it is to help keep Coco clowning for a bit longer.......pathetic!

Could Labour put an amendment in to try and get some sense into any restrictions

I don't believe the type of law that it is can be amended in a vote.  They can of course make it clear what their regulations would be in more detail (unlikely as it wouldn't be popular).

[wilts rover]

You think this is controversial wait until Plan C comes out.

Being discussed by COBRA now with intention to announce it 29th December according to rumours.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Surely not. Johnson denied any knowledge of Plan C today.

[ravenrover]

We will be in lockdown come the New Year, if not before

[tyke1962]

Looks like the government are going to need the support of Labour to get through parliament next week the Plan B regulations .

Over 30 Tories are set to vote against the government or abstain .

Interesting to see what Starmer does here .

Does he support the measures and the party votes with the government ?

Or

Does he whip his MP's to abstain leaving Johnson to clean the mess up he's created and add another level of pressure on him ? .

Interesting ..........

Either way tyke, I get the feeling that you will lambast them anyway, whichway do you think they should vote?

My own view given I'm not in favour of any more restrictions what so ever is that he should whip his MP's to abstain .

[roversdude]

Looks like the government are going to need the support of Labour to get through parliament next week the Plan B regulations .

Over 30 Tories are set to vote against the government or abstain .

Interesting to see what Starmer does here .

Does he support the measures and the party votes with the government ?

Or

Does he whip his MP's to abstain leaving Johnson to clean the mess up he's created and add another level of pressure on him ? .

Interesting ..........

Either way tyke, I get the feeling that you will lambast them anyway, whichway do you think they should vote?

My own view given I'm not in favour of any more restrictions what so ever is that he should whip his MP's to abstain .

Yep I’d agree with that Tyke

[SydneyRover]

Labour should back a Plan B if it is thought through, reflects accurately the scientific advice, and will reduce significantly the impact of the Omicron variant.

Bozo has cobbled together a Plan B hybrid which is irrational, and does not reflect the science.

Nowhere do Sage say;
"Work from home, but go to parties",
"Wear a mask in Tesco, but not in the pub",
"Do the utmost to prevent spreading by not going to work, but do not get paid for income lost".

It is complete shit, just to distract from the other shit.

There is no reason for Labour to support these half measures. Starmer should oppose these measures as being nowhere near what the science advises.

If Labour support this nonsense, it is to help keep Coco clowning for a bit longer.......pathetic!

Looks like you are already making up scenarios to satisfy your distaste for someone you do not have a replacement for Albie.

[wilts rover]

Surely not. Johnson denied any knowledge of Plan C today.

Possibly why he had Gove lead the COBRA meeting then!

[tyke1962]

Looks like the government are going to need the support of Labour to get through parliament next week the Plan B regulations .

Over 30 Tories are set to vote against the government or abstain .

Interesting to see what Starmer does here .

Does he support the measures and the party votes with the government ?

Or

Does he whip his MP's to abstain leaving Johnson to clean the mess up he's created and add another level of pressure on him ? .

Interesting ..........

Either way tyke, I get the feeling that you will lambast them anyway, whichway do you think they should vote?

My own view given I'm not in favour of any more restrictions what so ever is that he should whip his MP's to abstain .

Yep I’d agree with that Tyke

Presumably it would be asking too much of Keith to come up with a Plan C .

[albie]

Syd,

"Making up scenarios".....you are going to have to explain, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Labour supporting Bozo and and silly plan is not in the public interest, is it?

If you reckon it is, please set it out.

[SydneyRover]

Syd,

"Making up scenarios".....you are going to have to explain, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Labour supporting Bozo and and silly plan is not in the public interest, is it?

If you reckon it is, please set it out.

Let me explain ALbie, a scenario is a 'something' that hasn't happened yet

[albie]

But Labour have said that they will support Boris, Syd.
Thangam Debonnaire has been on TV saying that is exactly their position.

Just very odd, and a complete misunderstanding of the political dynamics.

[SydneyRover]

But Labour have said that they will support Boris, Syd.
Thangam Debonnaire has been on TV saying that is exactly their position.

Just very odd, and a complete misunderstanding of the political dynamics.

It still hasn't happened yet, with the latest figures coming from cobra and the predictions, things may change Albie, although we could just hope for the worst and blame it all on labour.

[SydneyRover]

It's strange behaviour Albie, trying your level best to blame the opposition for the state the country is in.

[albie]

Syd,

Stop being silly.

Labour have confirmed that they will support Plan B.
Streeting was on R4 at lunchtime saying just that.

The question is about whether Labour have properly understood the implications of doing so.
When your opponent is about to make a major error, you stand aside and make sure that they "own it", so they can't say later that Labour would do the same.

It is not about "blaming the opposition for the state of the country", it is about making sure that Bozo takes the rap.

There are further implications for union funding on the back of this.

[wilts rover]

But Labour have said that they will support Boris, Syd.
Thangam Debonnaire has been on TV saying that is exactly their position.

Just very odd, and a complete misunderstanding of the political dynamics.

Just the opposite Albie. This vote will split the Tories and enrage the ones who vote against it. Even more when they learn Johnson is also about to cave in to the EU on the NI protocol. So he will forever have enemies on his own benches - never a good idea.

It also makes it interesting for a future leadership contest. Did they or did they not support this vote?

[SydneyRover]

Syd,

Stop being silly.

Labour have confirmed that they will support Plan B.
Streeting was on R4 at lunchtime saying just that.

The question is about whether Labour have properly understood the implications of doing so.
When your opponent is about to make a major error, you stand aside and make sure that they "own it", so they can't say later that Labour would do the same.

It is not about "blaming the opposition for the state of the country", it is about making sure that Bozo takes the rap.

There are further implications for union funding on the back of this.

And what will you be saying if they don't support it Albie, go Starmer?

[SydneyRover]

The ABC Oz gov't broadcaster does a survey (Vote Compass) before each election, you tick the boxes for what you want, it spits out result of what parties and candidates support.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-11/vote-compass-federal-election-2019/10731602

It's likely there is a similar one done in the UK, there is one in Canada too. It throws up some interesting results.

''Political parties and their voters don't always see eye to eye on immigration, Vote Compass finds''

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-24/vote-compass-election-immigration-asylum-seekers/11038070

[SydneyRover]

Politics is quite funny really, I keep reading about what people want from their government as far as health care, retirement care, job security, a fair go, a better society etc and then get admonishment for supporting a party most likely to provide it.

On the same hand you look at those that support a government that strongly shouts about smaller government, less taxes but can't stop itself from placing the burden on those that can least afford it, can someone explain how this will bring about a better society.

[albie]

But Labour have said that they will support Boris, Syd.
Thangam Debonnaire has been on TV saying that is exactly their position.

Just very odd, and a complete misunderstanding of the political dynamics.

Just the opposite Albie. This vote will split the Tories and enrage the ones who vote against it. Even more when they learn Johnson is also about to cave in to the EU on the NI protocol. So he will forever have enemies on his own benches - never a good idea.

It also makes it interesting for a future leadership contest. Did they or did they not support this vote?

Yes, Wilts, the vote will split the Tories.
It has already happened, and that is precisely the reason Labour should not get involved.

It is a tactical error to support Boris, leave him to stew in his own juices.

Plan B is ludicrous, and with Omicron doubling every 2 days it will be obsolete before the end of next week.

Much better to get on the front foot and support the public health messaging from the scientific community. Supporting a HoC vote for inadequate measures is extremely short sighted IMO.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And then leave Labour wide open to the accusation that they voted against measures to limit the spread of Omicron.

I sometimes wonder if you really want Labour to lose.

[albie]

BST,

No, absolutely not.
I did not say vote against, I said abstain.

Massive difference, because Labour need to back public health measures, not support pointless gestures like Plan B which will achieve nothing.

Make Johnson own his mistake...this is ground zero in political management.

Sorry if you don't get this, but I promise you Plan B will be dead in the water next week.
Let's see!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Apologies, you did say abstain. My mistake. And I  agree that Plan B will be dead soon. We will be in some form of lockdown by New Year.

But I think you are over analysing this. If Labour abstain and Plan B falls, then we have to go into hard lockdown it doesn't take a genius to see what the Tory attack line will be. No one will care that Labour abstained because Plan B wasn't strong enough.

[tyke1962]

The virus will do what it wants regardless of these measures .

If you think it's right that  you need to prove your covid credentials just to watch a football match in this country then I don't really know what to say anymore .

In my opinion these measures are not just about a virus , it's starting to go way beyond that .

Don't even get me started on mandatory vaccinations .

Extremely slippery slope and Labour will sign up to it .

[BillyStubbsTears]

21 months in and people are still talking absolute nonsense like this.

"The virus will do what it wants regardless of these measures ."

[tyke1962]

21 months in and people are still talking absolute nonsense like this.

"The virus will do what it wants regardless of these measures ."

If you can't see the dead cat that was thrown on the table to shift you away from the Downing Street party then I don't really know what to say .

I'm not a covid denier or an anti vaxer and I'm double jabbed and will have the booster next week .

As I've said on another thread on this subject enough is enough they are on camera literally laughing at you and still you comply .

Words fail me .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke

I'm listening to the scientists, not to the politicians.

The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine have been bang on the money in modelling the spread over 2021. A very good friend of mine is closely involved in that effort and he's one of the sharpest minds I know.

They are now saying the most optimistic outcome over the winter is another 25k deaths. Worst case is 75k deaths and NHS running out of capacity.

[tyke1962]

Tyke

I'm listening to the scientists, not to the politicians.

The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine have been bang on the money in modelling the spread over 2021. A very good friend of mine is closely involved in that effort and he's one of the sharpest minds I know.

They are now saying the most optimistic outcome over the winter is another 25k deaths. Worst case is 75k deaths and NHS running out of capacity.

Yes Billy and we've heard it all before haven't we ?

Not one of those Nightingale hospitals was ever needed .

Whilst the whole bloody focus on this thing carries on other illnesses go undetected and that's without mentioning mental health .

These people will not take my freedoms away and drip feed me the road to authoritarianism .

I'm totally convinced there's more going on here than perhaps you realise .

I'd also just like to say laws only work with consent from the public , there is no majority consent given last week's events .

[tyke1962]

Just to clarify why I feel so strongly about this and why it may not come across too well especially if people have lost family and close friends to Covid .

I've seen a Police State in this country before in the strike , I've seen what the state is capable of when it has an agenda .

I've seen the Police become the government's paramilitary wing and I've seen people arrested for simply crossing the border in to another county .

I've seen the BBC deliberately frame  Orgreave to suit the government agenda and I'm still waiting for the papers to be released in to the public domain .

I'm not a covid denier or a conspiracy theorist I'm just someone whose lived a life with some previous .

[ravenrover]

Just to clarify why I feel so strongly about this and why it may not come across too well especially if people have lost family and close friends to Covid .

I've seen a Police State in this country before in the strike , I've seen what the state is capable of when it has an agenda .

I've seen the Police become the government's paramilitary wing and I've seen people arrested for simply crossing the border in to another county .

I've seen the BBC deliberately frame  Orgreave to suit the government agenda and I'm still waiting for the papers to be released in to the public domain .

I'm not a covid denier or a conspiracy theorist I'm just someone whose lived a life with some previous .

Crossing the County border, for what purpose?